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  #166  
Old 21 Sep 09, 12:35
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That's absurd. It's not that the US hates Muslims: we like oil. They got it -- we want it. Whatever idiotic piddling the US has done in the Middle East has been about resource issues, not religious.
Hardly! Do we see many rants about the oli rich Arabs and the bad Arab terrorist? Nope, but all those bad, mad Islamist that are out to get us, except those with powerful friends in American politics, since retired. Those baddies are our friends and allies. Me thinks your doing butter bar thinking, but ya got your butt promoted.

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  #167  
Old 21 Sep 09, 12:46
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That's just politics. No president is going to talk down the corrupt Saudi leadership; Obama bowed to them. Politicians need a common enemy to focus the nation on, and "Islamic terrorists" is the term of the times. Of course, under Chicago Slick's weird definition, there now are no "terrorists" or "terrrorist attacks", merely "man-made disasters", like the one in the White House.
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  #168  
Old 21 Sep 09, 13:28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Half Pint View Post
Hardly! Do we see many rants about the oli rich Arabs and the bad Arab terrorist? Nope, but all those bad, mad Islamist that are out to get us, except those with powerful friends in American politics, since retired. Those baddies are our friends and allies. Me thinks your doing butter bar thinking, but ya got your butt promoted.
I'm supposed to be getting me a second silver bar soon, but I have no idea when. Perhaps I've pi$$ed off my battalion CO once too many times.

If you put it like that, then the US has had a love affair with Wahhab-inspired extremism, especially as it was useful in Afghanistan against the Soviets, and in Gaza and the West Bank against Fatah. Rumor has it that the Uighars of Western China have been plied with some of that Wahhab crap, and that the US knew about the plying, and said absolutely nothing, thus giving tacit approval for the dissemination of Wahhabist extremism.

It's kind of funny, 'cause while it has motivated specific violent and deadly incidents, that kind of al Qaeda-think has not succeeded in destabilizing a single established regime anywhere in the Middle East. Perhaps Wahhab extremism is seen by the powers-that-be, in Washington, in Jerusalem, in London, even in Riyadh, as a painful and potentially lethal nuisance, but certainly no threat to the staus quo. Damn, that sure sounds cynical, doesn't it?

Whether that's the case or not, I haven't the faintest, but it sure makes for some curious speculation, doesn't it?
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  #169  
Old 21 Sep 09, 13:45
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I'm supposed to be getting me a second silver bar soon, but I have no idea when. Perhaps I've pi$$ed off my battalion CO once too many times.
Dang, that would be two beers that I owe you. 0-3 slickMight have to start treating you with some respect.

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  #170  
Old 21 Sep 09, 13:50
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Some Muslims are taught to hate. They are not just taught to hate America but also other Muslims such as Sunnis hating Shiites and vice versa. Taught to hate Jews and Christians and all those who do not conform to their view of what Islam should be.
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  #171  
Old 21 Sep 09, 13:50
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Whether that's the case or not, I haven't the faintest, but it sure makes for some curious speculation, doesn't it?
Two of our Best Allies in the Middle East, Israel and Saudi. The one the seat of the most radical form of Islam and the other a nation than radical Islam wants to wipe of the map. No wonder the Middle Eastern countries are confused about our foreign policy
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  #172  
Old 21 Sep 09, 14:18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Half Pint View Post
Two of our Best Allies in the Middle East, Israel and Saudi. The one the seat of the most radical form of Islam and the other a nation than radical Islam wants to wipe of the map. No wonder the Middle Eastern countries are confused about our foreign policy
There's really nothing that should be confusing. What the US wants is to maintain stability in an oil rich region by following the old formula the British used in Europe of preventing one European country from achieving hegemony. In this case it's one Arab or non-Arab country from achieving that hegemony. Israel is the wild card here. Back in 1947 the US State dept. was dead set against the creation of a Jewish homeland in Palestine but Truman was 'talked' into accepting the idea (some say he was urged to in not so very polite terms). When support for Israel became a Cold war issue the US has become a victim of it's own policy.
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  #173  
Old 21 Sep 09, 14:24
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Originally Posted by slick_miester View Post
How's it hanging, Bugreport. It's been a while seen you've been seen in these precincts..
Just "Got Out" after doing time in this forum's version of Azkaban.

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That's a grossly oversimplified view of the matter.
I agree it is, but even the Alevis still accept the Quran and Mohammed,
and call themselves Muslims (It's not what others call you, it what you
call yourself) and given what is wriiten in the Quran and the historical facts on the acts of the Prophet, I think it a justified "grossly oversimplified view"
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  #174  
Old 21 Sep 09, 14:42
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Originally Posted by Mountain Man View Post
but they already have. It was reported some time back that new versions of the Koran which validated terrorism were being circulated in the Middle East. IIRC, they contained additional notes by highly placed fundamentalist immams that "explained" what the relevant passages "really meant".
"Islam for dummies?"

The Quran is always changing, but it always taught the the book is
unchanged, Sana'a manuscripts, found in Yemen in 1972 show changes
from the modern version.
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  #175  
Old 21 Sep 09, 14:54
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A very interesting article...

The house where the Prophet received the word of God is gone and nobody cares

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...ge-501647.html

Gaz
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  #176  
Old 21 Sep 09, 15:31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bugreport View Post
"Islam for dummies?"

The Quran is always changing, but it always taught the the book is
unchanged, Sana'a manuscripts, found in Yemen in 1972 show changes
from the modern version.
No - Islam that validates terrorism.

The Koran cannot change. Any Muslim who changes the written word of Allah is guilty of an apostasy for which the only sentence is death. Annotation and "explanations" in the margin are permissible in some circles, but that's all.
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  #177  
Old 22 Sep 09, 10:44
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Originally Posted by bass_man86 View Post
If I may add a tidbit CK, there is great deal of irony in the vast amounts of similarities between Judaism and Islam and even more irony in the view that Islam and Christianity are diametrically opposed, as we routinely refer to the USA as a country was shaped by its Judeo-Christian values.
The similarities between Islam and Judaism may be due to the fact that one progressed and the other regressed in a montheistic sense. Another irony is of course that the Jews who are more similar to the Muslims are the group that the Quran says should be destroyed.
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  #178  
Old 22 Sep 09, 10:47
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Originally Posted by Half Pint View Post
Two of our Best Allies in the Middle East, Israel and Saudi. The one the seat of the most radical form of Islam and the other a nation than radical Islam wants to wipe of the map. No wonder the Middle Eastern countries are confused about our foreign policy
There are major differencers in the relationship so the conflating of the two is a bit overdone. My wife and I can go into Israel, have a glass of wine and then worship in one of the Christian churches there. We cannot do that in Saudi Arabia.
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  #179  
Old 22 Sep 09, 11:23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyberknight View Post
The similarities between Islam and Judaism may be due to the fact that one progressed and the other regressed in a montheistic sense. Another irony is of course that the Jews who are more similar to the Muslims are the group that the Quran says should be destroyed.
In fact, Allah commanded his followers to respect the Jews and Christians, recognizing the concept that all religions arose from the same source.
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  #180  
Old 22 Sep 09, 14:03
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Originally Posted by Mountain Man View Post
In fact, Allah commanded his followers to respect the Jews and Christians, recognizing the concept that all religions arose from the same source.
Problem is that is over ruled by later commands telling them to kill and/or
enslave them.

In the Quran when 2 principals of action are written, the last written
principal overrules the first.

That's why there are no "moderate" muslims, except in western wishful
thinking.
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