HistoryNet.com RSS
ArmchairGeneral.com RSS

HistoryNet.com Articles
America's Civil War
American History
Aviation History
British Heritage
Civil War Times
MHQ
Military History
Vietnam
Wild West
World War II

ACG Online
ACG Magazine
Stuff We Like
War College
History News
Tactics 101
Carlo D'Este
Books

ACG Gaming
Boardgames
PC Game Reviews

ACG Network
Contact Us
Our Newsletter
Meet Our Staff
Advertise With Us

Sites We Support
HistoryNet.com
Once A Marine
The Art of Battle
Game Squad
Mil. History Podcast
Russian Army - WW2
Achtung Panzer!
Mil History Online

Go Back   Armchair General and HistoryNet >> The Best Forums in History > Historical Events & Eras > Vietnam War

Notices and Announcements

Vietnam War The Battle for Vietnam. .

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 18 Feb 10, 21:53
lirelou's Avatar
lirelou lirelou is offline
Lieutenant General
United_States
5 Year Service Ribbon 
 
Real Name: Shaun M. Darragh
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Lutz
Posts: 3,910
lirelou is simply cracking [600]
lirelou is simply cracking [600] lirelou is simply cracking [600] lirelou is simply cracking [600] lirelou is simply cracking [600] lirelou is simply cracking [600] lirelou is simply cracking [600] lirelou is simply cracking [600] lirelou is simply cracking [600] lirelou is simply cracking [600] lirelou is simply cracking [600] lirelou is simply cracking [600]
Is the Vietnam War dead as an 'issue'

The link below is from an article on the SDS takeover of Columbia University, and the burning of a professor's years of accumulated papers. It was published in the Chronicle for Higher Education, and the remarks in the comments section are well worth reading. They demonstrate that the Vietnam War still divides this country, and sparks visceral reactions. The ignorance about Vietnam from those on the left is appalling. (Vietnam is the size of New Jersey, millions of Vietnamese were murdered by American forces, more bombs dropped than in all theaters of WWII, tens of thousands of babies napalmed, etc, etc.) But there are a few interesting comments from both sides. More to the point, many making these observations are professors and teachers. That is perhaps the most depressing aspect of their comments.

http://chronicle.com/article/The-Nig...-Ranums/64115/
__________________
dit: Lirelou

Phong trần mi một lưỡi gươm, Những loi gi o ti cơm s g!
Reply With Quote
Facebook Connect and Magazine Promotions

World War II Magazine
$26.95

Armchair General Magazine
$26.95
Military History Magazine
$26.95
  #2  
Old 18 Feb 10, 22:25
RichardS's Avatar
RichardS RichardS is offline
ACG Forums - Air Marshal
South_Vietnam
March Offensive 100 Greatest Generals, 2008 5 Year Service Ribbon Distinguished Service Award 
Summer Campaign Most Decisive Battle Campaign, 2008 Greatest Spy Movies Campaign Greatest Blunders Campaign 
Best Pin-Up Of World War II Greatest/Best Tank of WW2 Campaign 
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Coming to a theater near you.
Posts: 15,617
RichardS has achieved enlightenment [1200+] RichardS has achieved enlightenment [1200+] RichardS has achieved enlightenment [1200+] RichardS has achieved enlightenment [1200+] RichardS has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
RichardS has achieved enlightenment [1200+] RichardS has achieved enlightenment [1200+] RichardS has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
I don't think Vietnam will ever be a dead issue for those who were directly impacted by the events of the war. By that I mean those in the US Military and their kin and those in Vietnam, Thailand, Cambodia and Laos. For those who the war was a political issue than yeah, I think it is dead and forgotten. But I'll never forgive Hanoi Jane and my dad hated her till he died.

__________________
Eagles may fly; but weasels aren't sucked into jet engines!

"I'm not expendable; I'm not stupid and I'm not going." - Kerr Avon, Blake's 7
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 18 Feb 10, 22:26
Sgt. Rock's Avatar
Sgt. Rock Sgt. Rock is offline
Lieutenant General
United_States
100 Greatest Generals, 2008 5 Year Service Ribbon Most Decisive Battle Campaign, 2008 Greatest Westerns Campaign 
Greatest Blunders Campaign Best Pin-Up Of World War II 
 
Real Name: William B. Williams
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Melonville
Posts: 3,723
Sgt. Rock gives and gets respect [800]
Sgt. Rock gives and gets respect [800] Sgt. Rock gives and gets respect [800] Sgt. Rock gives and gets respect [800] Sgt. Rock gives and gets respect [800] Sgt. Rock gives and gets respect [800] Sgt. Rock gives and gets respect [800] Sgt. Rock gives and gets respect [800] Sgt. Rock gives and gets respect [800] Sgt. Rock gives and gets respect [800] Sgt. Rock gives and gets respect [800] Sgt. Rock gives and gets respect [800] Sgt. Rock gives and gets respect [800] Sgt. Rock gives and gets respect [800] Sgt. Rock gives and gets respect [800] Sgt. Rock gives and gets respect [800]
Interesting link espcially since the professor said he was sympathetic to the protester's cause. Also the part about the protesters wanting to get the police involved just to gain sympathy for their cause was interesting.

I'm not a Vietnam Vet, but my dad is and I grew up on military posts. Most of my friend's dads were Vietnam Vets as well. These were dads I knew well, and many of my sports coaches were Vietnam Vets. When I was in high school one of my friends went to DC on a high school trip. His dad had been killed in Vietnam and his mom had married another soldier. He did a rubbing of his dad's name. That really made a lasting impression on me. Vietnam really wasn't talked about too much by my dad, and occasionaly my friend's dads would talk about experiences, but not too much. I remember I also had a friend whose dad was on the cover of "Newsweek" or "Time" and there are about 4 soldiers jumping out of a helicopter. I think I saw that same picture on the cover of a Vietnam video game. His dad had it downstairs in his basement, probably something he never looked at too much.

Once I got off military posts and started seeing how Vietnam Vets were stereotyped it infuriated me. My dad was a good father to me and my siblings, he was a good husband to my mother before she passed away. He was not a drug addict or alcoholic, he didn't abuse us, he wasn't having flashbacks every 10 minutes, and once he left the military he was a very valuable member of the state of Colorado. We've kept in touch with many of our old friends and their dads have also become very valuable members of society once leaving the military. These were men who I admired very much and it infuriates me that people have stereotyped them in a negative light.
These men were also not sitting around hoping the Soviets and the Americans would go to war either, which also seems to be a stereotype of soldiers from the Cold War.

So after all these years, I still have strong feelings about a war that I didn't fight in, but I admit I don't have patience for people saying bad things or implying bad things about Vietnam Vets, and I also care deeply for the people of S. Vietnam. One of the things my dad made clear to me that when he was there, he said the majority of people from S. Vietnam did not want Communism.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 18 Feb 10, 23:42
Miss Saigon's Avatar
Miss Saigon Miss Saigon is offline
General of the Forums - Donut Dolly
South_Vietnam
100 Greatest Generals, 2008 Distinguished Service Award 5 Year Service Ribbon Summer Campaign 
Most Decisive Battle Campaign, 2008 Greatest Westerns Campaign Greatest Spy Movies Campaign 
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: FSB Austin
Posts: 13,475
Miss Saigon has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Miss Saigon has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Miss Saigon has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Miss Saigon has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Miss Saigon has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Miss Saigon has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Miss Saigon has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Miss Saigon has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Miss Saigon has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Miss Saigon has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Miss Saigon has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Miss Saigon has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Miss Saigon has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Miss Saigon has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Miss Saigon has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Miss Saigon has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Miss Saigon has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Miss Saigon has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
When I first entered Unversity many years ago I was in awe of the establishment and of the professors. I believed that something about working for that doctorate and getting that position made professors something of a special class deserving of respect and esteem. Time and experience has disabused me of all such notions. I could tell you stories about corrupt and unethical academics. There is nothing special about them. Getting that doctorate and position does nothing to cull out human frailties, inadequacies, and even criminal tendencies. Professors are like any other people. There are some very good ones, some loathsomely bad ones, and a whole lot of mediocre ones.

I have seen women ignore the data in their own research because it conflicted with their beliefs. Too many professors I believe cook their research these days for political reasons. I have seen both men and women use their positions to go on power trips and act like martinets to try to disguise their own inadequacies. I have also seen them use their position to justify expensive travel that was really for their own enjoyment. And of course there is the old favorite that everyone knows about but no one talks about and those are the ones who use the position for sex.

I used to scoff at uneducated people who made the joke that PhD means Piled Higher and Deeper. Now I realize that in many cases this is a useful characterization.

There are some professors who have made a profound difference in my life. People whom I adore and will forever respect. People who have taught me so much and impacted my life in significant ways. Unfortunately they are a minority. There are also those who made me bitter about the whole academic game for a variety of reasons. Unfortunately they were a little too common for my preferences. This dichotomy has caused me to learn to both love and hate the academic environment.

Men in uniform aren't perfect either. But there is something about a person who puts on a uniform and takes a stand for something outside of a comfortable sinecure that seems more concrete to me.

As for Vietnam. Most academics were/are just plain wrong about so many aspects of the war or are very gullible about it. So how smart can they be?
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 19 Feb 10, 01:21
Andy_S's Avatar
Andy_S Andy_S is offline
Lieutenant Colonel
Korea
5 Year Service Ribbon 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Seoul
Posts: 1,343
Andy_S has demonstrated strength of character [100] Andy_S has demonstrated strength of character [100] Andy_S has demonstrated strength of character [100] Andy_S has demonstrated strength of character [100] Andy_S has demonstrated strength of character [100] Andy_S has demonstrated strength of character [100] Andy_S has demonstrated strength of character [100] Andy_S has demonstrated strength of character [100] Andy_S has demonstrated strength of character [100] Andy_S has demonstrated strength of character [100] Andy_S has demonstrated strength of character [100]
In a number of areas, I think Vietnam is, indeed, a dead issue.

Post-Nam fear of use military force:
Reagan weaned America off its post-Vietnam horror of deploying forces overseas by picking his wars pretty carefully, with a clear win and an exit strategy (Grenada and Panama). The gradual escalation of putting American servicemen in harm's way was continued by by the Bush dynasty with Gulf I, then dramatcially increased by Bush Mark II. The post-Vietnam era of putting men in line of fire has evaporated totally to the point where I would say that there has not been enough strategic thinking going on, particulary as it related to occupation policy in Iraq, and realistic exit timetables and conditions for Afghan.

Morale of Armed Forces:
Seems to me that the weak and demoralized US military of the 1970s and early 80s has been replaced by a pro, tough, combat hardened and extremely well equipped force - arguably the finest the US has ever put in the field. IME, UK troops in the 1980s used to laugh at the US military - now they treat them with reverence. Moreover, the boys seem pretty popular with the public at large. So that Vietnam legacy has gone.

Anti-Armed Forces Sentiment:
I certainly don't see any Fonda-style celebs coming out against the troops, though there are a number who are against the war. Abu Ghraib (to be fair, a pretty tame affair compared to My Lai) proved a hiccup, not a turning point.

Representation in Popular Culture
As late as the 1980s in the UK, bookshops were full of some pretty good Vietnam lit (Caputor, Herr, Webb, etc). And there were some very good films (although I know many on here do not rate them as accurate): Full Metal Jacket, Platoon, et al - plus some dire ones - Chuck, Sly and their silly ilk. But this phenomenum has passed. I don't see much or any new Nam-related books appearing, and the Vietnam film seems to be going the way of the Western.

OTOH...

Counterinsurgency
With an American-led multinational force now engaged in the fiercest COIN ops since Vietnam, the old lessons and mistakes are being dusted off. I am deeply impressed with the Petraus and MacChrystal approach to COIN: These men are thinking soldiers. Of course, Militant Islam has replaced Communism, desert has replaced jungle, and there is no Cold War component to the present war -though there is a 'Clash of Civilizations' element - but clearly some Vietnam-era COIN concepts and tactics apply. And although the Pakistan border plays a similar role to the Lao and Khmer borders, the only equivelent to the PAVN in Afghan are foreign jihadists, there is no 'main force.' For that reason, I'd say this war is more winnable than Vietnam, though the current enemy have a more formidable historical reputation as warriors than did the the Vietnamese: The French took and ran Indochine with reasonable ease up unitl the late 1940s, but nobody has EVER had an easy ride in Afghan.
__________________
A massive attack...a brigade against an army...three nights of battle...an unforgettable tragedy.
Sixty years later, the full story is told at last:
http://tothelastround.wordpress.com/
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 19 Feb 10, 01:22
Andy_S's Avatar
Andy_S Andy_S is offline
Lieutenant Colonel
Korea
5 Year Service Ribbon 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Seoul
Posts: 1,343
Andy_S has demonstrated strength of character [100] Andy_S has demonstrated strength of character [100] Andy_S has demonstrated strength of character [100] Andy_S has demonstrated strength of character [100] Andy_S has demonstrated strength of character [100] Andy_S has demonstrated strength of character [100] Andy_S has demonstrated strength of character [100] Andy_S has demonstrated strength of character [100] Andy_S has demonstrated strength of character [100] Andy_S has demonstrated strength of character [100] Andy_S has demonstrated strength of character [100]
Ms Saigon:

May I suggest that your healthy distrust for so many segments of American society makes you ideally fitted for a career in journalism?

(Ducks)
__________________
A massive attack...a brigade against an army...three nights of battle...an unforgettable tragedy.
Sixty years later, the full story is told at last:
http://tothelastround.wordpress.com/
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 19 Feb 10, 01:47
Miss Saigon's Avatar
Miss Saigon Miss Saigon is offline
General of the Forums - Donut Dolly
South_Vietnam
100 Greatest Generals, 2008 Distinguished Service Award 5 Year Service Ribbon Summer Campaign 
Most Decisive Battle Campaign, 2008 Greatest Westerns Campaign Greatest Spy Movies Campaign 
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: FSB Austin
Posts: 13,475
Miss Saigon has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Miss Saigon has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Miss Saigon has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Miss Saigon has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Miss Saigon has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Miss Saigon has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Miss Saigon has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Miss Saigon has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Miss Saigon has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Miss Saigon has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Miss Saigon has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Miss Saigon has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Miss Saigon has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Miss Saigon has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Miss Saigon has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Miss Saigon has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Miss Saigon has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Miss Saigon has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy_S View Post
Ms Saigon:

May I suggest that your healthy distrust for so many segments of American society makes you ideally fitted for a career in journalism?

(Ducks)
No need to duck. You are not the first to suggest this. RR suggested it long ago.

My healthy distrust is based on experience.

I do not think of journalism as a bad profession. I just think many need to forget about the fourth estate hype and self inflated ego aspects of it and do a better job. Just like teachers and University professors who often suffer from similar self righteous afflictions.

When an engineer or builder builds something faulty or incorrectly often the results are visible and sometimes in very short order. Unfortunately this is not true with all professions when their products are deficient.
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 19 Feb 10, 03:07
Trailboss49's Avatar
Trailboss49 Trailboss49 is offline
General of the Forums
United_States
5 Year Service Ribbon 
 
Real Name: Pat
Join Date: May 2006
Location: In your mind.
Posts: 17,151
Trailboss49 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Trailboss49 has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Trailboss49 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Trailboss49 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Trailboss49 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Trailboss49 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Trailboss49 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Trailboss49 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Trailboss49 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Trailboss49 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Trailboss49 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Trailboss49 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Trailboss49 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Trailboss49 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Trailboss49 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Trailboss49 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Trailboss49 has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
No, the Vietnam War is not a dead issue & only trite and flase statements without any foundation like Andy S spewed could ever make it seem so.

Actions speak louder than words. Let's look at the forums on Armchairgeneral. Whenever I log on I go to the 'Iraq War' thread since I am in Iraq. Oftentimes there is nothing new there or if so very few remarks. This is on actions taking place today.

Since I'm a 'Nam Vet I also look at the Vietnam thread. There are always new topics and several postings. Thus proving that among those who visit ACG Vietnam is much more popular to discuss than Iraq.

Vietnam veterans to a great degree are why the American populace are standing behind our military. Andy S talked about the demoralized military of the 70s & 80s? Where the heck did that come from other than out of a liberal professor's mouth?

Liberal professors make me sick. They have the double standards of morality that make liberalism the filth it is.

I have tolerated liberal professors since their courses were required and sat at the feet or learned professors who really know the truth.

For another 3 decades until most of the 'Nam vets have quit breathing the conflict there will be an issue.

I will always damn those who wore/wear the footprint of the American chicken.
__________________
"If you are right, then you are right even if everyone says you are wrong. If you are wrong then you are wrong even if everyone says you are right." William Penn.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 19 Feb 10, 05:14
KEN JENSEN's Avatar
KEN JENSEN KEN JENSEN is offline
General of the Forums - Departed Hero & Friend
United_States
5 Year Service Ribbon Distinguished Service Award ACG Order of Valiant Honor 
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: BOISE, IDAHO
Posts: 5,551
KEN JENSEN is a glorious beacon of light [700]
KEN JENSEN is a glorious beacon of light [700] KEN JENSEN is a glorious beacon of light [700] KEN JENSEN is a glorious beacon of light [700] KEN JENSEN is a glorious beacon of light [700] KEN JENSEN is a glorious beacon of light [700] KEN JENSEN is a glorious beacon of light [700] KEN JENSEN is a glorious beacon of light [700] KEN JENSEN is a glorious beacon of light [700] KEN JENSEN is a glorious beacon of light [700] KEN JENSEN is a glorious beacon of light [700] KEN JENSEN is a glorious beacon of light [700] KEN JENSEN is a glorious beacon of light [700]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy_S View Post
... particulary as it related to occupation policy in Iraq...
Andy (Mr. Reporter),

Please provide how you concluded this "occupation policy" mentioned above - do you have facts or is it just opinion?

Our enemies have always labeled our (U.S.) forces as "occupation" in order to rally their cause.

I do not believe we (U.S.) are occupying any country but our own, and certainly have had no desire to since Germany's Nazi days!

We have troops stationed all over the world (to include the U.K.); I don't think this is an "occupation" force. Our forces are stationed all around the world as a "protection" umbrella - thank you very much!

Lou,
The academics will not let go of the Vietnam issue for a long time - it's one of their models of our aggression ("ugly American" themes) and provides them tools to enforce their agenda!

I have to laugh (and cry) upon reading the comments in regard to the hateful nature against the "boomers generation" - of course it's their fathers and grandfathers they are hating, isn't it!!


Oh, and Andy - IMHO I don't believe MS mistrusts to much about America; I believe it's stupid, lazy arz, people (including Communists, chitty Professors, and Dictators) she mistrusts (could be from anywhere).



__________________
1st ID, 1/28th '67/'68 Phouc Vinh & Quan Loi
Skirmishes Bu Dop Dec-67, An My, Thu Duc Feb-68
Plt. Ldr - CIB, Purple Hearts, Silver Star
What we write can be considered to be a reflection of our SOUL providing others to know our CHARACTER.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 19 Feb 10, 05:25
Boonierat's Avatar
Boonierat Boonierat is offline
Marshal of ACG - XO
South_Vietnam
March Offensive 100 Greatest Generals, 2008 Model Forum Group Build 5 Year Service Ribbon 
Distinguished Service Award Summer Campaign Most Decisive Battle Campaign, 2008 Greatest Westerns Campaign 
Greatest Spy Movies Campaign Greatest Blunders Campaign Best Pin-Up Of World War II 
 
Real Name: Stephane Moutin-Luyat
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Semi-retired
Posts: 15,950
Boonierat has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Boonierat has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Boonierat has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Boonierat has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Boonierat has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Boonierat has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Boonierat has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Boonierat has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Boonierat has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Boonierat has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Boonierat has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Boonierat has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Boonierat has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Boonierat has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Boonierat has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Boonierat has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Boonierat has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Boonierat has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
The sad thing is I believe the negative image that's been etched in the general public's mind will never go away, no matter how hard revisionist historians will work.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links

  #11  
Old 19 Feb 10, 05:26
Half Pint John's Avatar
Half Pint John Half Pint John is online now
General of the Forums
United_States
March Offensive 100 Greatest Generals, 2008 Distinguished Service Award 5 Year Service Ribbon 
Summer Campaign Most Decisive Battle Campaign, 2008 Greatest Westerns Campaign Greatest Spy Movies Campaign 
Greatest Blunders Campaign Best Pin-Up Of World War II 
 
Real Name: John "The HUMBLE"
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: APO AE 09131 Hqs EuCom
Posts: 35,279
Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Quote:
I do not believe we (U.S.) are occupying any country but our own, and certainly have had no desire to since Germany's Nazi days!
We forced the German government from power by force of arms, moved in and help set up a government that we could except. and occupied
Germany until 55.

Now how is Iraq different?


After the Nam era, and the end of the draft the quality of our military member increased rapidly. As did the quality of our military in general. Most all leadership positions from squad leader up to CoJC was a combat veteran. We had people that had walked the walk and that adds a lot to a military force.
__________________
"Ask not what your country can do for you"

If God wanted us to vote, he would have given us candidates.*


NO one wins a war!!!! They just lose less.

Last edited by Half Pint John; 19 Feb 10 at 05:34..
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 19 Feb 10, 05:28
Boonierat's Avatar
Boonierat Boonierat is offline
Marshal of ACG - XO
South_Vietnam
March Offensive 100 Greatest Generals, 2008 Model Forum Group Build 5 Year Service Ribbon 
Distinguished Service Award Summer Campaign Most Decisive Battle Campaign, 2008 Greatest Westerns Campaign 
Greatest Spy Movies Campaign Greatest Blunders Campaign Best Pin-Up Of World War II 
 
Real Name: Stephane Moutin-Luyat
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Semi-retired
Posts: 15,950
Boonierat has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Boonierat has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Boonierat has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Boonierat has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Boonierat has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Boonierat has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Boonierat has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Boonierat has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Boonierat has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Boonierat has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Boonierat has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Boonierat has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Boonierat has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Boonierat has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Boonierat has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Boonierat has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Boonierat has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Boonierat has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Please leave Iraq out of the discussion gentlemen, its been (and still is) debated to death in other parts of the forum
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 19 Feb 10, 08:22
SRV Ron's Avatar
SRV Ron SRV Ron is offline
General of the Forums
United_States
 
Real Name: Ron Picardi
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Sag Nasty
Posts: 7,781
SRV Ron is a jewel in the rough [500]
SRV Ron is a jewel in the rough [500] SRV Ron is a jewel in the rough [500] SRV Ron is a jewel in the rough [500] SRV Ron is a jewel in the rough [500] SRV Ron is a jewel in the rough [500] SRV Ron is a jewel in the rough [500] SRV Ron is a jewel in the rough [500]
The Left will continue to keep it an issue until all that served there have left this world. Then, there will be no opposition to their revision of history as they brainwash the public school children in just how E-Vil the Republicans were and how the US military targeted millions of women and children during that war.
__________________
A message to Conservatives from the Progressives;

Know Your Place, Shut Your Face!
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 19 Feb 10, 08:25
moonpie46's Avatar
moonpie46 moonpie46 is offline
Second Lieutenant
United_States
 
Real Name: JfM
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: No-then Virginia
Posts: 429
moonpie46 is on the path to success [1-99] moonpie46 is on the path to success [1-99] moonpie46 is on the path to success [1-99] moonpie46 is on the path to success [1-99] moonpie46 is on the path to success [1-99] moonpie46 is on the path to success [1-99] moonpie46 is on the path to success [1-99]
Quote:
Is Vietnam a dead issue?

We may all agree to define a dead issue as an issue that doesn't matter anymore, but then the question becomes the definition of 'matter'. For me and thousands of others approximately my age, Vietnam will 'matter' deeply until we die. Does Vietnam 'matter' in terms of shaping current national policy? Does Vietnam 'matter' in terms of influencing contemporary United States society? Is the Vietnam experience relevant in the United States today? My best answer is that its probably less a factor than it was 20 or 30 years ago, but yes, the experience remains very relevant in understanding and shaping today. Certainly while truly a distant historical event with no-one from that period alive, the American Civil War remains an overarching issue in approaching any perceptive comprehension of this nation today.
__________________
The same battle in the clouds will be known to the deaf only as lightening, and to the blind only as thunder.--George Santayana

Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 19 Feb 10, 09:01
LRB's Avatar
LRB LRB is offline
General of the Forums
Canada
5 Year Service Ribbon 
 
Real Name: Lesley
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Lindsay
Posts: 12,421
LRB has earned the respect of all [900] LRB has earned the respect of all [900]
LRB has earned the respect of all [900] LRB has earned the respect of all [900] LRB has earned the respect of all [900] LRB has earned the respect of all [900] LRB has earned the respect of all [900] LRB has earned the respect of all [900]
Only as dead as any other issue.

The circumstances of Western Europe of the 70s and 80s still today has an impact on me. Regardless of the fact that the Soviet Union is gone, and the Warsaw Pact doesn't exist any longer and Germany is whole again.

Vietnam meant a lot to a lot of people. For instance, I am sure "millions of Vietnamese were murdered by American forces" and "tens of thousands of babies napalmed" will get a person NO real support from veterans for the most part.

But Vietnam was just one conflict. It's not that it happened as long ago as it did, it's who was involved that will count.

I wasn't there. It has no person impact.
I wasn't in Bosnia, but I could have been if I had stayed in. I might have seen Somolia, but likely would not have seen Rwanda.
I'm not old enough for Korea, but I'm sure those that were there, have scars.
I don't think Tarawa will ever be forgotten even if it was hidden in a 'good' war.

Right now Iraq and Afghanistan is becoming something of a thing to deal with for many persons in uniform. People that lose friends there, won't see it much different than people that lost friends in Vietnam.
And there is no shortage of people heaping hate on Iraq and Afghanistan participation.
I'm glad Canada didn't participate (after the fact) in Iraq, and I do wish we would find another solution (other than ground forces) in Afghanistan.

But I'm a historian more than I'm ex military. Non of it ever really becomes a dead issue with me.
There's a bit of 'Vietnam' in both current conflicts, but the current conflicts and NOT Vietnams.
__________________
Life is change. My life changed.
I didn't choose the change, it just happened.
Life is like that.
But I still get to make models :)
Reply With Quote
Reply

Please bookmark this thread if you enjoyed it!


Thread Tools
Display Modes



Forum Jump

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:57.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.