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Weapons of War The machinery of warfare. .

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  #1  
Old 24 Aug 09, 23:43
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Semi Automatic Rifles//Self Loading Rifles of World War 1 Which one is your favorite

Whats your favorite semiautomatic//self loading rifle of ww1?

Backstory:
World War 1 is not known for semiautomatic//automatic rifles mainly due to the enduring legacy of the Lee Enfield, Mauser, Lebel, Carcanno, Malincher and many, many more (bolt action rifles). This is probably due to two reasons 1.) They were generally unreliable. 2.) Most soldiers got bolt action rifles. These are the semiautomatic rifles I know of. If there are others please add on.

FRANCE:
The Meunier Rifle
This Rifle was a result of a impressive self loading rifle program, it was accurate and very modern in its time. The Meunier was planned to replace the obsolescent Lebel but in 1913, such rearmament was cancelled due to the premises of the a "impending war" as the high command put it. They were not wrong. The Meunier was later produced as a stop gap for the forth-coming RSC 1917. Approximately 6500 were made, give or take a few hundred.
http://www.cruffler.com/MeunierM1916.jpg

The RSC 1917
The cheaper form of the Meunier, the RSC 1917 used parts from both Berthier and Lebel in its construct. The Rifle was also fairly accurate and had many modern designs combined into it. The gun however was known to suffer from frequent stoppages (due to mechanical failings) and it was quite unwieldy. Although surprisingly it could handle the trench conditions pretty well (Dirt wasn't a problem apparently). The gun was only given to the best marksmen and squad leaders and the lucky poliu who got to use this gun had to go to "school" just to use this gun properly. 86,333 were made, the RSC 1917 was superseded by the RSC 1918. This was the first semiautomatic rifle issued in great numbers.
http://world.guns.ru/rifle/rsc1917-1.jpg

The RSC 1918
A major improvement of the RSC 1917, The RSC 1918 was a lighter, shorter and more reliable then its predecessor. The Rifle was shortened and mechanical parts were refined in the RSC 1918 and it proved its worth and gave excellent service in the Riff War. only 9500-20000 were made depending on the source. Technically the gun did not see action or saw very limited action in ww1, but it was adopted during the war thus giving it a place on this list.
http://world.guns.ru/rifle/rsc1918-1.jpg

Both the RSC 1917 and 1918 were converted into bolt actions later on by unplugging the gas port. Though some guns were simply unplugged in order to return it to its original form. It was prominent in colonial troops and possibly the Gardes Mobiles.

RUSSIA
Fedorov Advomat
The Fedorov Advomat was truly a weapon way ahead of its time. It is arguably a (possibly the first) predecessor of the assault rifle. However there is this Italian rifle than dates back further apparently. The Fedorov Advomat was adopted in 1915 and used japanesse surplus ammo. The gun saw very limited action in World War 1, though it did see subsequent action in the Russian Civil War and the Winter War. About 3200 were produced.
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/w...6/fedorov1.jpg

GERMANY
Mondragon Rifle
The Mondragon arguably was more of a dream then an actual practicality.
see Cruffler.com for more info on that. The Mondragon was by all regards, unreliable. Dirt jammed it easily, everything had to be in perfect working order, it had poor accuracy and it had gas fouling problems. Yet, it deserves a good name for two reasons 1.)For 19th century standards, it was innovative and 2.) It was the first serious attempt to arm a army with semi automatic rifles (though it didn't work out to well)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...%B3n_rifle.jpg

There was another german semiautomatic rifle, model 15 or something, it was highly advanced for its time though it was very expensive to produce.

USA
Browning Automatic Rifle
The BAR is not remembered for WW1, and for good reason, it saw almost no action in the great war (as the high command worried about it bieng captured). It would later make its career in WW2. A reliable gun, though it seems more a support weapon than a individual rifle. Over 100,000 were made.
http://www.imfdb.org/images/a/ae/BAR.jpg
(Like we need a picture)

Weapons for consideration: Though not adopted
Both the British and Italians also had thier share of experimenting with semi automatic rifles though the Faqular Hill had a poor showing and the Italian version also had failed to impress the governments that tested it.

Wow, that took a while.

Last edited by Agoodhelmet; 25 Aug 09 at 00:58..
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  #2  
Old 25 Aug 09, 00:01
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The BAR.
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Old 25 Aug 09, 09:07
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That's easy,the BAR.
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Old 26 Aug 09, 01:21
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Yes, the BAR, but there is one you did not mention.
The Pedersen device, I will try to get some info on this for you... when my connection is working better.

Didn't Britain have one in the works?
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Old 26 Aug 09, 01:23
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Here it is;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedersen_device
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Old 26 Aug 09, 05:21
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Bar
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Old 26 Aug 09, 11:46
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Old 27 Aug 09, 00:29
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Thanks for the info on the Pendersen. I never heard of it till now. Seems like the wonder weapon it described as. The add on's weight and purpose reminds me of the R.S.C 1917. The add on's combined weight of 14 pounds is close to the RSC 1917 obstensible weight of 11.5 pounds. Purpose wise, such modifications made bolt actions, semiautomatics.
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Old 28 Aug 09, 14:10
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I understand that the .30 (7.62mm) short round they were talking about for the Pedersen device, was something similar to the M1 carbine .30 caliber round. Basically a pistol round. The Pedersen device never made it to the field, but if it had, it would have made the Springfield '03 a very very long submachine gun.

The first practical submachine gun, the Bergman, availble in WWI, seemed a better proposition. Of course, I don't think the US army knew existed.

Last edited by Hugojose; 28 Aug 09 at 14:14..
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