You are currently viewing our forums as a GUEST. This allows you to read, but not participate in our discussions. This also prevents you from downloading attachments and seeing some of our specialized sub-forums.
Registration is free and painless and requires absolutely no personal information other than a valid email address. :)
You can register for our history forums here. [this reminder disappears once you are registered]
Politics CentralDiscussion of current and exclusive political nature takes place here.
Sponsored by American History magazine.
Based on the writings of Vattel, you must have two US citizen parents and be born in a US state in order to be a Natural-Born Citizen. So to a true Birther Senator McCain can not be a NBC, neither will several possible candidates in 2012.....
Too bad for them that that's not what the law says, huh?
Do you think that if McCain had been elected, we'd be hearing this same nonsense from the birthers? I think not.
Eric
__________________
"No man but a fool ever wrote but for money."
NO he was born in the Panama Canal Zone. BIG difference.
From Wiki
Although the Panama Canal Zone was legally an unincorporated U.S. territory until the implementation of the Torrijos-Carter Treaties in 1979, questions arose almost from its inception as to whether the Zone was considered part of the United States for constitutional purposes, or, in the phrase of the day, whether the Constitution followed the flag. In 1901 the U.S. Supreme Court had ruled in Downes v. Bidwell that unincorporated territories are not the United States.[4] On July 28, 1904, Controller of the Treasury Robert Tracewell stated: "While the general spirit and purpose of the Constitution is applicable to the zone, that domain is not a part of the United States within the full meaning of the Constitution and laws of the country."[5] Accordingly, it was held in 1905 in Rasmussen v. United States that the full constitution only applies for incorporated territories of the United States.[6] Until the rulings in these so-called "Insular Cases", children born of two U.S. citizens in the Canal Zone had been subject to the Naturalization Act of 1795, which granted statutory U.S. citizenship at birth. With the ruling of 1905 persons born in the Canal Zone only became U.S. nationals, not citizens.[7] This no man's land with regard to U.S. citizenship was perpetuated until Congress passed legislation in 1937, which corrected this deficiency. The law is now codified under title 8 section 1403.[8] It not only grants statutory and declaratory born citizenship to those born in the Canal Zone after February 26, 1904, with at least one U.S. citizen parent, but also did so retroactively for all children born of at least one U.S. citizen in the Canal Zone before the law's enactment.[9]
It was not just the angry left that elected him. Many moderates also voted for him and I have life long Republicans in my family that voted for him as well. One that voted GWB twice.
From the interviews I rember Mc Cain giving he was born on Base in the Canal Zone. Which is why the stuff you quoated did not apply. From the ten to twenty lawyers I saw on tv said being on a US base is the same as being in the US.
Too bad for them that that's not what the law says, huh?
Do you think that if McCain had been elected, we'd be hearing this same nonsense from the birthers? I think not.
Eric
Honestly? No...you wouldn't, but ONLY because McCain was asked to show HIS birth certificate, and he did, and the law was behind him. All rumors quashed, no wiggle room for the birthers.
As for IF there were any, why yes...yes there were...
See what Obama could accomplish by merely producing a birth certificate?
__________________ "Who is more irrational? A man who believes in a God he doesn't see, or a man who's offended by a God he doesn't believe in?" -Brad Stine
"Cult of personality got us Obama...intelligence and awareness will get us rid of him." - me
Honestly? No...you wouldn't, but ONLY because McCain was asked to show HIS birth certificate, and he did, and the law was behind him. All rumors quashed, no wiggle room for the birthers.
As for IF there were any, why yes...yes there were...
See what Obama could accomplish by merely producing a birth certificate?
Senator McCain, allowed a WP reporter to see his BC. President Obama allowed Factcheck.org to examine, touch and photograph his HI COLB.
Senator McCain fought several attempts in court to force him to present his BC. Your third like contains a reference to one of the cases, Hollinder v McCain. So why did he fight the lawsuit?
__________________
"There's always going to be a spore on the grassy knoll"
Vahid Majidi of the FBI Weapons of Mass Destruction Directorate
Last edited by Combatengineer; 20 Oct 09 at 06:42..
As I recall, and my memory is fuzzy here because it was about 4 decades back & I'm too lazy to google it, there was a Republican presidential candidate who was born outside the 48 states. Both of his parents were Americans & they had the sense to take the kid to the US embassy to have the paperwork done. Who was this person? I think it was Mitt Romney's father. So, if Mitt wins the Prez in 2012 will these same people claim he ain't a citizen 'cause his Daddy wasn't? God help Mitt if he cries in public like his Daddy did. Still, it would be nice for Obama to pull out the documents in his safety deposit vault and end the controversy.
__________________
"If you are right, then you are right even if everyone says you are wrong. If you are wrong then you are wrong even if everyone says you are right." William Penn.
Well, it looks like the "birther whackadoodles" have at least some support...
Quote:
Department of Justice ("DOJ") attorneys walked into court expecting United States Federal District Court Judge David Carter to dismiss the birth certificate case simply because they "think" Obama is President. Their arguments were hollow and unconvincing, and after hearing hours of argument, Judge Carter "took the matter under submission." He has still not issued a ruling, 10 days later!
I'm telling you...this could ALL go away with a simple move by the Obama administration, yet they refuse to do it. Why? Is he really that full of himself? Senator McCain did it, and killed his own birther movement immediately. What are you waiting for, Obama....
__________________ "Who is more irrational? A man who believes in a God he doesn't see, or a man who's offended by a God he doesn't believe in?" -Brad Stine
"Cult of personality got us Obama...intelligence and awareness will get us rid of him." - me
Senator McCain, allowed a WP reporter to see his BC. President Obama allowed Factcheck.org to examine, touch and photograph his HI COLB.
Senator McCain fought several attempts in court to force him to present his BC. Your third like contains a reference to one of the cases, Hollinder v McCain. So why did he fight the lawsuit?
Because he submitted it when he became a Senator (something Obama never did, only a COLB), and it has been online for quite awhile...
A huge difference between the two. One is an actual account of the birth, done when the child was born. The other is merely a certification, and has no signatures of anyone involved...easily faked, but I'm no document expert.
Next Question?
__________________ "Who is more irrational? A man who believes in a God he doesn't see, or a man who's offended by a God he doesn't believe in?" -Brad Stine
"Cult of personality got us Obama...intelligence and awareness will get us rid of him." - me
A huge difference between the two. One is an actual account of the birth, done when the child was born. The other is merely a certification, and has no signatures of anyone involved...easily faked, but I'm no document expert.
Next Question?
You posting doesn't say anything about Senator McCain releasing those images. Please show the source of them.
You are correct to say that you are not a document expert, none of us are. A CERTIFIED, i.e. with a seal, COLB provides all the necessary information to establish citizenship. Lots of states, MO being one, do not release anything else, to anyone.
You forgot to mention why Senator McCain fought and won the court case that wanted him to provide his BC in open court? What was he hiding?
__________________
"There's always going to be a spore on the grassy knoll"
Vahid Majidi of the FBI Weapons of Mass Destruction Directorate
Well, it looks like the "birther whackadoodles" have at least some support...
I'm telling you...this could ALL go away with a simple move by the Obama administration, yet they refuse to do it. Why? Is he really that full of himself? Senator McCain did it, and killed his own birther movement immediately. What are you waiting for, Obama....
Once again you are incorrect. Senator McCain fought the court case that tried to make him present his BC. He later showed it to one reporter from the WP, that reporter was not allowed to photograph it. The others on the web were posted by someone that claims to have gotten it in Panama, not from the Senator.
__________________
"There's always going to be a spore on the grassy knoll"
Vahid Majidi of the FBI Weapons of Mass Destruction Directorate
Pursuant to Federal Rules of Civil Procedure 12(b)(1) and 12(b)(6), Defendants Senator John McCain and the Republican National Committee (“RNC”) respectfully move this Court to dismiss the First Amended Complaint in its entirety. As set forth in the accompanying Memorandum of Law, Plaintiff’s claims are nonjusticiable—and therefore must be dismissed under Federal Rule of Civil Procedure 12(b)(1)—because Plaintiff lacks standing, all of his claims are either moot or not ripe for adjudication, and his claims may also present a nonjusticiable political question. Moreover, even if Plaintiff’s claims were justiciable, dismissal
would still be required under Federal Rule of Civil Procedure 12(b)(6) for failure to state a claim upon which relief can be granted because Plaintiff’s claims impermissibly infringe upon the First Amendment rights of Senator McCain and the RNC and because neither of the Defendants is a state actor.
Look, he used the same arguments that the President team is using, i.e. Standing, Justifiability etc.... funny...
Well, it looks like the "birther whackadoodles" have at least some support...
I'm telling you...this could ALL go away with a simple move by the Obama administration, yet they refuse to do it. Why? Is he really that full of himself? Senator McCain did it, and killed his own birther movement immediately. What are you waiting for, Obama....
I am wondering about the source of your quote. Seems to be more commentary then news reporting and hardly the stuff upon which one could accurately determine as to whether the "birther whackadoodles" have any support.
__________________ "Who is more irrational? A man who believes in a God he doesn't see, or a man who's offended by a God he doesn't believe in?" -Brad Stine
"Cult of personality got us Obama...intelligence and awareness will get us rid of him." - me
![Eric Wittenberg is walking in the light [200]](images/reputation/reputation_green.gif)
![Eric Wittenberg is walking in the light [200]](images/reputation/reputation_greenh.gif)
![Eric Wittenberg is walking in the light [200]](images/reputation/reputation_gold.gif)
![CPangracs has earned the respect of all [900]](images/reputation/reputation_goldstar.gif)
Linear Mode
