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  #16  
Old 01 Mar 10, 13:43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Golani View Post
Well, either ARMA or VBS, unless they are refering to soldiers who buy it for their own fun

I mean, I'm currently serving in the National Training Center, if I haven't seen it by now I find it hard to believe it is used by the IDF (unless it's been used by a secret black ops. unit which I find hard to believe) but anyway I'll try to dig up some info on it, might be interesting...


I guess they have their share of incoming $ from the world militaries that they just don't deem it worth all the hassle of selling in the civilian world too.
If it was worth their time they wouldn't make finding sells info on it such a project (unless they want to run some background tests on the buyers) let alone price tag it at about a month worth of salary....

"We gave you ARMA, now shut up".




Sounds like fun although a bit pointless.

One of my main issues with ARMA (mainly 2 but 1 as well) is the commaned system.

I enjoy the game a lot more as a simple grant rather then a commander, it is just to complicated to control.

It's ashame that ALL of the campaign and most of the single missions (community made also) are of you as a unit commander.
How is that pointless?! Survival...with teamwork...sounds pretty nice to me...
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  #17  
Old 01 Mar 10, 19:19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Golani View Post
One of my main issues with ARMA (mainly 2 but 1 as well) is the commaned system.

I enjoy the game a lot more as a simple grunt rather then a commander, it is just to complicated to control.

It's ashame that ALL of the campaign and most of the single missions (community made also) are of you as a unit commander.
I sort of agree with this. I find that the command system, along with the friendly AI, leaves much to be desired. It becomes such a micro-management hassle that, as of late, I only create missions where it's just me or me and one or two other guys at most. Otherwise, I spend more time doing finger gymnastics to keep everyone on a short leash...and usually wind up getting killed because I am so distracted.

ArmA II definitely comes across as a bit too ambitious as times in that regard.
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  #18  
Old 01 Mar 10, 19:29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wargamer Scott View Post
I sort of agree with this. I find that the command system, along with the friendly AI, leaves much to be desired. It becomes such a micro-management hassle that, as of late, I only create missions where it's just me or me and one or two other guys at most. Otherwise, I spend more time doing finger gymnastics to keep everyone on a short leash...and usually wind up getting killed because I am so distracted.

ArmA II definitely comes across as a bit too ambitious as times in that regard.
True, if you have a game with tons of people, before hand you would need to have dedicated commanders stay in a humvee at the base, or as I think is better-do it Patton style and get driven near the front, and keep people on a leash there, or get flown around in a helicopter...but then...will someone really want to just chauffeur the command around all game when they could be infiltrating a team as part of an operation to take a town? .

Who knows, some people might be ok with doing that (commanding), but yeah, it's more fun when you have a team with you and just do your job.
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  #19  
Old 01 Mar 10, 20:22
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Of course, there's always the fog of war, and the occasional "stupidity of war" where somebody on your team does something unexpected, stupid, dangerous or ill-timed. That's realism.

I just ordered my copy of ARMA online and will have more to say about this in a few weeks. Lock and load.
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  #20  
Old 01 Mar 10, 23:05
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Golani
Well, either ARMA or VBS, unless they are refering to soldiers who buy it for their own fun

I mean, I'm currently serving in the National Training Center, if I haven't seen it by now I find it hard to believe it is used by the IDF (unless it's been used by a secret black ops. unit which I find hard to believe) but anyway I'll try to dig up some info on it, might be interesting...
Well there isn't any mention of the IDF still using it, as they only mentioned VBS1 perhaps they have moved on and no longer use either version?
If you find out, be sure to let us know .

Quote:
Originally Posted by Golani
"We gave you ARMA, now shut up"
Yep i would say this sums it up nicely.
Also, you may be right with regards to the testing on public consumers - As we were given the new engine first (with Arma 1 and 2) they may be wanting us to figure out the issues before they release it to the militaries. Not a bad idea really, i would say the reaction to a buggy game from the public isn't as damaging to their name as releasing a buggy product to one of the big military organisations would be.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Golani
Sounds like fun although a bit pointless.

I enjoy the game a lot more as a simple grunt rather then a commander, it is just to complicated to control.
With every post i realise we have very similar tastes when it comes to gaming.
I actually feel the same about the command system, which is why this mission is so appealing. It's too time consuming to babysit your fellow soldiers, much easier to just get down to business.

Anyway, back onto that mission - I'll try to explain again, but the important part to remember is, team work isn't necessary.
You start as just an individual soldier, but are placed in an area where men from your side (whether it's USMC, Chedaki, CDF etc..) are fighting the enemy (again, any faction).
You're given the option of linking up with the AI if you get within 50m of them, but as it's hard enough to look after yourself, i wouldn't recommend bothering with it.

What i usually do is stay solo and just move from battle to battle on my own, maybe switching gear with a fallen friend (or foe) or maybe jump into a car and drive to a nearby town for a change of scenery, and more fighting.
You don't need to issue any orders, or even care about your allies - They will constantly spawn as will the enemy and generally ignore you and focus on the battle at hand.
It's just basically a dynamic battle which follows you around.

Just briefly, there are a few SP based missions i've found that let you play as a simple grunt, being told where to go and only having to focus on surviving and killing the enemy in your way.
The link below contains 5 (with 4 being part of a mini sort of campaign) SP missions made by someone else who prefers to play as a grunt and not bother with issuing commands.
They also require no mods.
http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?t=93485


Sorry..I've really got to learn to cut down my stupidly long posts...
So to avoid going on and on even more, i'll quickly say i agree with everything else that has been said with regards to the AI and issuing orders, and because it feels like such a chore i'm constantly on the lookout for SP missions with little to no babysitting of other squad mates.
If i find anymore i'll let you all know.
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  #21  
Old 01 Mar 10, 23:59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nokturnal View Post
Well there isn't any mention of the IDF still using it, as they only mentioned VBS1 perhaps they have moved on and no longer use either version?
If you find out, be sure to let us know .


Yep i would say this sums it up nicely.
Also, you may be right with regards to the testing on public consumers - As we were given the new engine first (with Arma 1 and 2) they may be wanting us to figure out the issues before they release it to the militaries. Not a bad idea really, i would say the reaction to a buggy game from the public isn't as damaging to their name as releasing a buggy product to one of the big military organisations would be.


With every post i realise we have very similar tastes when it comes to gaming.
I actually feel the same about the command system, which is why this mission is so appealing. It's too time consuming to babysit your fellow soldiers, much easier to just get down to business.

Anyway, back onto that mission - I'll try to explain again, but the important part to remember is, team work isn't necessary.
You start as just an individual soldier, but are placed in an area where men from your side (whether it's USMC, Chedaki, CDF etc..) are fighting the enemy (again, any faction).
You're given the option of linking up with the AI if you get within 50m of them, but as it's hard enough to look after yourself, i wouldn't recommend bothering with it.

What i usually do is stay solo and just move from battle to battle on my own, maybe switching gear with a fallen friend (or foe) or maybe jump into a car and drive to a nearby town for a change of scenery, and more fighting.
You don't need to issue any orders, or even care about your allies - They will constantly spawn as will the enemy and generally ignore you and focus on the battle at hand.
It's just basically a dynamic battle which follows you around.

Just briefly, there are a few SP based missions i've found that let you play as a simple grunt, being told where to go and only having to focus on surviving and killing the enemy in your way.
The link below contains 5 (with 4 being part of a mini sort of campaign) SP missions made by someone else who prefers to play as a grunt and not bother with issuing commands.
They also require no mods.
http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?t=93485


Sorry..I've really got to learn to cut down my stupidly long posts...
So to avoid going on and on even more, i'll quickly say i agree with everything else that has been said with regards to the AI and issuing orders, and because it feels like such a chore i'm constantly on the lookout for SP missions with little to no babysitting of other squad mates.
If i find anymore i'll let you all know.
Hey, about the last part...it's ok man, they, nor you, are not stupid-they're informative. If you didn't post that long post I wouldn't have known about what you had to share!
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  #22  
Old 02 Mar 10, 09:16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nokturnal View Post
Well there isn't any mention of the IDF still using it, as they only mentioned VBS1 perhaps they have moved on and no longer use either version?
I guess you don't know the IDF then...

If it was out in what? '02?
We'll be using it until 2050, all you need is some duck tape...

Quote:
Yep i would say this sums it up nicely.
Also, you may be right with regards to the testing on public consumers - As we were given the new engine first (with Arma 1 and 2) they may be wanting us to figure out the issues before they release it to the militaries. Not a bad idea really, i would say the reaction to a buggy game from the public isn't as damaging to their name as releasing a buggy product to one of the big military organisations would be.
Yes, civilians are usually less armed then militaries...

Quote:
With every post i realise we have very similar tastes when it comes to gaming.
I actually feel the same about the command system, which is why this mission is so appealing. It's too time consuming to babysit your fellow soldiers, much easier to just get down to business.

Anyway, back onto that mission - I'll try to explain again, but the important part to remember is, team work isn't necessary.
You start as just an individual soldier, but are placed in an area where men from your side (whether it's USMC, Chedaki, CDF etc..) are fighting the enemy (again, any faction).
You're given the option of linking up with the AI if you get within 50m of them, but as it's hard enough to look after yourself, i wouldn't recommend bothering with it.

What i usually do is stay solo and just move from battle to battle on my own, maybe switching gear with a fallen friend (or foe) or maybe jump into a car and drive to a nearby town for a change of scenery, and more fighting.
You don't need to issue any orders, or even care about your allies - They will constantly spawn as will the enemy and generally ignore you and focus on the battle at hand.
It's just basically a dynamic battle which follows you around.

Just briefly, there are a few SP based missions i've found that let you play as a simple grunt, being told where to go and only having to focus on surviving and killing the enemy in your way.
The link below contains 5 (with 4 being part of a mini sort of campaign) SP missions made by someone else who prefers to play as a grunt and not bother with issuing commands.
They also require no mods.
http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?t=93485


Sorry..I've really got to learn to cut down my stupidly long posts...
So to avoid going on and on even more, i'll quickly say i agree with everything else that has been said with regards to the AI and issuing orders, and because it feels like such a chore i'm constantly on the lookout for SP missions with little to no babysitting of other squad mates.
If i find anymore i'll let you all know.
A long post that's full of informative data is a good post!

I'll be checking those out when I get the time.

And I'm waiting for updates on more SP missions (a campaign could be nice) for a simple grunt.

Thanks mate!
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  #23  
Old 02 Mar 10, 20:03
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Super Six 4
Hey, about the last part...it's ok man, they, nor you, are not stupid-they're informative. If you didn't post that long post I wouldn't have known about what you had to share!
Happy to help Though i still have to figure out how to get my point across without ranting.
If you've seen my posts about Dragon Rising and Arma in the other thread(s), you will see that my posts often seem more like essays. But i'm glad they still contain useful information.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Golani
I guess you don't know the IDF then...

If it was out in what? '02?
We'll be using it until 2050, all you need is some duck tape...
Hahah, nice one.
Makes sense though - If it ain't broke, don't fix it. If they were able to get the training they wanted out of it, there may not be any reason to upgrade to VBS2.

I've done a few google searches to try determine if they're still using it, found a few articles regarding the IDF using "a simulator" prior to an engagement or in preparation for a possible battle/war, but they never mention the name.

Maybe you could just say you want to continue your training from home, and ask if they have any tools/programs which can assist.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Golani
And I'm waiting for updates on more SP missions (a campaign could be nice) for a simple grunt.
I actually found another last night, it's quite short but the outro seems to indicate that the creator plans on making more. (let's just hope he sticks to the simple grunt type of missions)
http://armaholic.com/page.php?id=9720

Here is another "quick action" type mission i remember playing a few times.
http://armaholic.com/page.php?id=6146
Once again, you're just a private following your leader and squad from battle to battle, this time being transported (and supported) by an APC.
You can customize your APC, soldier class, enemy side and numbers, also time of day and whether or not you want reinforcements.
After each engagement you are given the menu to set up the next round, so you can slowly progress from a weak enemy to being outnumbered.


I'll have another look at the missions i've already played through tonight - I seem to recall a few had only a couple of AI units to watch over, can still be a hassle, but much more playable than those which require you to command an entire squad of 8+.
One day i'll have to figure out how to make my own missions. There really aren't enough that let the player have a smaller role as just a grunt.

Last edited by Nokturnal; 02 Mar 10 at 20:10..
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  #24  
Old 03 Mar 10, 02:49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nokturnal View Post
I've done a few google searches to try determine if they're still using it, found a few articles regarding the IDF using "a simulator" prior to an engagement or in preparation for a possible battle/war, but they never mention the name.
Of course we use Simulators, I just haven't bumped into anything commercial let alone VBS.

But just thinking about it I was reminded where I did bump into something that resembled OFP (I saw it in '05), it was in an exhibition (just prior to my enlistment), I have a friend that serves in this unit nowadays, I'll try to drain some info from him.

Quote:
I actually found another last night, it's quite short but the outro seems to indicate that the creator plans on making more. (let's just hope he sticks to the simple grunt type of missions)
http://armaholic.com/page.php?id=9720

Here is another "quick action" type mission i remember playing a few times.
http://armaholic.com/page.php?id=6146
Once again, you're just a private following your leader and squad from battle to battle, this time being transported (and supported) by an APC.
You can customize your APC, soldier class, enemy side and numbers, also time of day and whether or not you want reinforcements.
After each engagement you are given the menu to set up the next round, so you can slowly progress from a weak enemy to being outnumbered.
Added to my list.

Any more updates will be welcomed

Quote:
One day i'll have to figure out how to make my own missions. There really aren't enough that let the player have a smaller role as just a grunt.
That would be the day!

I'm still waiting for Mackie's missions for VBS Lite
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  #25  
Old 03 Mar 10, 03:24
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Hey guys, not that you've been abusing it at all anymore, but just want to remind you that if you want to talk about VBS (which sounds great btw), just make a thread for it.

Thanks!
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Old 03 Mar 10, 07:06
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Super Six 4
Hey guys, not that you've been abusing it at all anymore, but just want to remind you that if you want to talk about VBS (which sounds great btw), just make a thread for it.
No worries mate, there is actually already such a thread - But, funnily enough, we started talking about Arma2 in there...

Golani - I'll reply to your other comments back in the VBS2 JCOVE thread - http://www.armchairgeneral.com/forum...t=88850&page=2

Quote:
Originally Posted by Golani
Any more updates will be welcomed
I've had a look through the missions i've got and only found one other solo or non-leader type mission.
Cipher - http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=6789

This is another dynamic mission with various options at the start. But this is more story focused.
Upon starting you can choose to play it solo, or as a squad of 2, 4, 6, 8 or 10, also change the time/difficulty/transport at insertion point.

It was one of the first missions i downloaded so i can't quite remember it, but it fits the requirements.

Last edited by Nokturnal; 03 Mar 10 at 07:09..
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  #27  
Old 05 Mar 10, 06:21
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Well,

I just happened to stumble by a used game sale on the web and discovered there was an expansion for ARMA! (please don't stone me!)

"Queens Gambit" I think?

Anyone has any impression of it?
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  #28  
Old 05 Mar 10, 11:30
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QG adds a couple of campaigns which I never played to be honest but I heard they were far better than the original campaign in ArmA which was pretty average bordering on bad.

It also adds a few units such as technicals and partisans. It adds a lot more stuff like objects and animations (for ingame cutscenes) which a lot of community made maps, mods, addons, campaigns and missions made use of. Like the maps Avgani and Afghan Village, for example.

It is not like the Resistance expansion pack (which updated the OFP engine) but it's still good enough and if you intend on playing with any user made stuff it's almost essential.
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Old 05 Mar 10, 21:38
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Originally Posted by Mackie View Post
QG adds a couple of campaigns which I never played to be honest but I heard they were far better than the original campaign in ArmA which was pretty average bordering on bad.

It also adds a few units such as technicals and partisans. It adds a lot more stuff like objects and animations (for ingame cutscenes) which a lot of community made maps, mods, addons, campaigns and missions made use of. Like the maps Avgani and Afghan Village, for example.

It is not like the Resistance expansion pack (which updated the OFP engine) but it's still good enough and if you intend on playing with any user made stuff it's almost essential.
About partisans and technicals and stuff-I think I saw a video on youtube that was well made, imitating Super Six 1 or Super Six 4 crash site-and lots of civilians intertwined with dudes with AK-47s were all running towards the crashed Black Hawk, and it was just like the movie, but done in ArmA...I think the QG version.
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Old 06 Mar 10, 13:44
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Originally Posted by Super Six 4 View Post
About partisans and technicals and stuff-I think I saw a video on youtube that was well made, imitating Super Six 1 or Super Six 4 crash site-and lots of civilians intertwined with dudes with AK-47s were all running towards the crashed Black Hawk, and it was just like the movie, but done in ArmA...I think the QG version.
Yeah, the guy who made that did two BHD style films. One that was done before QG was released and one after.



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