HistoryNet.com RSS
ArmchairGeneral.com RSS

HistoryNet.com Articles
America's Civil War
American History
Aviation History
Civil War Times
MHQ
Military History
Vietnam
Wild West
World War II

ACG Online
ACG Magazine
Stuff We Like
War College
History News
Tactics 101
Carlo D'Este
Books

ACG Gaming
Boardgames
PC Game Reviews

ACG Network
Contact Us
Our Newsletter
Meet Our Staff
Advertise With Us

Sites We Support
HistoryNet.com
StreamHistory.com
Once A Marine
The Art of Battle
Game Squad
Mil. History Podcast
Russian Army - WW2
Achtung Panzer!
Mil History Online

Go Back   Armchair General and HistoryNet >> The Best Forums in History > Current Events > Russia, Central Asia, and The Caucasus > South Ossetian Conflict

Notices and Announcements

South Ossetian Conflict Discuss the conflict between Georgia and Russia over South Ossetia.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 03 Oct 09, 22:32
ThereIsOnlyWar's Avatar
ThereIsOnlyWar ThereIsOnlyWar is offline
Recruit
United_States
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Honolulu
Posts: 1
ThereIsOnlyWar is a balanced individual [0]
EU report: Georgian attack started war with Russia

Not sure if people are still following this, but I figured some might find this interesting.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/...6etqQD9B1N8381

Or, for those who prefer a bit more gloating in their news pieces:

http://exiledonline.com/the-czar-of-...mes-toldja-so/

Anyway, enjoy.
Reply With Quote
Facebook Connect and Magazine Promotions

World War II Magazine
$26.95

Armchair General Magazine
$26.95
Military History Magazine
$26.95
  #2  
Old 04 Oct 09, 09:02
Erkki's Avatar
Erkki Erkki is offline
ACG Forums - Field Marshal
Sami
Distinguished Service Award ACG Ten Year Service Award ACG 5 Year Service Ribbon Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign 
 
Real Name: Erik
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Sweden
Posts: 13,975
Erkki is a glorious beacon of light [700]
Erkki is a glorious beacon of light [700] Erkki is a glorious beacon of light [700] Erkki is a glorious beacon of light [700] Erkki is a glorious beacon of light [700] Erkki is a glorious beacon of light [700] Erkki is a glorious beacon of light [700] Erkki is a glorious beacon of light [700] Erkki is a glorious beacon of light [700] Erkki is a glorious beacon of light [700] Erkki is a glorious beacon of light [700] Erkki is a glorious beacon of light [700] Erkki is a glorious beacon of light [700] Erkki is a glorious beacon of light [700] Erkki is a glorious beacon of light [700]
The report itself.

http://www.ceiig.ch/Report.html
__________________
“For there is nothing more serious than a lunatic when he comes to the central point of his lunacy.”

Max Sterner
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 04 Oct 09, 12:03
xiong's Avatar
xiong xiong is offline
Gunnery Sergeant
Russia
ACG 5 Year Service Ribbon 
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Moscow
Posts: 213
xiong is on the path to success [1-99] xiong is on the path to success [1-99] xiong is on the path to success [1-99]
With this report finally out, I believe this South Ossetian Conflict sub-forum should be removed from Current Events.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 04 Oct 09, 16:53
craven's Avatar
craven craven is offline
General of the Forums
United_States
ACG 5 Year Service Ribbon 
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: roslyn
Posts: 7,230
craven is on a distinguished road [300] craven is on a distinguished road [300] craven is on a distinguished road [300] craven is on a distinguished road [300] craven is on a distinguished road [300] craven is on a distinguished road [300] craven is on a distinguished road [300] craven is on a distinguished road [300] craven is on a distinguished road [300] craven is on a distinguished road [300] craven is on a distinguished road [300] craven is on a distinguished road [300] craven is on a distinguished road [300] craven is on a distinguished road [300]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erkki View Post
thanks for the report Erkki been looking for it.

btw did the report change anyones mind or present any new evidence.
Or glaring errors.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 05 Oct 09, 22:11
Widow Maker's Avatar
Widow Maker Widow Maker is online now
Lieutenant Colonel
United_States
ACG Ten Year Service Award ACG 5 Year Service Ribbon 
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Taglios
Posts: 1,472
Widow Maker is walking in the light [200] Widow Maker is walking in the light [200] Widow Maker is walking in the light [200] Widow Maker is walking in the light [200] Widow Maker is walking in the light [200] Widow Maker is walking in the light [200] Widow Maker is walking in the light [200] Widow Maker is walking in the light [200] Widow Maker is walking in the light [200] Widow Maker is walking in the light [200] Widow Maker is walking in the light [200]
Quote:
Originally Posted by xiong View Post
With this report finally out, I believe this South Ossetian Conflict sub-forum should be removed from Current Events.
Any recommendation for a history section to put it in?
__________________
"Put guards on all the roads, and don't let the men run to the rear."
Major General John Buford's final words on his deathbed.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 06 Oct 09, 02:14
stalin's Avatar
stalin stalin is offline
Banned
Russia
ACG 5 Year Service Ribbon 
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: moscow, russia
Posts: 5,953
stalin is walking in the light [200] stalin is walking in the light [200] stalin is walking in the light [200] stalin is walking in the light [200] stalin is walking in the light [200] stalin is walking in the light [200] stalin is walking in the light [200] stalin is walking in the light [200] stalin is walking in the light [200] stalin is walking in the light [200] stalin is walking in the light [200] stalin is walking in the light [200] stalin is walking in the light [200]
Quote:
Originally Posted by xiong View Post
this South Ossetian Conflict sub-forum should be removed
- i second that .
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 07 Oct 09, 14:23
pp(est)'s Avatar
pp(est) pp(est) is offline
Major General
Estonia
ACG Ten Year Service Award ACG 5 Year Service Ribbon Summer Campaign 
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Estland/Fennia
Posts: 2,744
pp(est) is walking in the light [200] pp(est) is walking in the light [200] pp(est) is walking in the light [200] pp(est) is walking in the light [200] pp(est) is walking in the light [200] pp(est) is walking in the light [200] pp(est) is walking in the light [200] pp(est) is walking in the light [200] pp(est) is walking in the light [200] pp(est) is walking in the light [200] pp(est) is walking in the light [200] pp(est) is walking in the light [200]
Quote:
Originally Posted by craven View Post
thanks for the report Erkki been looking for it.

btw did the report change anyones mind or present any new evidence.
Or glaring errors.
Not really. Unfortunately they didn't do much independent research as I was hoping. It looks like they just gathered material from the sides and interviewed some higher officials. I was expecting for a more hands on approach with witness interviews and more access to actual intel material (I guess the latter was an unreasonable expectation, as I doubt neither side is willing to disclose anything that might jeopardize future operations).

AP for example did not include the qualifier present in the report that the shelling would have been legal if it was found that SO was bombarding the villages or that Russian troops had in fact initiated the invasion. Two critical facts which they say they don't have sufficient information to determine. Other such important questions left unanswered is whether Georgians attacked the Russian troops in SO first or vice versa.

The report is a good collection of claims made by both sides and the relevant legal arguments. Thanks Erkki for digging it up.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 09 Oct 09, 16:29
xiong's Avatar
xiong xiong is offline
Gunnery Sergeant
Russia
ACG 5 Year Service Ribbon 
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Moscow
Posts: 213
xiong is on the path to success [1-99] xiong is on the path to success [1-99] xiong is on the path to success [1-99]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Widow Maker View Post
Any recommendation for a history section to put it in?
Sorry, no idea. Let the moders decide. Maybe create something like Post-Cold War conflicts in Europe?
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 10 Oct 09, 12:59
craven's Avatar
craven craven is offline
General of the Forums
United_States
ACG 5 Year Service Ribbon 
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: roslyn
Posts: 7,230
craven is on a distinguished road [300] craven is on a distinguished road [300] craven is on a distinguished road [300] craven is on a distinguished road [300] craven is on a distinguished road [300] craven is on a distinguished road [300] craven is on a distinguished road [300] craven is on a distinguished road [300] craven is on a distinguished road [300] craven is on a distinguished road [300] craven is on a distinguished road [300] craven is on a distinguished road [300] craven is on a distinguished road [300] craven is on a distinguished road [300]
Quote:
Originally Posted by pp(est) View Post
Not really. Unfortunately they didn't do much independent research as I was hoping. It looks like they just gathered material from the sides and interviewed some higher officials. I was expecting for a more hands on approach with witness interviews and more access to actual intel material (I guess the latter was an unreasonable expectation, as I doubt neither side is willing to disclose anything that might jeopardize future operations).

AP for example did not include the qualifier present in the report that the shelling would have been legal if it was found that SO was bombarding the villages or that Russian troops had in fact initiated the invasion. Two critical facts which they say they don't have sufficient information to determine. Other such important questions left unanswered is whether Georgians attacked the Russian troops in SO first or vice versa.

The report is a good collection of claims made by both sides and the relevant legal arguments. Thanks Erkki for digging it up.
I agree about the independent research.
The things I got from this is the Russians fail to keep the peace ie shelling of Georgia and then failed to prevent the seperatist from committing bad acts after repelling Georgian forces.

Everything else it pretty convoluted. Although I did find the stuff about how Russia was violating international laws with passports and such interesting since I never knew half of those things were laws. (btw that not russian bashing there I just found all the rules and justisfications interesting.)

I also think they did a decent job of trying to raise the bar for charges of genocide which I see thrown around way to much.


Once again thanks Erikki
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 13 Oct 09, 15:20
xiong's Avatar
xiong xiong is offline
Gunnery Sergeant
Russia
ACG 5 Year Service Ribbon 
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Moscow
Posts: 213
xiong is on the path to success [1-99] xiong is on the path to success [1-99] xiong is on the path to success [1-99]
Quote:
Originally Posted by craven View Post
I agree about the independent research.
The things I got from this is the Russians fail to keep the peace ie shelling of Georgia and then failed to prevent the seperatist from committing bad acts after repelling Georgian forces.

Everything else it pretty convoluted. Although I did find the stuff about how Russia was violating international laws with passports and such interesting since I never knew half of those things were laws. (btw that not russian bashing there I just found all the rules and justisfications interesting.)

I also think they did a decent job of trying to raise the bar for charges of genocide which I see thrown around way to much.


Once again thanks Erikki
From your post it looks like you were specifically looking for evidence against Russia. "Whoever looks for something, will always find something" as a Russian proverb goes.

For example, the shelling was certainly two-way (S.O -> G and G -> S.O.). How was the joint (mind you) peacekeeping force stationed in S.O. meant to prevent shelling from G.?
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links

  #11  
Old 13 Oct 09, 20:39
craven's Avatar
craven craven is offline
General of the Forums
United_States
ACG 5 Year Service Ribbon 
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: roslyn
Posts: 7,230
craven is on a distinguished road [300] craven is on a distinguished road [300] craven is on a distinguished road [300] craven is on a distinguished road [300] craven is on a distinguished road [300] craven is on a distinguished road [300] craven is on a distinguished road [300] craven is on a distinguished road [300] craven is on a distinguished road [300] craven is on a distinguished road [300] craven is on a distinguished road [300] craven is on a distinguished road [300] craven is on a distinguished road [300] craven is on a distinguished road [300]
No most of the stuff against Russia I just wrote off to nit picking I did not see a lot of stuff against Georgia in the Report that can not be considered nit picking.

The shelling as I understand came mainly from the Ossetians with replies from Georgia. So if Russia would of stoped the shelling from the Ossetian then Georgia would not shelled Ossetia. That my understanding of situation. In general I think the Russian peace keepers should not of been there and Russia allowed Georgia to deal with a internal issue as it saw fit as Russia did in Chechnya.


The failure of the Russian army to try and protect all civilians no matter there back ground was a major failure on their part after invading. If they did protect ethinic Georgians I did not see it in the report.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 14 Oct 09, 17:25
stalin's Avatar
stalin stalin is offline
Banned
Russia
ACG 5 Year Service Ribbon 
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: moscow, russia
Posts: 5,953
stalin is walking in the light [200] stalin is walking in the light [200] stalin is walking in the light [200] stalin is walking in the light [200] stalin is walking in the light [200] stalin is walking in the light [200] stalin is walking in the light [200] stalin is walking in the light [200] stalin is walking in the light [200] stalin is walking in the light [200] stalin is walking in the light [200] stalin is walking in the light [200] stalin is walking in the light [200]
Quote:
Originally Posted by craven View Post
if Russia would of stoped the shelling from the Ossetian then Georgia would not shelled Ossetia
- and you think the Ossetians would have stopped there shelling if told to ?
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 14 Oct 09, 17:40
craven's Avatar
craven craven is offline
General of the Forums
United_States
ACG 5 Year Service Ribbon 
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: roslyn
Posts: 7,230
craven is on a distinguished road [300] craven is on a distinguished road [300] craven is on a distinguished road [300] craven is on a distinguished road [300] craven is on a distinguished road [300] craven is on a distinguished road [300] craven is on a distinguished road [300] craven is on a distinguished road [300] craven is on a distinguished road [300] craven is on a distinguished road [300] craven is on a distinguished road [300] craven is on a distinguished road [300] craven is on a distinguished road [300] craven is on a distinguished road [300]
Quote:
Originally Posted by stalin View Post
- and you think the Ossetians would have stopped there shelling if told to ?

I thought that was the job of the peace keeper to prevent violence. So tell them or jail and hand them over to the courts.

Last edited by GCoyote; 20 Oct 09 at 02:16.. Reason: fixed quote tags
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 14 Oct 09, 19:18
Erkki's Avatar
Erkki Erkki is offline
ACG Forums - Field Marshal
Sami
Distinguished Service Award ACG Ten Year Service Award ACG 5 Year Service Ribbon Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign 
 
Real Name: Erik
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Sweden
Posts: 13,975
Erkki is a glorious beacon of light [700]
Erkki is a glorious beacon of light [700] Erkki is a glorious beacon of light [700] Erkki is a glorious beacon of light [700] Erkki is a glorious beacon of light [700] Erkki is a glorious beacon of light [700] Erkki is a glorious beacon of light [700] Erkki is a glorious beacon of light [700] Erkki is a glorious beacon of light [700] Erkki is a glorious beacon of light [700] Erkki is a glorious beacon of light [700] Erkki is a glorious beacon of light [700] Erkki is a glorious beacon of light [700] Erkki is a glorious beacon of light [700] Erkki is a glorious beacon of light [700]
Quote:
Originally Posted by craven View Post

I thought that was the job of the peace keeper to prevent violence. So tell them or jail and hand them over to the courts.
Hmm what was the Georgian part of the Peace keepers doing?
Strangely I havenīt heard to much about them, maybe I just didnīt listen well enough. And honestly... I havenīt read the entire report yet, is there any comments made by them in there?
__________________
“For there is nothing more serious than a lunatic when he comes to the central point of his lunacy.”

Max Sterner
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 15 Oct 09, 07:57
stalin's Avatar
stalin stalin is offline
Banned
Russia
ACG 5 Year Service Ribbon 
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: moscow, russia
Posts: 5,953
stalin is walking in the light [200] stalin is walking in the light [200] stalin is walking in the light [200] stalin is walking in the light [200] stalin is walking in the light [200] stalin is walking in the light [200] stalin is walking in the light [200] stalin is walking in the light [200] stalin is walking in the light [200] stalin is walking in the light [200] stalin is walking in the light [200] stalin is walking in the light [200] stalin is walking in the light [200]
Quote:
Originally Posted by craven View Post
tell them or jail and hand them over to the courts
- they undoubtedly would do so, had the Georgians not attacked in return.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Please bookmark this thread if you enjoyed it!


Thread Tools
Display Modes



Forum Jump

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 22:42.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.