HistoryNet.com RSS
ArmchairGeneral.com RSS

HistoryNet.com Articles
America's Civil War
American History
Aviation History
Civil War Times
MHQ
Military History
Vietnam
Wild West
World War II

ACG Online
ACG Magazine
Stuff We Like
War College
History News
Tactics 101
Carlo D'Este
Books

ACG Gaming
Boardgames
PC Game Reviews

ACG Network
Contact Us
Our Newsletter
Meet Our Staff
Advertise With Us

Sites We Support
HistoryNet.com
StreamHistory.com
Once A Marine
The Art of Battle
Game Squad
Mil. History Podcast
Russian Army - WW2
Achtung Panzer!
Mil History Online

Go Back   Armchair General and HistoryNet >> The Best Forums in History > Historical Events & Eras > Vietnam War

Notices and Announcements

Vietnam War The Battle for Vietnam. .

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #16  
Old 03 Sep 09, 16:25
altus's Avatar
altus altus is offline
Major General
Viet_Nam
5 Year Service Ribbon 
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: In the wires.
Posts: 2,861
altus is walking in the light [200] altus is walking in the light [200] altus is walking in the light [200] altus is walking in the light [200] altus is walking in the light [200] altus is walking in the light [200] altus is walking in the light [200] altus is walking in the light [200] altus is walking in the light [200] altus is walking in the light [200] altus is walking in the light [200] altus is walking in the light [200]
Quote:
Originally Posted by KEN JENSEN View Post
I checked out your links and didn't find any UNIQUE GOOD DEED story performed by this person as to providing Humanitarian aid to South Vietnamese "civilians".
If you followed the link to Amazon, and clicked "Search inside this book", you'd find footnotes which state she provided care to South Vietnamese civilians as well.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 03 Sep 09, 16:46
KEN JENSEN's Avatar
KEN JENSEN KEN JENSEN is offline
General of the Forums - Departed Hero & Friend
United_States
ACG Order of Valiant Honor Distinguished Service Award 5 Year Service Ribbon 
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: BOISE, IDAHO
Posts: 5,051
KEN JENSEN is a glorious beacon of light [700]
KEN JENSEN is a glorious beacon of light [700] KEN JENSEN is a glorious beacon of light [700] KEN JENSEN is a glorious beacon of light [700] KEN JENSEN is a glorious beacon of light [700] KEN JENSEN is a glorious beacon of light [700] KEN JENSEN is a glorious beacon of light [700] KEN JENSEN is a glorious beacon of light [700] KEN JENSEN is a glorious beacon of light [700] KEN JENSEN is a glorious beacon of light [700] KEN JENSEN is a glorious beacon of light [700] KEN JENSEN is a glorious beacon of light [700] KEN JENSEN is a glorious beacon of light [700] KEN JENSEN is a glorious beacon of light [700]
Quote:
Originally Posted by altus View Post
If you followed the link to Amazon, and clicked "Search inside this book", you'd find footnotes which state she provided care to South Vietnamese civilians as well.
hmmm, I did that but didn't see "footnotes". I'll try again.

__________________
1st ID, 1/28th '67/'68 Phouc Vinh & Quan Loi
Skirmishes Bu Dop Dec-67, An My, Thu Duc Feb-68
Plt. Ldr - CIB, Purple Hearts, Silver Star
What we write can be considered to be a reflection of our SOUL providing others to know our CHARACTER.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 03 Sep 09, 16:54
KEN JENSEN's Avatar
KEN JENSEN KEN JENSEN is offline
General of the Forums - Departed Hero & Friend
United_States
ACG Order of Valiant Honor Distinguished Service Award 5 Year Service Ribbon 
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: BOISE, IDAHO
Posts: 5,051
KEN JENSEN is a glorious beacon of light [700]
KEN JENSEN is a glorious beacon of light [700] KEN JENSEN is a glorious beacon of light [700] KEN JENSEN is a glorious beacon of light [700] KEN JENSEN is a glorious beacon of light [700] KEN JENSEN is a glorious beacon of light [700] KEN JENSEN is a glorious beacon of light [700] KEN JENSEN is a glorious beacon of light [700] KEN JENSEN is a glorious beacon of light [700] KEN JENSEN is a glorious beacon of light [700] KEN JENSEN is a glorious beacon of light [700] KEN JENSEN is a glorious beacon of light [700] KEN JENSEN is a glorious beacon of light [700] KEN JENSEN is a glorious beacon of light [700]
Quote:
Originally Posted by KEN JENSEN View Post
hmmm, I did that but didn't see "footnotes". I'll try again.

Went back and checked it out - I'm still missing it. Maybe you can provide the proper LINK Altus.
__________________
1st ID, 1/28th '67/'68 Phouc Vinh & Quan Loi
Skirmishes Bu Dop Dec-67, An My, Thu Duc Feb-68
Plt. Ldr - CIB, Purple Hearts, Silver Star
What we write can be considered to be a reflection of our SOUL providing others to know our CHARACTER.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 03 Sep 09, 17:14
altus's Avatar
altus altus is offline
Major General
Viet_Nam
5 Year Service Ribbon 
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: In the wires.
Posts: 2,861
altus is walking in the light [200] altus is walking in the light [200] altus is walking in the light [200] altus is walking in the light [200] altus is walking in the light [200] altus is walking in the light [200] altus is walking in the light [200] altus is walking in the light [200] altus is walking in the light [200] altus is walking in the light [200] altus is walking in the light [200] altus is walking in the light [200]
Quote:
Originally Posted by KEN JENSEN View Post
Went back and checked it out - I'm still missing it. Maybe you can provide the proper LINK Altus.
Just do a find for the word "civilians", and you'd get these:





In the meantime, I've found an interesting account by the guy I think was that Vietnamese interpreter who convinced Fred Whitehurst to keep her diaries instead of burning them. It will take me some time to translate it, so please stay tuned.

Altus
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 03 Sep 09, 18:04
Chippymick's Avatar
Chippymick Chippymick is offline
Banned
Australia
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 1,498
Chippymick is a balanced individual [0] Chippymick is a balanced individual [0] Chippymick is a balanced individual [0] Chippymick is a balanced individual [0] Chippymick is a balanced individual [0] Chippymick is a balanced individual [0] Chippymick is a balanced individual [0] Chippymick is a balanced individual [0] Chippymick is a balanced individual [0] Chippymick is a balanced individual [0] Chippymick is a balanced individual [0] Chippymick is a balanced individual [0] Chippymick is a balanced individual [0] Chippymick is a balanced individual [0] Chippymick is a balanced individual [0]
Quote:
Originally Posted by altus View Post
Well, you see, Ken, part of the problem is, what kind of stories of good deeds on the part of the PAVN/PLAF would you now, A.D. 2009, or your side, during the War, admit as authentic and not propaganda?

I've seen too many efforts in bringing this up concluded by summary verdicts from "your camp": "Oh, everyone know this is staged propaganda!". Do I have to name those on this forum I predict such comments would come from?

Moral headwinds and such? Fair enough. But don't be surprised if we don't bother.
Hi Altus

Have you been on the angry pills again?

I really do think that you are out of the blocks too early on this one.

Cheers

Mick
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links

  #21  
Old 03 Sep 09, 18:22
altus's Avatar
altus altus is offline
Major General
Viet_Nam
5 Year Service Ribbon 
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: In the wires.
Posts: 2,861
altus is walking in the light [200] altus is walking in the light [200] altus is walking in the light [200] altus is walking in the light [200] altus is walking in the light [200] altus is walking in the light [200] altus is walking in the light [200] altus is walking in the light [200] altus is walking in the light [200] altus is walking in the light [200] altus is walking in the light [200] altus is walking in the light [200]
Mick, sure I was a little too preemptive.

Ken, I've found the English version of the articles. Here is an excerpt that I find relevant to this topic.

http://www.thanhniennews.com/feature...10&newsid=9884

Quote:
There was nothing particular about them, except a wound in a middle aged man's leg which drew the American doctor Mc Lain's attention. He asked the man through me about the person that had performed the operation. The doctor explained the shrapnel had caused a deep cut on the man's right thigh, which, without proper, timely styptics and sutures, would have left him unable to move his leg. I noticed the meticulous stitches in the man's wound. Mc Lain could not believe that somebody without specialized medical knowledge had done such an exacting operation. The man replied that a girl in his neighborhood who had studied nursing in Quang Ngai did it. Mc Lain whistled, filled with admiration for the girl's awesome feat.

But I did not think so. Lingering, I asked the man: "Doctors from the Liberation force sutured your wound, right?" The man pretended not to hear my question, and only after a while did he reluctantly answer: "To tell you the truth, without them, I would not have survived," adding it took two hours to reach the local clinic, which was even harder with guns firing. "It's hard to survive if one loses so much blood. Besides, getting to the clinic, with inadequate medication, was no help. Without her, I could not have made it through till now", the man said.

He explained further that after that day's raid at Dang mountain, helicopters kept hovering around, with people seeking shelter in pits or lying still. After a while, the moans of those injured by shrapnel were heard. People bandaged the injured and thought of carrying them to the clinic but could not due to the shelling. Then a voice announced over the loudspeaker: "Just stay where you are, help is coming." A dozen people approached us from the jungle, with nurses briskly tending to the wounded. "A northern, woman doctor applied styptics and sutured my wounds. They left instantly, before we could even say thanks," the man recalled.

It was pitiful to see my [Giai's] compatriots living in the Free Fire Zone. Kinship and communal bonds with people fighting for the Viet Cong apparently kept them there though their homes were set on fire for no reason, they lacked security, and were harassed by the local [US-backed] government.

Outsiders could never understand their patriotism and special bonds. "Thank heavens, the people at Dang mountain came on time," the middle-aged man murmured. I'll pray for them.

I knew who he was referring to.
You can read more about the story here (quite lengthy):

http://www.thanhniennews.com/feature...10&newsid=9676

http://www.thanhniennews.com/feature...10&newsid=9749

http://www.thanhniennews.com/feature...10&newsid=9753

http://www.thanhniennews.com/feature...10&newsid=9762

http://www.thanhniennews.com/feature...10&newsid=9779

http://www.thanhniennews.com/feature...10&newsid=9797

http://www.thanhniennews.com/feature...10&newsid=9838

http://www.thanhniennews.com/feature...10&newsid=9884

http://www.thanhniennews.com/feature...10&newsid=9912

Quote:
Guns had been fired relentlessly at a coastal village since morning that day. I supposed the M113 armored vehicles were supporting a wing of the 4/3 Battalion on a raid. It started to rain, the cold rain of August. The platoon was about to return when they spotted two local women carrying a stretcher, followed by another with a baby. When asked, the woman with a baby told us her son had been shot by US troops and they were taking him to hospital.

The bloody figure on the stretcher lay still. Sergeant Herrera, the platoon nurse, took a look at the boy and hurriedly waved for the jeep. Watson, William, Herrera, Nelson and I put the injured boy, his mother, and baby brother in the vehicle, which headed for Dang, the mountain where the US Medical Army's 1st Battalion was stationed. It was raining hard.

Watson and Herrera hastily rushed the boy into the emergency theater while we waited outside. But the boy had to be transferred to a hospital in Chu Lai in neighboring Quang Nam province. The 40-minute trip by helicopter would increase his chances of survival. Herrera, Watson, and William pooled all the money they had and told me to give it to the boy's mother, who reluctantly took it and thanked them.

If not for meeting us, the woman would have carried her son straight to the surgery station run by the liberation force. The station, where Dang Thuy Tram was the chief surgeon, was extremely popular in the neighborhood.

"Doctor Tram, we took away one of your patients this afternoon," I told myself. At that time, injured residents living outside the pacified areas were all tended by Tram. A wide region, from Tam Cop mount, Pho Binh, Rice Bowl, Pho Trang, to An Khe lagoon all bore the footsteps of the devoted doctor. I supposed Tram belonged to a civilian platoon which also took care of locals' health in the liberated zones besides treating wounded soldiers. On the map, the sites Tram had been operating seemed highly vulnerable to American raids. But the local people, who were poor but traditionally intrepid, and rough terrains had provided shelter for Tram's surgery team and the rescue workers.

I am certain many people in Quang Ngai's Duc Pho commune, where Tram worked and perished, remember her and her good deeds even now. The US troops had paid for information on her, pursued her in desperate attempts to kill her. The US Infantry's 4th Division, 11th Brigade, American Division (or the 23rd Infantry Division), and the 101 Cavalry Division combed the area many times but failed to kill or capture her team.

For Danny L. Jacks, chief of the Oregon Long Range Reconnaissance Team, who considered Tram a legend and me, Tram and her dedication to locals and her country's revolution live on for ever.

Last edited by altus; 03 Sep 09 at 18:26..
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 03 Sep 09, 19:01
Chippymick's Avatar
Chippymick Chippymick is offline
Banned
Australia
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 1,498
Chippymick is a balanced individual [0] Chippymick is a balanced individual [0] Chippymick is a balanced individual [0] Chippymick is a balanced individual [0] Chippymick is a balanced individual [0] Chippymick is a balanced individual [0] Chippymick is a balanced individual [0] Chippymick is a balanced individual [0] Chippymick is a balanced individual [0] Chippymick is a balanced individual [0] Chippymick is a balanced individual [0] Chippymick is a balanced individual [0] Chippymick is a balanced individual [0] Chippymick is a balanced individual [0] Chippymick is a balanced individual [0]
Yes Altus

Pre-emptively derailed a thread.

The National Liberation Front established itself as an alternative government. With the assistancve of the NVA it tried to establish liberated zones where the front could assume political power and form a paralell government.

With political power comes responsibilities. Health care under communism being one of them.

That they stitched up one of their constituents is a non-story.

Big whoopy doop.

The fact that many veterans organisations and individuals in Australia (and elsewhere) are still ENGAGED IN AID PROGRAMS IN VIETNAM TODAY, says all you need to know about the effectiveness of the NLF in meeting its long term goals.

The party hasn't only been kicking into a 'moral headwind' and the scoreboard reflects that.

Cheers

Mick

Last edited by Chippymick; 03 Sep 09 at 21:20..
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 03 Sep 09, 19:03
KEN JENSEN's Avatar
KEN JENSEN KEN JENSEN is offline
General of the Forums - Departed Hero & Friend
United_States
ACG Order of Valiant Honor Distinguished Service Award 5 Year Service Ribbon 
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: BOISE, IDAHO
Posts: 5,051
KEN JENSEN is a glorious beacon of light [700]
KEN JENSEN is a glorious beacon of light [700] KEN JENSEN is a glorious beacon of light [700] KEN JENSEN is a glorious beacon of light [700] KEN JENSEN is a glorious beacon of light [700] KEN JENSEN is a glorious beacon of light [700] KEN JENSEN is a glorious beacon of light [700] KEN JENSEN is a glorious beacon of light [700] KEN JENSEN is a glorious beacon of light [700] KEN JENSEN is a glorious beacon of light [700] KEN JENSEN is a glorious beacon of light [700] KEN JENSEN is a glorious beacon of light [700] KEN JENSEN is a glorious beacon of light [700] KEN JENSEN is a glorious beacon of light [700]
Altus,

I am overjoyed by the fact that my faith in "people", no matter their personal beliefs (ideologically), still have the desire to help others in need. I salute the fine warrior you have provided to us.

__________________
1st ID, 1/28th '67/'68 Phouc Vinh & Quan Loi
Skirmishes Bu Dop Dec-67, An My, Thu Duc Feb-68
Plt. Ldr - CIB, Purple Hearts, Silver Star
What we write can be considered to be a reflection of our SOUL providing others to know our CHARACTER.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 03 Sep 09, 21:58
Encirclement's Avatar
Encirclement Encirclement is offline
Sergeant
United_States
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Washington D.C.
Posts: 82
Encirclement is on the path to success [1-99] Encirclement is on the path to success [1-99]
Altus,

You need to play it straight here, bro. The "round eyes" (excuse my politically incorrect language) may not have live under the regime. But I did. I did not leave until the late 80s and I was in my late teen. I remember it well. Everything was staged - from the phony election to the phony harvest.

Do you remember the "food shortage" in the late 70s? Some people exaggerated and call it a "famine." I am honest; it was not a famine, just a food shortage. But not a single radio station, newspaper, or TV mentioned this "food shortage" which was obvious to everyone. If you watch the media; every year was a bumper crop? Lovely scene of yellow rice stalks being harvested is showed. Where were the food? Every factory was portrayed as successful while the whole economy was in the tank. You and I both know that during that period; the whole country depend on remittance from overseas. If my aunt and uncle did not send us money and goods, we would have starved.

Have you seen a country with so many slogans? Every street corner, every walls, every billboards - all slogans. You cannot walk ten meters without running into a slogan.

I have no doubt that there was occasional good charitable deeds being done. But when everything you do is for the purpose of propaganda, it is very difficult (if not impossible) to tell the truth from falsehood. Don't blame those poor "round eyes," blame the policy of falsehood and propaganda.

Unlike Miss Saigon because I do not hold a drudge. She still think herself as a citizen of Vietnam but I see myself as American; so I am not as emotional.
However I must point out that your reaction was unwarranted. People doubt and suspicion was very reasonable given pattern of history.

I promise that I won't pretend the Saigon regime was a bastion of freedom if you won't pretend that the Hanoi regime is an oasis of honesty and integrity.
__________________
"May the fleas of a thousand camels infest your crotch and may your arms be to short to scratch" (Arab Proverb)

Last edited by Encirclement; 03 Sep 09 at 22:12..
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 04 Sep 09, 03:22
altus's Avatar
altus altus is offline
Major General
Viet_Nam
5 Year Service Ribbon 
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: In the wires.
Posts: 2,861
altus is walking in the light [200] altus is walking in the light [200] altus is walking in the light [200] altus is walking in the light [200] altus is walking in the light [200] altus is walking in the light [200] altus is walking in the light [200] altus is walking in the light [200] altus is walking in the light [200] altus is walking in the light [200] altus is walking in the light [200] altus is walking in the light [200]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chippymick View Post
With political power comes responsibilities. Health care under communism being one of them.

That they stitched up one of their constituents is a non-story.

Big whoopy doop.
Should I then assume that every good deeds that Allied and South Vietnamese forces ever did in South Vietnam fall into this blanket category of yours?
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 04 Sep 09, 04:11
Chippymick's Avatar
Chippymick Chippymick is offline
Banned
Australia
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 1,498
Chippymick is a balanced individual [0] Chippymick is a balanced individual [0] Chippymick is a balanced individual [0] Chippymick is a balanced individual [0] Chippymick is a balanced individual [0] Chippymick is a balanced individual [0] Chippymick is a balanced individual [0] Chippymick is a balanced individual [0] Chippymick is a balanced individual [0] Chippymick is a balanced individual [0] Chippymick is a balanced individual [0] Chippymick is a balanced individual [0] Chippymick is a balanced individual [0] Chippymick is a balanced individual [0] Chippymick is a balanced individual [0]
Quote:
Originally Posted by altus View Post
Should I then assume that every good deeds that Allied and South Vietnamese forces ever did in South Vietnam fall into this blanket category of yours?
No you may not assume that.

The first line of Jensen's post said Aside from all the Atrocities and Collateral damage that happens to civilians in any war

Clearly this thread has been started as some sort of balance to the recent My Lai thread. The intention is obvious.

You and I both know that Vietnam was not the My Lai everyday that is so often portrayed.

The South Vietnamese Government was at war with the NLF. The NLF was subsumed by the North after 1975.

The legitimate Government of the South were prevented from attending to the welfare of the people because of communist inspired violence. If you want to start an atrocity and propaganda thread, I'll meet you there.

I'm quite proud of my Communist propaganda collection from the sixties.

I can do VC atrocities extremely well, I just choose not to.

Start another thread Altus, this one is for the good guys.

Regards

Mick.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 04 Sep 09, 05:57
altus's Avatar
altus altus is offline
Major General
Viet_Nam
5 Year Service Ribbon 
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: In the wires.
Posts: 2,861
altus is walking in the light [200] altus is walking in the light [200] altus is walking in the light [200] altus is walking in the light [200] altus is walking in the light [200] altus is walking in the light [200] altus is walking in the light [200] altus is walking in the light [200] altus is walking in the light [200] altus is walking in the light [200] altus is walking in the light [200] altus is walking in the light [200]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Encirclement View Post
if you won't pretend that the Hanoi regime is an oasis of honesty and integrity.
Oh, I have never said that. Nor I have any intention to get into debates on the legitimacy, me good you evil, who killed more who raped less. Specific events, people and their stories are what I'm after.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 04 Sep 09, 05:59
altus's Avatar
altus altus is offline
Major General
Viet_Nam
5 Year Service Ribbon 
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: In the wires.
Posts: 2,861
altus is walking in the light [200] altus is walking in the light [200] altus is walking in the light [200] altus is walking in the light [200] altus is walking in the light [200] altus is walking in the light [200] altus is walking in the light [200] altus is walking in the light [200] altus is walking in the light [200] altus is walking in the light [200] altus is walking in the light [200] altus is walking in the light [200]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chippymick View Post
Clearly this thread has been started as some sort of balance to the recent My Lai thread. The intention is obvious.
I'd be obliged if Ken could confirm this. In that case I apologize for any derailing and will stay out.

Quote:
If you want to start an atrocity and propaganda thread, I'll meet you there.
No, Mick, I don't.

Best,

Altus
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 04 Sep 09, 06:51
Chippymick's Avatar
Chippymick Chippymick is offline
Banned
Australia
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 1,498
Chippymick is a balanced individual [0] Chippymick is a balanced individual [0] Chippymick is a balanced individual [0] Chippymick is a balanced individual [0] Chippymick is a balanced individual [0] Chippymick is a balanced individual [0] Chippymick is a balanced individual [0] Chippymick is a balanced individual [0] Chippymick is a balanced individual [0] Chippymick is a balanced individual [0] Chippymick is a balanced individual [0] Chippymick is a balanced individual [0] Chippymick is a balanced individual [0] Chippymick is a balanced individual [0] Chippymick is a balanced individual [0]
Altus what I think Ken is getting at are those examples of Soldiers who went above and beyond their duty to act in a humanitarian way in a time of war. I think the examples of Coffey, Clarke, McEwan-Ferguson and Malone are valid. They didn’t have to do what they did.

Awards and Decorations are still a sore point for Australian Servicemen today. They were hard to get. Because of the quota system (that occurred after I might add, Coffey, Clarke, McEwan-Ferguson and Malone received their awards.) awards to Pogo’s or in US parlance REMF’s were resented by those who risked more at the sharp end. Nevertheless awards were made for a job well done.

The good thing about awards and decorations is that they come with a citation. Citations tell a little bit of a story as to how and why the recipient was worthy of special acclamation. They make fascinating reading. Here are a few examples to illustrate my point and hopefully Ken’s as well.

Here is Charles Hilton’s citation.



Now although Hilton is a very good guy, I don’t think that he meets Ken’s criteria. Hilton did a great job but he did it on the company time for the company dollar. Great guy did a lot of good but just falls short.


Here’s John Kennard’s



Nobody made him organize sporting fixtures with local South Vietnamese Towns. He wasn’t compelled to create goodwill through sporting contact. This one gets my tick.

Have a look at Alex McMaster’s






Nobody made him go and fix complex medical gear in his spare time, he gets a tick.

This is Anthony Williams. It really needs no further comment.






Now lest I be accused of being selective or cherry picking, I must confess, I did.

I have only used ‘Pommy bastards’ as examples.

Williams was born in Cardiff Wales

Kennard from Hastings in England

McMaster, Glasgow, Scotland

Hilton a Lancashire man from Chorley, England

The facts are that there were some very good men involved in what was a very nasty war. For every Calley there were a hundred Williams, and Kennards, and McMasters and Hiltons. For evey award to the Williams, and Kennards, and McMasters and Hiltons, there were dozens deserving on the same basis who just went home with a warm feeling that no one ever noticed

I think that, that was Ken’s point.

Ken should be along shortly to adjudicate

Cheers

Mick

Last edited by Chippymick; 04 Sep 09 at 07:56.. Reason: grammar, just for a change
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 04 Sep 09, 12:19
KEN JENSEN's Avatar
KEN JENSEN KEN JENSEN is offline
General of the Forums - Departed Hero & Friend
United_States
ACG Order of Valiant Honor Distinguished Service Award 5 Year Service Ribbon 
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: BOISE, IDAHO
Posts: 5,051
KEN JENSEN is a glorious beacon of light [700]
KEN JENSEN is a glorious beacon of light [700] KEN JENSEN is a glorious beacon of light [700] KEN JENSEN is a glorious beacon of light [700] KEN JENSEN is a glorious beacon of light [700] KEN JENSEN is a glorious beacon of light [700] KEN JENSEN is a glorious beacon of light [700] KEN JENSEN is a glorious beacon of light [700] KEN JENSEN is a glorious beacon of light [700] KEN JENSEN is a glorious beacon of light [700] KEN JENSEN is a glorious beacon of light [700] KEN JENSEN is a glorious beacon of light [700] KEN JENSEN is a glorious beacon of light [700] KEN JENSEN is a glorious beacon of light [700]
This is to all members who wish to post in this thread. The sheer act of war brings out the WORST and the BEST in people. Most folks seem to cling to the "blood and guts" stories of war (i.e. the media, authors, historians, politicians and their minions, and yes even members of this forum). In the past, I've had heated debates (within this forum) regarding all the NEGATIVE press that came out of Vietnam during the "American War" in Vietnam.

Yes, war is HELL and it should be reported (without bias) so all can get some idea as to what is happening.
Lt. Calley (and other atrocities) are examples of the WORST. The debates I had with Paul Mann III was all about the media and it's one sided bias as to how terrible us Americans were and how terrible our Politicians and Military Leaders were (this too was the WORST). Yet many, many GOOD acts were performed by the Military folks that were never reported.

My intentions, for this thread, is to bring out the GOOD found in ALL PEOPLES that shine through in the middle of war; and hopefully use this forum as an aid in spreading the word about excellent acts performed by Individual and/or Units, no matter as to which ARMY they belonged to.

As for Altus, I'm sure his definition of "civilians" is probably a little different than mine (e.g. NLF folks to me were not civilians - but I would bet that Altus feels they were civilians). Well I believe we are both right. In most villages I had the unfortunate experience to patrol, there were a fair share of NLF folks (who lived in the villages) along with their relatives (men, women, and children). As long as these folks did not have weapons, or hidden caches of military supplies, they were civilians and deserved fair treatment. None, I repeat, NONE deserved to be shot or executed on the spot because they were in possession of such military related supplies - there were proper military procedures to be followed, and a lot of intel to be gained by gathering the suspects up and turning them over to the proper folks. Even after gathering up the suspects, our medical folks (mission permitting) would tend to the needy (yes, even the relatives of the suspects were included as needy).

As for Chippy, you have your points of contention and/or bias, some naturally are justified; but you should not bring it out in this thread. As by example, I more or less, guided Altus to show more information in regard to the Diary of his GOOD Dr. that related to her GOOD DEEDS performed in South Vietnamese villages. Altus did provide more information to where I felt she did indeed do GOOD DEEDS (i.e. setting up medical clinic, training others in medical care, and performing of surgery on village folks). Didn’t matter to me that these village folks may have been NLF supporters or not. Hell a lot of folks within villages were torn as to what side of the war to support (can you blame them? – NO!).

As to adjudication, not my job folks; however you may anticipate I may arbitrate things that may be getting out of hand for this thread.

I do believe that Altus may have to struggle more and dig more in order for him to contribute GOOD DEEDS performed by “his side”. Hell it was tough enough for those fighters to get enough supplies for their own needs, let alone supplies and construction equipment for them to do the GOOD DEEDS that “our side” could, and did do!

As long as Altus restrains himself from making “sharp” comments that he knows will bring about discontent, I will give him some leeway as to his definition of “civilian”. Chippy, I know you are aware as to the situation and difficulties that Altus may have in trying to bring forth GOOD DEEDS. I’m sure that you believe, as I do, that MOST folks (as individuals) have compassion and will provide help/assistance to others no matter their ideology.

Cheers, Mick and Altus – go forth and gather more GOOD DEEDS!


__________________
1st ID, 1/28th '67/'68 Phouc Vinh & Quan Loi
Skirmishes Bu Dop Dec-67, An My, Thu Duc Feb-68
Plt. Ldr - CIB, Purple Hearts, Silver Star
What we write can be considered to be a reflection of our SOUL providing others to know our CHARACTER.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links

Reply

Please bookmark this thread if you enjoyed it!


Thread Tools
Display Modes



Forum Jump

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:28.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.