HistoryNet.com RSS
ArmchairGeneral.com RSS

HistoryNet.com Articles
America's Civil War
American History
Aviation History
Civil War Times
MHQ
Military History
Vietnam
Wild West
World War II

ACG Online
ACG Magazine
Stuff We Like
War College
History News
Tactics 101
Carlo D'Este
Books

ACG Gaming
Boardgames
PC Game Reviews

ACG Network
Contact Us
Our Newsletter
Meet Our Staff
Advertise With Us

Sites We Support
HistoryNet.com
StreamHistory.com
Once A Marine
The Art of Battle
Game Squad
Mil. History Podcast
Russian Army - WW2
Achtung Panzer!
Mil History Online

Go Back   Armchair General and HistoryNet >> The Best Forums in History > Current Events > Latin America & the Caribbean > Haiti

Notices and Announcements

Haiti Jan 2010 Earthquake in Haiti. .

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #46  
Old 19 Jan 10, 18:49
the_redstar_swl's Avatar
the_redstar_swl the_redstar_swl is offline
General
Pirate
ACG Ten Year Service Award 5 Year Service Ribbon 
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Somewhere between L1 and L2
Posts: 4,106
the_redstar_swl has disabled reputation
From what I've found with some quick searching:
The Cap-Haitien airport appears to be currently inoperable.

The Jacmel airport doesn't have runway lights and the road from it to Port-Au-Prince is apparently damaged, According to this AFPS report it will be the second airport to re-open.

Didn't find much on the other airports. Some appear to be accepting flights but there's not a lot of info. And like with Jacmel there's the question of landing supplies and then being unable to get it to people.
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old 19 Jan 10, 19:05
Half Pint John's Avatar
Half Pint John Half Pint John is offline
General of the Forums
United_States
Distinguished Service Award ACG Ten Year Service Award 5 Year Service Ribbon March Offensive 
Summer Campaign 100 Greatest Generals, 2008 Most Decisive Battle Campaign, 2008 Greatest Westerns Campaign 
Greatest Spy Movies Campaign Greatest Blunders Campaign Best Pin-Up Of World War II Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign 
Most Significant/Influential Fighter Campaign Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role Aircraft C 
 
Real Name: John (NO LABELS)
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Stuttgart Germany
Posts: 47,154
Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+]  [+1]
Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Quote:
Originally Posted by the_redstar_swl View Post
From what I've found with some quick searching:
The Cap-Haitien airport appears to be currently inoperable.

The Jacmel airport doesn't have runway lights and the road from it to Port-Au-Prince is apparently damaged, According to this AFPS report it will be the second airport to re-open.

Didn't find much on the other airports. Some appear to be accepting flights but there's not a lot of info. And like with Jacmel there's the question of landing supplies and then being unable to get it to people.
TKS for info.

Runway lights are only required for IFR. AF Tac ATC should have lighting sets as part of the TOE.

From what we read and hear it isn't a problem of getting supplies into the country but getting them to those in need.
__________________
"Ask not what your country can do for you"

Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power.

'half-baked, spurious nationalism'
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old 19 Jan 10, 19:24
17thAirborneSon's Avatar
17thAirborneSon 17thAirborneSon is offline
Lieutenant General
United_States
5 Year Service Ribbon 
 
Real Name: Robert
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: The Wild West
Posts: 3,281
17thAirborneSon is walking in the light [200] 17thAirborneSon is walking in the light [200] 17thAirborneSon is walking in the light [200] 17thAirborneSon is walking in the light [200] 17thAirborneSon is walking in the light [200] 17thAirborneSon is walking in the light [200] 17thAirborneSon is walking in the light [200] 17thAirborneSon is walking in the light [200] 17thAirborneSon is walking in the light [200] 17thAirborneSon is walking in the light [200] 17thAirborneSon is walking in the light [200] 17thAirborneSon is walking in the light [200]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Golani View Post
http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/insideisr...Help-to-Haiti/

Got some friends from reserve units already there, may their work be of help
I saw Geraldo Rivera interview of an Israeli doctor in their Neonatal
Triage Center. I was very impressed and then when he shared how
a surgeon from their team donated his own blood to a victim he was
treating........well....tears did well up for me.
__________________
17thAirborneSon

"The horizon is unlimited." Major General Matthew Ridgeway
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old 19 Jan 10, 19:34
Roadkiller's Avatar
Roadkiller Roadkiller is offline
Major General
Canada
ACG Ten Year Service Award 5 Year Service Ribbon Best Pin-Up Of World War II 
 
Real Name: Art
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: HQ
Posts: 2,862
Roadkiller is simply cracking [600]
Roadkiller is simply cracking [600] Roadkiller is simply cracking [600] Roadkiller is simply cracking [600] Roadkiller is simply cracking [600] Roadkiller is simply cracking [600] Roadkiller is simply cracking [600] Roadkiller is simply cracking [600] Roadkiller is simply cracking [600] Roadkiller is simply cracking [600] Roadkiller is simply cracking [600] Roadkiller is simply cracking [600] Roadkiller is simply cracking [600]
Canada's military relief efforts are to be centered on Jacmel. The Disaster Assistance Relief Team (DART) is in the area, HMCS HALIFAX is in the harbour and the Royal 22 Regiment (the "VanDoos") are getting ready to deploy a 1000 troops from Quebec, Canada into the area.

A sound bite describing the logistical issues at Jacmel:

"Defence Minister Peter MacKay had earlier said the region faces other logistical challenges. The airport, little more than a runway, is capable of landing a Hercules aircraft but not the larger CC-177 transports, he said.

The town's port, while not unusable, is still not equipped to handle a ship the size of the two Canadian vessels arriving Monday, meaning supplies and personnel would have to be ferried from the ships to the port, he said."

http://news.ca.msn.com/world/cbc-art...entid=23279135

John, at work tomorrow I shall attempt to see if I can find any information on restoral of the airport.
__________________
Amateurs study tactics, Professionals study logistics.
Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old 20 Jan 10, 06:52
TacCovert4's Avatar
TacCovert4 TacCovert4 is online now
General of the Forums
United_States
ACG Ten Year Service Award 5 Year Service Ribbon March Offensive Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign 
Most Significant/Influential Fighter Campaign Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role  Aircraft Greatest/Best Tank of WW2 Campaign CWiE 1939-45 Campaign 
 
Real Name: Nick
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Here and there
Posts: 14,603
TacCovert4 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] TacCovert4 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] TacCovert4 has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
TacCovert4 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] TacCovert4 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] TacCovert4 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] TacCovert4 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] TacCovert4 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] TacCovert4 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] TacCovert4 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] TacCovert4 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] TacCovert4 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] TacCovert4 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] TacCovert4 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] TacCovert4 has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Half Pint John View Post
When AF tact Air Traffic Controllers go in to an airfield it is hardly make shift. It well be a fully instument airfiled. The ATC portion is most likly more advanced than what was there before the quake. 100 aircraft a day is not a big load for ATC to handle. The unloading seems to be the problem. IF they would only be using military aircraft then athings would move much faster with the palletize system they have for unloading.

I'm waiting for the mili to open up some tac type airfileds for C 130's and r/w. This should give some relieve to the main airport. 93HJL50
100 Transport planes a day, however, is probably a huge load for the existing tarmac/runway facilities. That is the main limiting factor, as is the availiblility of transport trucks, secured staging lots, and almost as important as the ATCs themselves, MHE and Drivers for MHE.

Though with the roads in the condition that they are, they're probably relying on a lot of rotary-wing transport. Which is my specialty. From calculations I made 2 years ago, given 4 CH53s and the suitable equipment, a team of 4 HST-trained personell and 4-8 'cargo-packers' they should be able to fly between 90,000 and 120,000 pounds per hour of supplies from one LZ to a DZ roughly 25 air-minutes away. This is per crew/helo flight, and so long as the helos have fuel and don't have to stop for maintenance. That's only good for CH47s and 53s, however, CH46s would only be running about 20,000-25,000 pph. V22s would be running at ~75,000 pph, but they can also run twice as far in 25 minutes.

The 25 minutes single-leg gives 5 minutes on each end for approach, dropping the load, departure, and picking up the load. There is no ground time given. The V-22 gets a speed advantage only when it is carrying its payload internally.
__________________
Tacitos, Satrap of Kyrene
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links

  #51  
Old 20 Jan 10, 07:16
Gixxer86g's Avatar
Gixxer86g Gixxer86g is offline
General of the Forums
United_States
5 Year Service Ribbon Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign Most Significant/Influential Fighter Campaign Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role Aircraft C 
 
Real Name: Jim
Join Date: May 2009
Location: The Lost Valley
Posts: 15,555
Gixxer86g has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Gixxer86g has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Gixxer86g has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Gixxer86g has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Gixxer86g has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Gixxer86g has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Gixxer86g has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Gixxer86g has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Gixxer86g has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Gixxer86g has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Gixxer86g has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Half Pint John View Post
Why should Time ref Reuters? The photog was under contract with Time. Plus where does it say that Reuters got it from the photog? Plus it isn't a question of the wire service but what Fox reported.

Where should the people be collecting thier dead? In the buildings that have all collapsed or the only places that might be open?

The Fox article references what the photographer supposedly said to Reuters.You are using the Time article to debunk the Fox article.The photog's comments to reuters are not mentioned in the Time article.So you really can't use the Time article to debunk the Fox article.

Where should the people be piling their dead?Certainly not in the middle of the street so as to block traffic which would include aid convoys.I know these people are uneducated,but I'm sure at least some of them have some common sense.
__________________
ALL LIVES SPLATTER!

BLACK JEEPS MATTER!

BLACK MOTORCYCLES MATTER!
Reply With Quote
  #52  
Old 20 Jan 10, 07:18
Half Pint John's Avatar
Half Pint John Half Pint John is offline
General of the Forums
United_States
Distinguished Service Award ACG Ten Year Service Award 5 Year Service Ribbon March Offensive 
Summer Campaign 100 Greatest Generals, 2008 Most Decisive Battle Campaign, 2008 Greatest Westerns Campaign 
Greatest Spy Movies Campaign Greatest Blunders Campaign Best Pin-Up Of World War II Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign 
Most Significant/Influential Fighter Campaign Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role Aircraft C 
 
Real Name: John (NO LABELS)
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Stuttgart Germany
Posts: 47,154
Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+]  [+1]
Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Runway isn't that much the problem. It looks like the field only has one taxiway. That well be the choke point.

BBC is still showing VIP flights landing.
__________________
"Ask not what your country can do for you"

Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power.

'half-baked, spurious nationalism'
Reply With Quote
  #53  
Old 20 Jan 10, 07:25
JSMoss's Avatar
JSMoss JSMoss is offline
Major General
United_States
ACG Ten Year Service Award 5 Year Service Ribbon 
 
Real Name: Steve
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Birthplace of the American Idea
Posts: 2,817
JSMoss is walking in the light [200] JSMoss is walking in the light [200] JSMoss is walking in the light [200] JSMoss is walking in the light [200] JSMoss is walking in the light [200] JSMoss is walking in the light [200] JSMoss is walking in the light [200] JSMoss is walking in the light [200] JSMoss is walking in the light [200] JSMoss is walking in the light [200] JSMoss is walking in the light [200] JSMoss is walking in the light [200] JSMoss is walking in the light [200]
Jacmel airport to open.

http://www.southcom.mil/appssc/news.php?storyId=2069
Reply With Quote
  #54  
Old 20 Jan 10, 07:39
Half Pint John's Avatar
Half Pint John Half Pint John is offline
General of the Forums
United_States
Distinguished Service Award ACG Ten Year Service Award 5 Year Service Ribbon March Offensive 
Summer Campaign 100 Greatest Generals, 2008 Most Decisive Battle Campaign, 2008 Greatest Westerns Campaign 
Greatest Spy Movies Campaign Greatest Blunders Campaign Best Pin-Up Of World War II Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign 
Most Significant/Influential Fighter Campaign Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role Aircraft C 
 
Real Name: John (NO LABELS)
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Stuttgart Germany
Posts: 47,154
Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+]  [+1]
Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Quote:
Originally Posted by JSMoss View Post
Good catch on your part. IF they just survived it yesterday then some people have been dragging their feet.
__________________
"Ask not what your country can do for you"

Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power.

'half-baked, spurious nationalism'
Reply With Quote
  #55  
Old 20 Jan 10, 07:56
Half Pint John's Avatar
Half Pint John Half Pint John is offline
General of the Forums
United_States
Distinguished Service Award ACG Ten Year Service Award 5 Year Service Ribbon March Offensive 
Summer Campaign 100 Greatest Generals, 2008 Most Decisive Battle Campaign, 2008 Greatest Westerns Campaign 
Greatest Spy Movies Campaign Greatest Blunders Campaign Best Pin-Up Of World War II Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign 
Most Significant/Influential Fighter Campaign Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role Aircraft C 
 
Real Name: John (NO LABELS)
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Stuttgart Germany
Posts: 47,154
Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+]  [+1]
Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Quote:
Originally Posted by TacCovert4 View Post
100 Transport planes a day, however, is probably a huge load for the existing tarmac/runway facilities. That is the main limiting factor, as is the availiblility of transport trucks, secured staging lots, and almost as important as the ATCs themselves, MHE and Drivers for MHE.

Though with the roads in the condition that they are, they're probably relying on a lot of rotary-wing transport. Which is my specialty. From calculations I made 2 years ago, given 4 CH53s and the suitable equipment, a team of 4 HST-trained personell and 4-8 'cargo-packers' they should be able to fly between 90,000 and 120,000 pounds per hour of supplies from one LZ to a DZ roughly 25 air-minutes away. This is per crew/helo flight, and so long as the helos have fuel and don't have to stop for maintenance. That's only good for CH47s and 53s, however, CH46s would only be running about 20,000-25,000 pph. V22s would be running at ~75,000 pph, but they can also run twice as far in 25 minutes.

The 25 minutes single-leg gives 5 minutes on each end for approach, dropping the load, departure, and picking up the load. There is no ground time given. The V-22 gets a speed advantage only when it is carrying its payload internally.
Are you talking internal loads or sling? 5 minute turn around time seems very optomistic to me under normal operating conditions. If sling loads then you'll be using a lot of gear that remains at the drop off.
__________________
"Ask not what your country can do for you"

Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power.

'half-baked, spurious nationalism'
Reply With Quote
  #56  
Old 20 Jan 10, 08:11
TacCovert4's Avatar
TacCovert4 TacCovert4 is online now
General of the Forums
United_States
ACG Ten Year Service Award 5 Year Service Ribbon March Offensive Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign 
Most Significant/Influential Fighter Campaign Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role  Aircraft Greatest/Best Tank of WW2 Campaign CWiE 1939-45 Campaign 
 
Real Name: Nick
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Here and there
Posts: 14,603
TacCovert4 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] TacCovert4 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] TacCovert4 has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
TacCovert4 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] TacCovert4 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] TacCovert4 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] TacCovert4 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] TacCovert4 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] TacCovert4 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] TacCovert4 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] TacCovert4 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] TacCovert4 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] TacCovert4 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] TacCovert4 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] TacCovert4 has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Half Pint John View Post
Runway isn't that much the problem. It looks like the field only has one taxiway. That well be the choke point.

BBC is still showing VIP flights landing.
Yep, you're correct. It was always our chokepoint in Iraq.

You can pretty much run a sortie rate of 1 plane every 2 minutes for transport aircraft, and maybe drop it down to 1 per minute if you've got 2 runways.

But you need both ample taxi space and parking. And at each parking spot you need a staging lot at least twice as big as the total pallet area of the typical aircraft parking there. That way you have room for 2 forks to unload the aircraft, and a third to unload the staging lot onto lorries or transporting to a central cargo area.

Rough estimate of the time to unload a C-130J with 2 forks and 463L pallets, 10 minutes. For a C-17, you're looking at closer to 30. you're also looking at a half-acre of staging lot (relatively flat open terrain with 4x4 or 6x6 dunnage aplenty) per C-17 parking spot in order to not bottleneck in that area.

Dunnage tends to be a big bottleneck, mostly because it's simple and relatively unnoticed until you're out of it. you'll need 8 ft 4x4s at a minimum, and at an absolute minimum, 2 per pallet, with a preference of 3. That gives you a request of 18 pieces per C-130 flight, with a minimum of 12, and 54-36 for a C-17, respectively.

MHE is also a bottleneck, and there is almost never enough of it. You're going to need 1 fork per staging lot if you don't have lorries to transport, and if you do, you'll still need 1 fork per 3 staging lots plus 2 lorries in order to keep the bottleneck down. You'll also need enough forks at the convoy staging area to transfer the goods to the trucks, so you're looking at 2 more there. And you'll need 2 dedicated forks on the ramp to unload the aircraft, especially if you have 4 or more parking spots. So for a total, with lorries and 6 parking spots, you'll need 4 lorries (7 ton Oshkosh trucks), and 6 forklifts (for fixed-wing ops they will have to be 10k EBFLs or TRAMs). IIRC a MEU only carries 1 or 2, and they'll need to be transported from a beach or port to the airport unless they're flown in by C-17, which should be able to carry as many as 4, depending on the model. Of course those numbers are based on maximum capacity ops, with the aircraft doing hot-pits (engines running the whole time), and a max ground time of 40 minutes.

And if you want to simultaneously run helo ops, you'll either have to slow down your optempo (helos tend to throw a monkey wrench into the flow of fixed wing ops if they're on the same airfield), or add in 2 lorries and 2 5k or 10k EBFLs and do it on a different location. Any large piece of suitable asphalt or concrete (like an interstate quality highway) would make an excellent heliport, or a solid grassy field with road access for the lorries from the beach or main airport. Dusty terrain is second best along with just a large chunk of parking lot or other hardball.
__________________
Tacitos, Satrap of Kyrene
Reply With Quote
  #57  
Old 20 Jan 10, 08:33
TacCovert4's Avatar
TacCovert4 TacCovert4 is online now
General of the Forums
United_States
ACG Ten Year Service Award 5 Year Service Ribbon March Offensive Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign 
Most Significant/Influential Fighter Campaign Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role  Aircraft Greatest/Best Tank of WW2 Campaign CWiE 1939-45 Campaign 
 
Real Name: Nick
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Here and there
Posts: 14,603
TacCovert4 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] TacCovert4 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] TacCovert4 has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
TacCovert4 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] TacCovert4 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] TacCovert4 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] TacCovert4 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] TacCovert4 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] TacCovert4 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] TacCovert4 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] TacCovert4 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] TacCovert4 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] TacCovert4 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] TacCovert4 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] TacCovert4 has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Half Pint John View Post
Are you talking internal loads or sling? 5 minute turn around time seems very optomistic to me under normal operating conditions. If sling loads then you'll be using a lot of gear that remains at the drop off.
I'm basing it on the following concept, using 1 Huey, 4 47s or 53Es, and 2 blackhawks, or 3 blackhawks, or 4 hueys.

Huey/Blackhawk flight flies in with an 6 man HST and a 2 squad security element (or larger depending on population and threat assessment).

If possible 1 Blackhawk (for HST) has extra fuel tanks and remains on site during the op.

Site is set up as a LZ (done by 4 of the members of the DZ HST).

First wave of gear is staged and slung on main LZ (which would have to be pretty Dang large, like 60 acre field large, for this to work). Work crew is preparing second wave of gear at this time.

Security element (commanded by a staff NCO or junior officer that will be in charge of distribution and security (4 or so of the security element will be doing distribution ops)) establishes security and HST establishes communication with Main LZ via SatCom and comm. for the birds (Radioman and LZ commander (a corporal or sergeant)).

2xCH53s enter the Main LZ, which should be near to their basing area to save fuel. They pick up the first wave of gear (external lift), and take off for the DZ.

(Day ops only). The drop zone has movable panels to show the flight crews where to drop the supplies (roughly 10 yards between drop points). The recieving HST directs the flight crews to the drop points and recieves the supplies.

(Night ops only) there is a crows foot which is quickly moved by the 3 non-directing members of the HST (1 is outside director, commander, and radioman; the other three are free to unsling gear and move the crows foot) for every bird. This will take a few minutes, so the individual birds should be staggered approx. 10 mikes apart to allow for this.


As the nets and slings are unhooked, the HST builds a 10k net which will contain all of the nets and slings. If there is room to for the last Heavy bird in the DZ to land after dropping the load, they can throw it in the back. If there is not room, they exteral-load the net containing the gear for transit back to the Main LZ.


At this point either the HST is going to stay and assist with distribution/security/third and fourth waves (if the DZ is large enough), or a Huey or Blackhawk will fly (or if it stayed) in and pick them up and sortie them to a new DZ where the process will be repeated. Look at flight time plus an hour to set up the new DZ for Comm/Security (a new DZ security/distribution team would have to be in motion as well) and you can run another 100k pounds in an hour to that DZ.
__________________
Tacitos, Satrap of Kyrene

Last edited by TacCovert4; 20 Jan 10 at 08:37..
Reply With Quote
  #58  
Old 20 Jan 10, 08:49
TacCovert4's Avatar
TacCovert4 TacCovert4 is online now
General of the Forums
United_States
ACG Ten Year Service Award 5 Year Service Ribbon March Offensive Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign 
Most Significant/Influential Fighter Campaign Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role  Aircraft Greatest/Best Tank of WW2 Campaign CWiE 1939-45 Campaign 
 
Real Name: Nick
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Here and there
Posts: 14,603
TacCovert4 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] TacCovert4 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] TacCovert4 has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
TacCovert4 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] TacCovert4 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] TacCovert4 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] TacCovert4 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] TacCovert4 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] TacCovert4 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] TacCovert4 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] TacCovert4 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] TacCovert4 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] TacCovert4 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] TacCovert4 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] TacCovert4 has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Of course if you really want to run a true Airhead for supply distribution, fly in 3 platoons or so, including a platoon of supply/truck driver/MHE driver/HST. Then the first wave consists of 2 5k forklifts and 2 7ton long flatbeds. Put the DZ by a road, and put the distribution point about 400 yards or so down the road. Have 2 squads secure the DZ, and use the rest to secure the distribution point. Make sure you have interpreters, and/or signs directing them to the right place. You might want the second wave to bring in 4 Humvees with gun mounts to provide mobility, muscle, and 'intimidation factor' to your security teams. If not, the second wave should bring in fuel blivets and any other supplies the distribution/security/HST will need.

Have 1 forklift at the Distribution point, and 1 forklift at the DZ. Each wave will fill up a single 7ton sortie, which can then drive quickly to the distribution point (with a fire team on board to provide escort/support or 2 HMMWVs in a convoy), and be unloaded by the fork at the DP.

You'll have to use sling loads and pallets, or cargo containers (20 footers or quadcons). Cargo containers are more secure against vandalism and theft, protect the supplies from the elements, and have the extra perk of being able to build a 'compound' at the DP, if it is for long term use, otherwise just use warehouse pallets (so you don't have to fly out a lot of heavy gear later with a reverse HST).

Your max weight would be 14-31 tons per wave, totally dependent on the capacity of the 7 tons (unless you were using CH46s, in which case you'd be limited to ~12 tons (due to the age of the airframes) per flight of 4.

That is totally the best case scenario for something like an isolated valley with no roads in or out where you wish to make a permanent distribution center/command post for the relief operation.
__________________
Tacitos, Satrap of Kyrene
Reply With Quote
  #59  
Old 20 Jan 10, 09:02
TacCovert4's Avatar
TacCovert4 TacCovert4 is online now
General of the Forums
United_States
ACG Ten Year Service Award 5 Year Service Ribbon March Offensive Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign 
Most Significant/Influential Fighter Campaign Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role  Aircraft Greatest/Best Tank of WW2 Campaign CWiE 1939-45 Campaign 
 
Real Name: Nick
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Here and there
Posts: 14,603
TacCovert4 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] TacCovert4 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] TacCovert4 has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
TacCovert4 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] TacCovert4 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] TacCovert4 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] TacCovert4 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] TacCovert4 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] TacCovert4 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] TacCovert4 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] TacCovert4 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] TacCovert4 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] TacCovert4 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] TacCovert4 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] TacCovert4 has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Note: if you're going to use V22s, I highly recommend you find a large enough and hard enough piece of ground to use some forklifts and lorries and be able to do all of your loads internally. V22s don't get a weight advantage by carrying externally, and the fuel savings/speed advantages of carrying internally would make their operation in this function far more worthwhile.

In my experience, the V22 is a niche logistics platform that is optimized for operations from a large airbase to a small airbase (that can't accept the planes larger than say an AN26) that is within 30 minutes of flight time. I also know for a fact that within a 30m C130 flight, a V22 sortie will be able to outrun the C130, because the V22 doesn't need the taxi time, takeoff or approach that the C130 requires.
__________________
Tacitos, Satrap of Kyrene
Reply With Quote
  #60  
Old 20 Jan 10, 09:53
Pruitt's Avatar
Pruitt Pruitt is offline
ACG Forums - General Staff
France
Distinguished Service Award ACG Ten Year Service Award 5 Year Service Ribbon March Offensive 
100 Greatest Generals, 2008 Most Decisive Battle Campaign, 2008 Greatest Westerns Campaign Greatest Blunders Campaign 
Summer Campaign Best Pin-Up Of World War II Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign Most Significant/Influential Fighter Campaign 
Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role Aircraft C 
 
Real Name: Richard Pruitt
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Sulphur, LA
Posts: 26,976
Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Tac,

What is going to keep the locals from swamping two platoons to get the supplies?

Pruitt
__________________
Pruitt, you are truly an expert! Kelt06

Have you been struck by the jawbone of an ASS lately?

by Khepesh "This is the logic of Pruitt"
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links

Reply

Please bookmark this thread if you enjoyed it!


Thread Tools
Display Modes



Forum Jump

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:46.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.