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Go Back   Armchair General and HistoryNet >> The Best Forums in History > History Library > Alternate Timelines

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Alternate Timelines The great "what if's" of military history.

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  #121  
Old 16 Nov 10, 00:59
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June 6th 1946

Asia

Prime Minister Joseph Chifley orders the Australian 10th Infantry Division to Hong Kong this will act as vanguard of the 1st Australian Army, this deployment will consist 6 Infantry Divisions and 3 Armoured Brigades. While 22 fighter squadrons and 6 medium bomber squadrons of the RAAF ordered to Japan.

America's

Brazil announces their declaration of war on The Soviet Union, while anti-communist demostrations erupt in Mexico/Argentina and Chile.
  #122  
Old 16 Nov 10, 15:41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roddoss72 View Post
June 6th 1946
America's
Brazil announces their declaration of war on The Soviet Union, while anti-communist demostrations erupt in Mexico/Argentina and Chile.
Canada:

By this time the Canadian army will have started to reactivate its divisions, the RCAF will have returned to the UK, and the RCN will have re-established martime control of the North Atlantic convoys. The AVRO plant in Toronto will be returning to wartime production with Lancasters rolling off the line. The Canadian plant that built Mosquitos will do the same. The Commonwealth pilot training program will be restarting again.

The massive Boeing, Ford, GM, Chrysler, Northrop, Grumman etc etc plants all throughout North America will start re-tooling back to wartime production. Mothballed ships, planes and vehicles start coming out of storage.


India:

Same thing: The Indian army begins to reform its divisions and return to wartime economy.

Korea:

There is some possibility of some very interesting activity here. With the USN and USAF severing the supply line to central Russia the communist hold here is very tenuous. The US can probably liberate Korea fairly easily with light forces. IIRC there should be 4 US divisions in Japan on occupation duty.


Russia:

The VVS reports that their stockpiles of aviation gasoline are severely depleted and will have to reduce the pace of operations.

Aviation gasoline was one of the major components of lend lease and the horsepower boost from proper fuel allowed the VVS to be competitive with the luftwaffe during the war. Without these imports the VVS' consumption will rapidly outstrip production.
  #123  
Old 16 Nov 10, 21:49
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Yee gads me thinks I've been hijacked and pirated. Back, back you heathens and usurpers.

Well I guess some folks don't what to be civil and work on what could be a very interesting project.

I suggest again that instead of hijacking this thread you just start your own from the same point. Who knows yours might be better and more appealing.

Anyway, anyone interested in a constructive and collaborative story PM me.

Otherwise from now on only the the Hairog seal of approval will mean that a post is an official and not a hijacked post.
  #124  
Old 16 Nov 10, 21:56
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The Kremlin

Kremlin
Moscow
June 6th, 1946
14:31 hours

Sergey come in and brief me. What have you done with all your scientists and intelligentsia I have given you over the months? Do we have the solutions you promised to counter the American B29?

Yes your Excellency I believe we have. The only question is producing enough of the various weapons systems in time. I'm confident that the systems we have chosen will be able to make our losses bearable and will inflict heavy losses on the Americans and British. Again it is a matter of if we have enough time to produce them in the numbers required to cover enough of our strategic assets.

You let me worry about that. Our spies are feeding us with all the information we need. We will know when and where the large raids are going to be scheduled. This will give the army the time they need to re-base the planes and prepare the positions for the rockets you keep telling me about. To the Capitalist Pigs it will seem as though we have the entire motherland covered with an iron curtain. Everywhere they go the will run into fierce resistance.

I agree Comrade Stalin. If we can forecast where the first few targets of the raids will be we can set the trap. As far as the enemy knows it will be as if we have every possible area covered. If we have a week we can set up everything ahead of time and if our calculations are correct and the tests are accurate we should be able to achieve 30% or more casualty rates. They will not be able to sustain that and will have to cancel their bombing campaign. The key is the NKVD and it agents.

I hope you are right Sergey. We have made a great gamble to secure the motherland for the following generations. If we can convince the Capitalist pigs that we have the means to defend ourselves in the short run from their terror weapons we can then make sure we have the means to defend ourselves forever. They do not have the guts to meet us man to man on the battle field and will try to rely on their bombers to rain death and destruction down on us. They think they can do this with impunity. You, Sergey, have given us the chance to make even this threat too costly.

Thank you comrade Stalin. I am confident that our new weapons will work and will cause the enemy to have pause before they attack us from the skies.

One more thing Sergey, The British are planning a limited bombing raid in two weeks and we know the target. We will let this raid proceed without spoiling the surprise. We will let our conventional forces intercept the British bombers. We will save the big surprise for the arrogant Americans who think that their Super Fortress is unstoppable. From what I have been told you have used your time wisely and have made great use of the 3 B29 bombers that dropped into our laps.

Thank you comrade. We will not let the motherland be destroyed by the Capitalist terror weapons.
  #125  
Old 16 Nov 10, 22:44
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June 6:

STRAVKA reports to Stalin that the B-29's that struck Khbarovsk from Japan have flown out of Japan to an unknown destination. Soviet spys in Japan have no idea where these aircaft have left for.
There has been a significant number of C-69 and C-54 transport flights into and out of Japan in the last few days also.

June 7

An estimated 50 B-29 bombers strike Ikrutsk near L. Bakal. The planes arrived over the city shortly after sunrise and bombed from an average estimated altitude of 1000 to 1500 meters at most.
They destroyed much of the railyards and also did heavy damage to the Ikrutsk hydroelectric generation station (600 MW). The destruction of the hydroelectric plant has left most of the city without power and most factories in the area are powerless. Rail service will be restored to a minimal level within 2 or 3 days. It will take a couple of months to restore full service.
It will be weeks before anything close to even half power will be restored.
There was no air defense warning as there was no radar in place. Manned observation posts reported seeing and hearing nothing. Several observers were court martialled for severe drunkeness and shot as examples of dereliction of duty.
There were no antiaircraft batteries deployed in the area so the bombers left unscathed.
It is assumed that they flew in from China using one of the airfields built there during WW 2 for them.

It is recommended that a large number of antiaircraft batteries and interceptor squadrons begin to deploy East into Siberia and Central Russia as it is likely that more attacks will follow.
Stravka also thinks that these attacks on the Trans-Siberian railway are a prelude to a more serious land offensive from the Pacific and China by enemy forces.
  #126  
Old 16 Nov 10, 23:15
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June 6th

I order that all unauthorized attacks on the Soviet Union cease immediately STOP

Plan Griddle is to be implemented which means a Europe first strategy STOP

Any more unauthorized attacks and wasteful adventures will be deal with harshly STOP

The Joint Chiefs of Staff have decided to concentrate our forces on Western Europe STOP

The latest actions have placed the JCS Plan Griddle in grave jeopardy STOP

Cease and desist all operations in the Pacific immediately or face Courts Martial STOP

TRUMAN
  #127  
Old 16 Nov 10, 23:29
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I told you to watch your back door.

I told you fuel would soon be depleted.

I told you to reconsider your move against Europe.

You arrogantly chose not to listen.

You shall now burn.
___
GOD
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  #128  
Old 16 Nov 10, 23:55
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Ha!
  #129  
Old 17 Nov 10, 06:07
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I'm actually what you'd call a Biology Major, I just have some respect for my native language.

However, one major miscalculation;

Finland, Poland, Romania and quite a few others aren't too happy with Uncle Joe's conduct and seize an opportunity that may never come again.

As the Finns strike at Leningrad, the citizens of other satellite states, often armed and trained by the Soviets themselves, attack their oppressors.

Cossacks, avenging the murder of their comrades after WW2 attack supply lines and cut communications and Stalin finds himself attacked from within and without.

In the Far East, bolstered by the US and with surplus US weapons, the Chinese and Japanese unite against a common enemy.
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Last edited by the ace; 17 Nov 10 at 06:10..
  #130  
Old 17 Nov 10, 07:12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the ace View Post
I'm actually what you'd call a Biology Major, I just have some respect for my native language.

However, one major miscalculation;

Finland, Poland, Romania and quite a few others aren't too happy with Uncle Joe's conduct and seize an opportunity that may never come again.

As the Finns strike at Leningrad, the citizens of other satellite states, often armed and trained by the Soviets themselves, attack their oppressors.

Cossacks, avenging the murder of their comrades after WW2 attack supply lines and cut communications and Stalin finds himself attacked from within and without.

In the Far East, bolstered by the US and with surplus US weapons, the Chinese and Japanese unite against a common enemy.
As for this, it can't happen. Lets look at you scenario shall we.

Finland isn't in a position to act unilaterally as it does not have sufficient forces to defeat the Leningrad Military District.

Poland is a shell of a country, besides many Poles have welcomed the Soviets as Liberators and at the time The Soviets were only interested in Germans. So Poland is out.

Cossack couldn't do what you suggest, in 1946 they were being sytematically being slaughtered by Stalin's pograms of Cossacks and other minority groups that allied themselves with Germany.

China and Japan forming an alliance, not after what Japan did to China, millions and millions killed and then to act as allies no so my dear friend.

Japanese forces stay out of this.
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  #131  
Old 17 Nov 10, 07:18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hairog View Post
June 6th

I order that all unauthorized attacks on the Soviet Union cease immediately STOP

Plan Griddle is to be implemented which means a Europe first strategy STOP

Any more unauthorized attacks and wasteful adventures will be deal with harshly STOP

The Joint Chiefs of Staff have decided to concentrate our forces on Western Europe STOP

The latest actions have placed the JCS Plan Griddle in grave jeopardy STOP

Cease and desist all operations in the Pacific immediately or face Courts Martial STOP

TRUMAN
I don't mean to be rude, but if you post a scenario here and expect that it wont be so called "Hijacked" then you are sadly mistaken. A little bit of advice, go with the flow. Be flexible and modify your scenario accordingly, i have learned the hard way, i used to chuck large hissy fits because someone had hijacked a scenario, i had the attitute of "My Thread, My Rules" and i became a joke, chucking hissy fit after another.
  #132  
Old 17 Nov 10, 07:34
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Quote:
As the Finns strike at Leningrad, the citizens of other satellite states, often armed and trained by the Soviets themselves, attack their oppressors.
I don't know about the Finns but, the I already mentioned that the Poles, Hungarians, and Czechs all have internal revolts going on, particularly the Poles where their military is split heavily between units that fought in the West and ones that fought for Russia. With that revolt going on and the Polish rail net shut down due to a worker's strike the Red Army in Germany isn't getting squat for supplies at the moment.
The Hungarian and Czech revolts would make it nearly impossible for the Red Army to operate in Southern Germany against the US and French. So, these forces largely escape being smashed and instead fall back largely intact in the face of the Russian onslaught.

Then there is Yugoslavia.... They go neutral along with Romania, Bulgaria and, Albania. That leaves out taking Greece or Italy. So, the Western Forces can mass their air forces in Italy (the US staging through North Africa from the US as in WW 2) and then fly missions against the Russians over the Alps with little expectation of retaliation and almost no chance of being overrun.

At the same time the RAF and then US start using Norway as a base for airstrikes against targets like Leningrad and Murmansk. The Soviet Artic fleet is now in real danger of being destroyed. This means that even the chance of any sort of.... however mediocre it might be given the pathetic record of Soviet sub operations....Guerre de Course against the West using subs is diminishing by the day.

Then there is Siberia and the Pacific.....
  #133  
Old 17 Nov 10, 08:20
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Also lets not forget all those Germans in POW camps that have yet to be repatriated, i would thing that there would still be several million in captivity, and as for the high ranking genrals and Nazi Party members would still be usefull as this senario would negate the Nurnberg War Crimes trials.

I think expediency would advocate amnesty to all those mentioned above.
  #134  
Old 17 Nov 10, 10:19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hairog View Post
Otherwise from now on only the the Hairog seal of approval will mean that a post is an official and not a hijacked post.
Grow up. People are just pointing out stuff you may not know.

The harsh reality is that even with your Sergey, the Soviet Union of 1946 would be totally screwed in a war against the rest of the world. They would take western Europe, but would be savaged by the strategic air arms of the western powers. They lose the long war, no question about it. Some of the indicators that that would be the case would come quickly. Things like T.A.Gardener's B29 raids would have been highly likely.

If you want to invoke Truman ... he would have nuked Moscow by now.
  #135  
Old 17 Nov 10, 10:37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AdrianE View Post
Grow up. People are just pointing out stuff you may not know.

The harsh reality is that even with your Sergey, the Soviet Union of 1946 would be totally screwed in a war against the rest of the world. They would take western Europe, but would be savaged by the strategic air arms of the western powers. They lose the long war, no question about it. Some of the indicators that that would be the case would come quickly. Things like T.A.Gardener's B29 raids would have been highly likely.

If you want to invoke Truman ... he would have nuked Moscow by now.
The folks who want to go their own way just go ahead. If you want a logical storyline based on what the JCS saw at the time and based on facts and not opinions then follow the Hairog posts.

If you want to follow the other story lines just go right ahead. Again if anyone really wants to work in a collaborative effort let me know or start you own thread.

I personally will be ignoring all hijacking type posts myself and I really do need constructive help with this project. Many of you have very good information that could really be useful.

If you want to have a coherent, unique and I believe entertaining alternative history time line follow the official posts and ignore the hijacking attempts which appear to be going the usual boring direction that probably is the true path of history but this is alternative history and not just a recreation of what really would have happened.

Hopefully the official time line will be full of logical twists and turns that could have happened and not just a rehash of what probably would have happened.
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