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Go Back   Armchair General and HistoryNet >> The Best Forums in History > Current Events > Russia, Central Asia, and The Caucasus > South Ossetian Conflict

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South Ossetian Conflict Discuss the conflict between Georgia and Russia over South Ossetia.

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  #16  
Old 15 Oct 09, 12:04
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Stalin, of course Ossetians would have stopped if told so. They depend on Russia on their livelihood and ammo. No reason to even bring out the jail card. It is quite obvious that if the paymaster sais stop you stop.

Its not that difficult to understand why Russia didn't say stop.

Georgians saying stop would have had little effect. The peacekeeping mission was a joke in any case.
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  #17  
Old 15 Oct 09, 16:00
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But.. for a moment assume that it wasnīt the Ossetians who started, there is no simple way of telling who did what since both sides shot at each other, and blamed each other. And really what is the Russians going to do? Say that the Ossetians can't shot back? And besides, there was Georgians there as well in that peacekeeping mission

In fact, if you donīt go with some mad conspiracy theory it is difficult to understand.

But the Georgians did, they declared that the conflict would be solved by peaceful means, the next moment they are throwing Grad rockets at the head of the Ossetians (talk about disproportional response!)
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  #18  
Old 15 Oct 09, 18:41
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Originally Posted by Erkki View Post
And really what is the Russians going to do? Say that the Ossetians can't shot back?...
They could have told them not to shoot and not supplied them with weapons. It is after all Georgia.

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Originally Posted by Erkki View Post
In fact, if you donīt go with some mad conspiracy theory it is difficult to understand.
There's no mad conspiracy theory. Its quite simple really.


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Originally Posted by Erkki View Post
But the Georgians did, they declared that the conflict would be solved by peaceful means, the next moment they are throwing Grad rockets at the head of the Ossetians (talk about disproportional response!)
Disproportionate response to what? To what the Georgians said they were responding to, it was IMO far too little and far too late. I hope they can step up their game next time. Unfortunately this is the problem with the report. They didn't do any independent verification or investigation, so while the issues are clearer and I too enjoyed the summary of legal matters on the various aspects, we're not closer to knowing the critical facts - like at what point exactly did the invasion start or at what point Georgians had clear evidence of it happening.
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  #19  
Old 16 Oct 09, 02:07
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Originally Posted by pp(est) View Post
They could have told them not to shoot and not supplied them with weapons. It is after all Georgia.
So they tell them, after being shot at that they canīt shot back. BTW do you know how much weapons SO had in 1991?


And the Georgians that was part of the peacekeeping forces? Was they drunk or something?


Quote:
There's no mad conspiracy theory. Its quite simple really.
So Russia wanted to be attacked, possibly having to take on NATO. Quite high gamble for just some pieces of land.




Quote:
Disproportionate response to what? To what the Georgians said they were responding to, it was IMO far too little and far too late. I hope they can step up their game next time. Unfortunately this is the problem with the report. They didn't do any independent verification or investigation, so while the issues are clearer and I too enjoyed the summary of legal matters on the various aspects, we're not closer to knowing the critical facts - like at what point exactly did the invasion start or at what point Georgians had clear evidence of it happening.
Mortar fire.
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  #20  
Old 17 Oct 09, 14:56
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- they undoubtedly would do so, had the Georgians not attacked in return.
No my point is it ok to hit someone after they hit you first. If Russia had stop the first punch the second one from Georgia wouldnt of been thrown.

So since Russia was not able to stop Ossetia from shelling Georgia they should not of been there and left. Instead they ended up in the middle of a fight and then became part of it. Peace keeper have to be albe to fight both sides not just take the side in this case the Ossetian side. The idea behind the Peace keeper was a good one but the excecution was flawed.
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Old 17 Oct 09, 14:58
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Hmm what was the Georgian part of the Peace keepers doing?
Strangely I havenīt heard to much about them, maybe I just didnīt listen well enough. And honestly... I havenīt read the entire report yet, is there any comments made by them in there?
There are no Georgian Peace keepers. The Georgian army was responding to shelling from Ossetia.
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  #22  
Old 17 Oct 09, 15:05
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But.. for a moment assume that it wasnīt the Ossetians who started, there is no simple way of telling who did what since both sides shot at each other, and blamed each other. And really what is the Russians going to do? Say that the Ossetians can't shot back? And besides, there was Georgians there as well in that peacekeeping mission

In fact, if you donīt go with some mad conspiracy theory it is difficult to understand.

But the Georgians did, they declared that the conflict would be solved by peaceful means, the next moment they are throwing Grad rockets at the head of the Ossetians (talk about disproportional response!)
I personally do not think it was disproportionate. I remember reports of some of the same stuff happening in Chechnya. Wars are about killing people and. Do not start one if you cant fight one. Which is what the Ossetian did because they knew Big Brother (Russia) would come and beat the other guy up. Ossetia I think is like the little guy who mouths off in a bar when all his big friends are standing behind him.

btw I am enoying your guys response thanks
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  #23  
Old 17 Oct 09, 16:19
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There are no Georgian Peace keepers. The Georgian army was responding to shelling from Ossetia.

There was Georgian peace keepers together with Russian and Ossetian, one company of each as I recall., early in the war there was stories about the Georgians opening fire on their fellow peace keepers. However I havenīt heard any confirmation about this and I have not gone into to much effort to do so.
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  #24  
Old 17 Oct 09, 16:22
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btw I am enoying your guys response thanks
Thank you! Glad to hear I at least do some kind of good.
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  #25  
Old 18 Oct 09, 09:19
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they ended up in the middle of a fight and then became part of it
...just like American troops in Kosovo
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  #26  
Old 18 Oct 09, 13:47
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...just like American troops in Kosovo
No in Kosovo the US stopped the aggressor which was the Serbians. Remember earlier during that conflict Danish Peace keeper were held hostage and forced to hand over there protectees to be slaughtered. Granted there were bad act by both sides over there but the Serbs were the worse offenders In Ossetia as far as I can tell in the report most of the bad behavior is on the Ossetians side as far as treatment of civilians. Hence the Russian Peace keeper should of been more concerned with them than Georgia.

Also in the US most American did not want to go into Kosovo as it was a European problem and they should of dealt with it. I have heard no report of NATO forces turning a blind eye to one side while taking action against the other.
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Old 19 Oct 09, 00:27
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most of the bad behavior is on the Ossetians side
- how do we know that is true ?
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  #28  
Old 19 Oct 09, 16:09
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. If the report is to be believed they point out Ossetian attack against Georgia followed by counter attacks by Georgia.


They latter point out that most of the Cleasnsing was ethinic Georgians living in Ossetia being displaced. So if the Georgian were doing the same thing the Ossetian side faild to docuement it or the report writers failed to find it on the same scale as displaced Georgians.
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Old 19 Oct 09, 16:34
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the report
- it blames both sides...
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Old 20 Oct 09, 01:29
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- it blames both sides...
Yes it does. but the Ossetian threw the first punch hence they are guilty.

Also which is worse dislpacing one person or displacing 100.
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