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The Most Decisive Battle of All TimeArmchair General staff | January 21, 2009 | 16 comments | Print | E-mail The "50 Battles That Shaped Our World" article in the January 2008 issue of Armchair General magazine spawned a basketball-style elimination tournament in the ACG Forums to determine The Most Decisive Battle of All Time. Forum members wanted more than 50 battles to choose from, so they created their own lists of battles from four eras: Ancient, Medieval, Gunpowder and Modern. The complete list of battles that began the tournament appears below. After four voting rounds, the choices came down to the land battle of Saratoga in 1777 and the sea battle Salamis in 480 BC. Saratoga is the singular name used to encompass two related battles of the American Revolution, fought in upper New York 18 days apart: Freeman’s Farm and Bemis Heights. The actions resulted in the surrender of a British army of 9,000 men. Saratoga is often called the turning point of the Revolution, leading ultimately to the establishment of the United States of America. Salamis was fought between the navies of the Greek city-states and Persia in September 480 BC. The underdog Greeks defeated the much larger Persian force, a turning point that eventually led to Greek victory. A different result would have given Persia, rather than Greece, the dominant role in the development of Western civilization at that time. In the fifth and final round of the ACG tournament, the winner was . . . Salamis, by a vote of 47 to 29! If you are not a member of the Armchair General forums and would like to join in the fun, go to http://www.armchairgeneral.com/forums/register.php to register. The instructions will walk you through. It’s a pretty simple process. There is no charge and we don’t spam our members; signup is required to allow us to monitor and maintain proper content. Most Decisive Battle Tournament
Ancient Era Medieval Era [continued on next page] Pages: 1 2Tags: 19th century warfare, 20th-21st century warfare, Ancient-Medieval, Military History, World War I, World War II
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16 Comments to “The Most Decisive Battle of All Time”
Saratoga is now the recipient of an outstanding full-length battle study by a former park historian named John Luzader entitled SARATOGA: A MILITARY HISTORY OF THE DECISIVE CAMPAIGN OF THE AMERICAN REVOLUTION (Savas Beatie 2008). John threw out the fluff, fancy prose, and myths and legends and wrote the book almost entirely from original archival sources (and his extensive knowledge of the ground). It includes numerous original maps, a photographic tour of the field, and numerous appendices on a wide variety of topics.
John, ironically, was also at one of the most decisive battles of the world: He was an Army Ranger on June 6, 1944, fought he way across France–and lived to tell the tale.
You can see more at http://www.savasbeatie.com, and read an interview with Mr. Luzader there.
Thank you.
tps
By Theodore P. Savas on Jan 26, 2009 at 1:33 pm
Tough to look at this list and stop shaking my head. Many of these “battles” were the highpoint of campaigns. These campaigns included many other significant battles. As a military trained observer, the battle that inflicts a sore wound on your enemies empire, depletes it of trained soldiers, and/or changes entire political or religious systems is what I call decisive. Pearl Harbor rid us of 1920 battleships but missed the true priority targets that day. Islandlwana killed 1500 european soldiers (and 1500 native ones) but within 6 months the British Empire crushed the Zulus. The Zulus didn’t inflict a mortal wound on the english nor dissuaded them from continuing to attack. It just gave them something to sing about.
By Bobbo on Jan 26, 2009 at 1:55 pm
I thought that the selection of the modern battles was most interesting particularly since I believe that one of the most decisive battles of World War II was left out. With the destruction of a major percentage of German tanks at the Battle of Kirsk, the Russians finally turned the advantage towards themselves and their superior T-34 tanks.
If the Germans had won this battle, it is very possible that the fight for Russian would have lasted much longer and that Germany many have ultimately defeated Russia (not necessarily a bad thing).
By Joseph on Jan 26, 2009 at 2:00 pm
No, I wouldn’t like to see Kursk on the list. While it was a real turning point, the battle in itself was far from decisive. More of a draw, showing that the Germans no longer had the resouces to conduct a major offensive at one part of the front while still keep the guard up at the rest of the front, while the Soviets now had those resources. Btw the Soviet T34 were becoming slightly obsolete by Kursk. It was outclassed by the new Panther.
Pearl Harbour should defenitely not be on the list. The only way it could have some noticeable impact on the final end of the war would be by not beeing a battle at all (i e if the Japanese had refrained from attacking USA)
I don’t know much about the American war of liberty, but do you really think the British could have held on to America for long even if they had won the battle of Saratoga. Wasn’t the USA in beeing just to big and self sufficient to just be a part of Great Britain in the long run?
By RobertM on Jan 26, 2009 at 3:41 pm
I too agree with the comments about Saratoga. While significant at the time, it was merely the inevitable conclusion to a campaign that was already lost to the British, principally because of French Naval intervention. At the end of tenous supply lines, trying to deal with a guerilla campaign as well as a more conventional one, short of manpower, and with political debate about the utility of the war itself, Saratoga was itself a coda.
By Doug Melville on Jan 26, 2009 at 9:10 pm
I am surprised to see that in the Modern Battles Waterloo is not mentioned. Don’t you think that battle had a major impact on Modern Europe and prevent a resurging dominance of France over Europe?
By Philippe Leroy on Jan 27, 2009 at 9:26 am
I am surprised to see that in the modern time area Waterloo is not mentioned. I think that the battle had a major impact in the shaping od Modern Europe and prevented a resurging dominance by France over Europe
By Philippe Leroy on Jan 27, 2009 at 9:30 am
How about the somme . The end of the British Empire. No more volunteers after that. Tore the heart out of Britain.
By Paul van Kriedt on Feb 4, 2009 at 1:43 am
where will u place the israeli victories in 1948 ,1967 and 1973 yom kippur wars over combined arab nations
By davies oladapo fatunmishe on Feb 6, 2009 at 4:02 am
I would scratch Jutland from World War I and replace it with the Convoy ONS-5 of World War II. The topic here is “decisive” battles. A “decisive” usually means a single, short but pitched battle where both sides throw both their chips onto the table and one walks away the winner.
At Jutland, both sides threw their chips on the table and walked away. At ONS-5, the chips stayed. After ONS-5, the Allies and the Germans both knew that the U-Boat was beaten, and the Atlantic belonged to the US-UK alliance (and it still does to this day!)
By Todd Bandrowsky on Feb 7, 2009 at 12:54 am
What about Cold Harbor? This was a decisive battle in halting Grant’s advance on Richmond. It also changed the face of combat, introducing and proving the effectivness of trench warfare.
By Chris Knott on Feb 10, 2009 at 4:39 pm
I’d say Jutland was definitely the decisive naval conflict of WW1! The German Prisoner assaulted its Royal navy jailor, but stayed in prison IE even though it wasn’t a crushing tactical victory for either it was strategically decisive victory for the Royal Navy in the surface war in WW1.
Convoy ONS-5 is a good point, but I’d say victory in the Battle of the Atlantic was more about long term trends and developments, integrating new technologies and weapons into the allied ASW system rather then a single decisive engagement.
Isn’t it the case that the further back in history a battle is, the more inherently decisive in world history it is? Saratoga has only affected the world for 232 years, Salamis for 2488! The very idea we have a differing conception of an ‘East’ and a ‘West’ comes from this campaign…
By Brad Cohen on Feb 20, 2009 at 10:51 am
as a medeival encounter , I would like to mention ” grunwald ”
this was a major engagement involving the 2 largest and influential european forces at that time –the german knights and the litho-polish coalition.many natioanls were present and the otcome determined a major settlement of political geography-i.e. the control of eastern europe.
By tad on May 5, 2009 at 8:32 pm
I am not saying it was THE most decisive battle of all time, but Manzikert 1071 certainly desrves more credit than it is ever given in Western history classes (forget history classes in the USA… it is never mentioned even in footnotes…). Manzikert was the trigger for the crusades, but more to the point it was the beginning of the inexorable end of the Byzantine Empire… Byzantium never recuperated from the loss of Anatolia and its human resources… Admittedly, the fourth “Crusade” in 1204 gave Constantinople a knock-out blow, but if Manzikert hadn’t crippled the Byzantine Army back in 1071, the history of the Eatsern Empire arguably would have been much different…
By Hernan Reyes on May 28, 2009 at 10:08 am
I agree on the Manzikert observation. Also, do not underestimate the effect of Myrocephalion. This last battle sounded the death knell of the Byzantine Empire. The formidable Byzantine infantry was trapped in a gorge, under the command of their hero worship seeking emperor, and this, about 1280, led to the loss of all the Balkans.
This along with Manzikert led to the destruction of the Byzantine Empire. Only the battle of Lepanto prevented the whole of the Mediterranean become a Turkish sea.
By Nickuru on Jun 21, 2009 at 10:03 am
When considering the single most decisive battle of all time, I would give serious consideration to the Battle of Britain. A German victory in the air campaign and a subsequent successful execution of Operation Sea Lion would have potentially provided Germany vast economic resources. Germany would have ultimately invaded the Soviet Union on much different, more favorable terms with the United States and its major Allies (Canada, Australia, and probably India) facing an even longer, more protracted war of technology and economic attrition against the Axis powers.
By Mark Case on Jul 17, 2009 at 8:04 pm