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Go Back   Armchair General and HistoryNet >> The Best Forums in History > Current Events > Latin America & the Caribbean > Haiti

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Haiti Jan 2010 Earthquake in Haiti. .

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  #31  
Old 19 Jan 10, 08:40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Half Pint John View Post
Refrences! Until then it is just a barracks rumor for me. Exorcist isn't even 50% correct in comparing the two. Only thing they have in common is poor and black. Some concentrate on the 'black'
I don't have the references,they are a couple of days old.But I do recall them being from AP reports.I don't make stuff up,HP.If you don't believe me,I don't care.I know what I read.HP,it seems you're the one focusing on the "black" aspect.

Haiti IS the Somalia of the Caribbean.What little government there is or was is horribly corrupt.The people are really controlled by the roving gangs.The UN isn't really effective there.Aid efforts are hampered by the very people we are trying to "save".The population won't help themselves.Unfortunately the only comparison that rings true to you is the race issue.When all else fails,play the race card.
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  #32  
Old 19 Jan 10, 08:57
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Here you go HP,here's one reference.I was mistaken though,this one is from a Fox report.
Quote:
Angry Haitians have reportedly been using corpses to set up roadblocks in Port-au-Prince to protest those delays. Photographer Shaul Schwarz said he saw at least two downtown roadblocks formed with bodies of earthquake victims and rocks.

"They are starting to block the roads with bodies," he told Reuters. "It's getting ugly out there, people are fed up with getting no help."
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,583084,00.html

I've read the same stuff elsewhere.That's all the time I'm spending on it.So if you don't believe it,the burden of proof is on your shoulders.If you think I'm a liar,prove it.
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  #33  
Old 19 Jan 10, 09:00
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Violence in Haiti is simple economic crimes, e.g., a half dozen thugs doing normal "gang banger" business.

Violence in Somalia is full scale political/clan warfare involving pitched battles with thousands of jihadis, automatic weapons, indirect fire, and T-55 tanks. You are off by an order of magnitude on the comparision.
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  #34  
Old 19 Jan 10, 09:12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GCoyote View Post
Violence in Haiti is simple economic crimes, e.g., a half dozen thugs doing normal "gang banger" business.

Violence in Somalia is full scale political/clan warfare involving pitched battles with thousands of jihadis, automatic weapons, indirect fire, and T-55 tanks. You are off by an order of magnitude on the comparision.
You are correct about that,except that the situation in Haiti is much more complex than simple gang warfare.You don't deploy Marines or UN peacekeepers to simply fight small gangs.Small gangs don't attempt coups.But the end result is the same.Like Somalia,Haiti is a bottomless pit.All the money and aid in the world won't make a difference unless the people decide to help themselves.We can give them shovels and fill to cover up that pit,but they've got to be willing to do the shovelling.And they aren't.
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  #35  
Old 19 Jan 10, 09:35
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Question Voodoo and Christianity...

Quote:
Originally Posted by the_redstar_swl View Post
You forgot that they're also uppity and worship heathen voodoo gods!
One thing to remember is most people in Haiti are Catholic and believe in VooDoo. We get the same thing in Louisiana. I still remember going to New Orleans once and going in Marie Laveau's VooDoo Shop! I thought it was all hinky (Baptist in me!). My future ex wife bought a doll. Two weeks later she burned it in the back yard because a bunch of bad things were happening to her. She is Cajun and an ex Catholic! We have something in Louisiana known as a Traiteur, a person that prays for you to get well. She also would see one around here.

Fast forward years later and I am working in a inner city Black High School. One French teacher had no trouble whatsoever with her students (rare!). She was middle aged and Black and from Haiti. The kids were all scared of her!

Pruitt
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  #36  
Old 19 Jan 10, 10:15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Exorcist View Post
I hear reports of aid planes having to circle around waiting for silly VIP flights come in full of fools looking to get their photo-ops. The French seem to have a legitimate complaint.
It is indeed a very legitimate complaint, and problem - the backlog at the airport is not being caused by jams, but rather it has been reported in the last 24 hours that - one Chinese plane hogged the airport for photo-ops, US ViPs have been hogging the airport for photp-ops, and lastly the 2nd half of the Doctors without Borders planes filled with medical supplies for their hospital has been denied permission to land (again) so that a US politican could conduct his own rescue of orphans at the airport as a photo-op.

I think it's clear now who wants to help people and who wants to be there for shallow photo-ops. But never mind these details....there are many sources out there that are using the "complaints" as an excuse to bash France again. "Wait our turn"?? More like making the haitians wait their turn so some big egos out there can get their picture taken.

I hope for the sake of the Haitians, those with only photo-op interests take a back seat on the list of priorities from now on, and let the real help get in.
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  #37  
Old 19 Jan 10, 10:54
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Angry Haitians have reportedly been using corpses to set up roadblocks in Port-au-Prince to protest those delays. Photographer Shaul Schwarz said he saw at least two downtown roadblocks formed with bodies of earthquake victims and rocks.

"They are starting to block the roads with bodies," he told Reuters. "It's getting ugly out there, people are fed up with getting no help."So a photographer has reportedly seen dead bodies being used. IF he is a photographer why didn't he take any photo's? Run out of film?

IF you feel slighted that some one ask for a reference that is your problem. Same as if you said you were kidnapped by aliens.

Quote:
Photographer Shaul Schwarz, on assignment for TIME, saw corpses piled on the street impeding traffic
http://www.time.com/time/specials/pa...953865,00.html
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  #38  
Old 19 Jan 10, 11:27
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If you think he is lying,prove it.You basically called me a liar because I didn't provide a reference at the moment.Then I did provide a reference,but of course it isn't good enough for you.I guess the only way to satisfy you would be for me to go to that hell hole and document it myself.
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  #39  
Old 19 Jan 10, 11:53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asterix View Post
It is indeed a very legitimate complaint, and problem - the backlog at the airport is not being caused by jams, but rather it has been reported in the last 24 hours that - one Chinese plane hogged the airport for photo-ops, US ViPs have been hogging the airport for photp-ops, and lastly the 2nd half of the Doctors without Borders planes filled with medical supplies for their hospital has been denied permission to land (again) so that a US politican could conduct his own rescue of orphans at the airport as a photo-op.

I think it's clear now who wants to help people and who wants to be there for shallow photo-ops. But never mind these details....there are many sources out there that are using the "complaints" as an excuse to bash France again. "Wait our turn"?? More like making the haitians wait their turn so some big egos out there can get their picture taken.

I hope for the sake of the Haitians, those with only photo-op interests take a back seat on the list of priorities from now on, and let the real help get in.
I'm sure you're right about that,even though I haven't read anything yet about these new delays.I did however read quotes from the US commander on the ground explaining the cause of the original delays and reminding everyone that it is a small airport,with extremely limited "parking" spaces and ATC being conducted down on the grass with a makeshift setup.An airport that saw,if I'm not mistaken 3 or was it 6,flights a day is now supporting around 100 flights a day.Everyone wants their moment to shine in this political circus,but you've got to remember,we're spending the most.We're deploying the most equipment.We'll most likely be here when everyone else goes home.

As far as the US VIP photo-ops,what else did you expect from Obama's minions?And even with these handful of "photo-ops" that you focus on,US forces are moving a hell of a lot of traffic through that tiny airport.Like I said,if you think you can do better,knock yourself out.

Seriously though,I don't deny the incidents you point out happened.I don't need references.I believe you.This is a political goldmine.A grand opportunity for ******* politicians the world over to advance their personal agendas.
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  #40  
Old 19 Jan 10, 13:55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gixxer86g View Post
If you think he is lying,prove it.You basically called me a liar because I didn't provide a reference at the moment.Then I did provide a reference,but of course it isn't good enough for you.I guess the only way to satisfy you would be for me to go to that hell hole and document it myself.
Get it into that space. I'm not calling you a lyer or him. The difference being what Fox reported that he said and what Time article had. But we know of course that Fox is fair and balanced, just not beyond spinning an article.
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  #41  
Old 19 Jan 10, 14:03
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Quote:
ATC being conducted down on the grass with a makeshift setup
When AF tact Air Traffic Controllers go in to an airfield it is hardly make shift. It well be a fully instument airfiled. The ATC portion is most likly more advanced than what was there before the quake. 100 aircraft a day is not a big load for ATC to handle. The unloading seems to be the problem. IF they would only be using military aircraft then athings would move much faster with the palletize system they have for unloading.

I'm waiting for the mili to open up some tac type airfileds for C 130's and r/w. This should give some relieve to the main airport. 93HJL50
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Old 19 Jan 10, 16:37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Half Pint John View Post
Get it into that space. I'm not calling you a lyer or him. The difference being what Fox reported that he said and what Time article had. But we know of course that Fox is fair and balanced, just not beyond spinning an article.
The Time article you linked to certainly raises my eyebrow,but it still doesn't disprove that what the photographer told Reuters isn't truthful.The Time article says nothing about Reuters.
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Old 19 Jan 10, 17:02
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gixxer86g View Post
The Time article you linked to certainly raises my eyebrow,but it still doesn't disprove that what the photographer told Reuters isn't truthful.The Time article says nothing about Reuters.
Why should Time ref Reuters? The photog was under contract with Time. Plus where does it say that Reuters got it from the photog? Plus it isn't a question of the wire service but what Fox reported.

Where should the people be collecting thier dead? In the buildings that have all collapsed or the only places that might be open?
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Old 19 Jan 10, 17:29
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Click here for explanations on technical data
Town Airport name ICAO IATA Usage Customs Runway IFR Rwy length
Cap Haitien Cap Haitien Intl MTCH CAP Civ. Yes Paved Yes 4900 ft
Jacmel Jacmel MTJA JAK Civ. Unpaved No 3900 ft
Jeremie Jeremie MTJE JEE Civ. Unpaved No 3900 ft
Port De Paix Port De Paix MTPX PAX Civ. Unpaved No 2000 ft
Port-Au-Prince Port-Au-Prince Intl MTPP PAP Civ. Yes Paved Yes 9900 ft

This is of major runways in Haiti.

All except the 2000 foot runway is capable for C 17 and C 130. Are they being used yet? Army has tac ATC assists that can go into these places to set up IFR airfields if needed. IFR means an instrumented approach to the airfield, all weather depending on the paving of course.

Has anybody heard of these airfields being used?
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Old 19 Jan 10, 18:49
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The Exorcist has achieved enlightenment [1200+] The Exorcist has achieved enlightenment [1200+] The Exorcist has achieved enlightenment [1200+] The Exorcist has achieved enlightenment [1200+] The Exorcist has achieved enlightenment [1200+] The Exorcist has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Another story that Fox has run has been an orphanage that has over 100 kids, many babies, who have already been adopted by parents in the US. The State department has been doing the usual bang-up job, 18-month delays and all, and had not cleared the evacuation of any of theses kids at all.

Other media outlets will not cover this, I guess they don't want the titular head of the State Department, Hillary "are those my thighs?" Clinton.
No, they didn't spin it that way, that's just my take on it, so bash away.
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Originally Posted by TactiKill J. View Post
...
If your argument is that the government doesn't spy on its own citizens then you're completely oblivious to reality.
"We have reached the stage where satire is prophecy"
-Theodore Dalrymple
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