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Go Back   Armchair General and HistoryNet >> The Best Forums in History > Current Events > Latin America & the Caribbean > Haiti

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Haiti Jan 2010 Earthquake in Haiti. .

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  #1  
Old 31 Jan 10, 08:19
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10 foolish US Baptists arrested in Haiti

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,584393,00.html
Come on people,how stupid can you be?Why would they not clear this with the Haitian (I use this term loosely)government?Just because the Haitians can't control their own criminals,they can't round up the inmates that escaped after the quake,and are essentially powerless against the looters doesn't mean they can't find the means to detain a group of white devils.

I'm sure the US government,behind the scenes,is "strongly suggesting" that these people are released come Monday when they stand before the Haitian (another term I'll use loosely)judge.I don't think anyone,including the Haitians,actually believes these are "human traffickers".But the Haitians have been handed a perfect opportunity that they somehow have control of their toilet of a country.
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  #2  
Old 31 Jan 10, 08:59
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I'm not sure what your point is here: are you criticizing the baptists or the Haitians?

No matter how poor and corrupt they were before the earthquake, there was at least some sense of stability and a government that functioned (at least for their own members it did). I can assure you that ANY country facing a disaster of this magnitude, with half of it's government dead and the rest scattered, criminal gangs busted out of broken jails, police force completely outnumbered, there would all kinds of cases of looting, thieving, murdering, and yes child trafficking.

With absolutely no enforcement or accountability of anything, I'm beginning to suspect these people were indeed taking advantage of the situation, and those children. It's my understanding that the Haitian government (or whats left of it) has imposed a temporary freeze on out-of-country adoptions to prevent possible child abductions.
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  #3  
Old 31 Jan 10, 09:28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asterix View Post
I'm not sure what your point is here: are you criticizing the baptists or the Haitians?

No matter how poor and corrupt they were before the earthquake, there was at least some sense of stability and a government that functioned (at least for their own members it did). I can assure you that ANY country facing a disaster of this magnitude, with half of it's government dead and the rest scattered, criminal gangs busted out of broken jails, police force completely outnumbered, there would all kinds of cases of looting, thieving, murdering, and yes child trafficking.

With absolutely no enforcement or accountability of anything, I'm beginning to suspect these people were indeed taking advantage of the situation, and those children. It's my understanding that the Haitian government (or whats left of it) has imposed a temporary freeze on out-of-country adoptions to prevent possible child abductions.
You are correct.

Taken from AP Wire Service

Quote:
Many children in Haitian orphanages aren't actually orphans but have been abandoned by family who cannot afford to care for them.

Children's rights groups have urged a halt to adoptions until it can be determined that the children have no relatives who can raise them.

The government now requires Prime Minister Max Bellerive to personally authorize the departure of any child as a way to prevent child trafficking.
HPJ
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  #4  
Old 31 Jan 10, 11:35
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I'm criticizing both.I'm criticizing the over-zealous do-gooders for not going through proper channels.I'm criticizing the Haitian "authorities" for their seemingly selective law enforcement.I honestly don't think those people are human traffickers,and I doubt the Haitians think that either,they're just making it known that they still do have some authority there,at least when it comes to people like those ten churchers.They'll leave the real criminals to the US forces and the blue hats.
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  #5  
Old 31 Jan 10, 11:52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gixxer86g View Post
I'm criticizing both.I'm criticizing the over-zealous do-gooders for not going through proper channels.I'm criticizing the Haitian "authorities" for their seemingly selective law enforcement.I honestly don't think those people are human traffickers,and I doubt the Haitians think that either,they're just making it known that they still do have some authority there,at least when it comes to people like those ten churchers.They'll leave the real criminals to the US forces and the blue hats.
Taking children across international borders without auhority is criminal, regardless of the intent. I would place it in a much more serious catagory than some punks looting a furniture store. As already pointed out much of the police force in the capitol were killed or still missing. Those stationed on the border were not near as close to the quake. You can only police where you got the forces not nessecarly where the most crime is.

It is, and hope it remains, Haitians country. Just be thankful you don't live.
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  #6  
Old 31 Jan 10, 12:13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Half Pint John View Post
Taking children across international borders without auhority is criminal, regardless of the intent.

Of course it's criminal.And when you're dealing with a group of Baptists from Idaho,easily enforcible.Those folks are a lot easier to deal with than machete wielding looters,or the gangs of rapists preying on women and girls in tent camps.

Well,if anything maybe these Baptists learned that they can't just go to another country and enforce your religious will on others.Only the muslims are allowed to do that.
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Old 31 Jan 10, 12:14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Half Pint John View Post
Many children in Haitian orphanages aren't actually orphans but have been abandoned by family who cannot afford to care for them.

Children's rights groups have urged a halt to adoptions until it can be determined that the children have no relatives who can raise them.

The government now requires Prime Minister Max Bellerive to personally authorize the departure of any child as a way to prevent child trafficking.

HPJ
What's the difference?
The children are better off being adopted either way.
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Old 31 Jan 10, 12:17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Golani View Post
What's the difference?
The children are better off being adopted either way.
Would you sing the same if one of the children was your own?
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Old 31 Jan 10, 12:27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Half Pint John View Post
Would you sing the same if one of the children was your own?
That's a poor example.Maybe these people shouldn't be spitting out kids like there's no tomorrow.Just because your poor doesn't mean you can't act responsibility.A lack of education doesn't automatically mean a lack of common sense.Hmmmm.....I can't feed myself,so maybe I'll have seven kids.What a great idea!
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Old 31 Jan 10, 12:59
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Hardly a poor example. Would you want to have one of your children taken away by foreigners with out your permission?
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Old 31 Jan 10, 13:02
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Half Pint John View Post
Would you sing the same if one of the children was your own?
I would probably not throw them into an orphan house if I'm still alive...
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Old 31 Jan 10, 13:40
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Hello Gixxer!
How are you today?
I enjoy your posts, and I hope you are picking the Colts next weekend.
Permit me to point out the flaws in your opinions about things.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gixxer86g View Post
Come on people,how stupid can you be?
Mean and hurtful statement.
However, I do agree with you to a point.
I think they wanted to cut through government red tape etc. and do some direct good.
I think they saw themselves as part of the solution, not part of the problem.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gixxer86g View Post
Why would they not clear this with the Haitian (I use this term loosely)government?
To cut down on the pain and suffering of the children.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gixxer86g View Post
I don't think anyone,including the Haitians,actually believes these are "human traffickers"
I agree.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gixxer86g View Post
...opportunity that they somehow have control of their toilet of a country.
Time.
I looked up the history of Haiti on wikipedia.
It appears in various ways, they have been exploited by foreigners over the centuries.
Is Haiti a toilet?
It's not the term I would use.
Are there countries I think are toilets?
Not at the moment.
There are some neighborhoods in southern California I go in, that are dumps, that should be bulldozed and made into drive-in movie theaters.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gixxer86g View Post
I honestly don't think those people are human traffickers,and I doubt the Haitians think that either,they're just making it known that they still do have some authority there,at least when it comes to people like those ten churchers.
I agree.
Give them a lecture, and let them go.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Half Pint John View Post
Taking children across international borders without auhority is criminal, regardless of the intent.
I agree.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Half Pint John View Post
It is, and hope it remains, Haitians country. Just be thankful you don't live.
I am very gratefull I don't live there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gixxer86g View Post
Well,if anything maybe these Baptists learned that they can't just go to another country and enforce your religious will on others.Only the muslims are allowed to do that.
Time.
The first part of your statement is ok.
Only Muslims?
Other religions have done it too!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gixxer86g View Post
Maybe these people shouldn't be spitting out kids like there's no tomorrow.
I agree.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gixxer86g View Post
Just because your poor doesn't mean you can't act responsibility.
I agree.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gixxer86g View Post
A lack of education doesn't automatically mean a lack of common sense.
I agree.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gixxer86g View Post
Hmmmm.....I can't feed myself,so maybe I'll have seven kids.What a great idea!
I believe in California, you can be a total loser, hump away, and the taxpayers will help care for you and your babies.
And your live-in lover, can get eight hours of sleep each day, pump iron, and party with his buddies.
I know I'm a liberal because conservatives are tight, and mean, but I feel conservative at the moment.
I'll go ahead and say it.
I know we must help Haiti, but it's a total drain, and I wish they would just go away.
Am I a bad person?
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Old 31 Jan 10, 13:55
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Quote:
Time.
The first part of your statement is ok.
Only Muslims?
Other religions have done it too
Wasn't it not all that long ago that another group was getting blamed for all the ills in the world?


Slug, we need more bad men like you in the world
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  #14  
Old 31 Jan 10, 14:28
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I agree with Gixxer86g but I'm more concerned that those do-goders ignored US imigration laws even if US border control under democrats is a toilet grade joke too. And Haiti of course is entitled to take your money and retain full suvereign control over it's teritory. It's price for retaining both the Monroe doctrine and fiction of modern international law.
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Old 31 Jan 10, 15:32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Half Pint John View Post
Hardly a poor example. Would you want to have one of your children taken away by foreigners with out your permission?
If I'm dead,I'd like to know that my children aren't left to fend for themselves in the mean streets of Haiti.BUT,this is why I said that these do-gooders should have gone through proper channels,which includes that joke of a government in Haiti.What if some of these kids' parents aren't dead?Maybe they just haven't been re-united.At the same time,however,the article states that manyof these kids were left at the orphanage in Haiti by distant relatives that cannot,or will not take care of them.

I firmly believe that the folks here at ACG are all good people,regardless of our political leanings.I can't imagine that anyone here doesn't feel heartbroken with the suffering of innocents.Personally,I am fed up with the political BS surrounding this disaster.I'm fed up with all the BS surrounding this disaster.We have a joke of a government that can't pacify it's own criminal element.But they can arrest a group of naive,yet well intention church folk.We have groups of healthy men standing beside a ruined house,begging for someone to come and dig out their loved ones,whom for some reason they are powerless to help themselves.We have people that can't feed themselves having seven kids.We're makin gthis massive effort to rescue these people,only to be s**t on by these people and everyone else in the world.And at the same time we have so many here in the US that are barely scraping by,and they're doing all the right things.Although I believe in God,I'm not really religious or spiritual.I believe in science and logic.And what I'm seeing in Haiti is nature enforcing her law that only the strong shall survive.

But the children.The children.They are innocent.They didn't ask to be born into that mess.They can't fix the problems of their society.They can be saved.And that's what motivates these Baptists from Idaho.I sincerely hope that's what this joke of a Haitian judge will realize when he judges these people tomorrow.If not we need to bring our people home.
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