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Spy Wars Reconnaissance, deception and intelligence are all vital aspects of warfare, ancient and modern - discuss these aspects here!

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  #76  
Old 20 Jun 14, 10:10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nickuru View Post
I must alert everyone here to the end of the world according to the Mayan calendar predicted at the winter solstice on December 21st. This event exceeds the Millenium 2000 event.

The solstice coincides with the alignment of the galactic centre of the Milky Way galaxy, the Sun and Earth. Also Venus, Earth and the Sun are aligned at this time. I must consult my astrologer! I will prepare beers and libations to chase away these evil spirits.
When the debris was gathered up, the tinfoil, paper, tape, and sticks made a bundle about three feet long and 7 or 8 inches thick, while the rubber made a bundle about 18 or 20 inches long and about 8 inches thick. In all, he estimated, the entire lot would have weighed maybe five pounds. There was no sign of any metal in the area which might have been used for an engine, and no sign of any propellers of any kind, although at least one paper fin had been glued onto some of the tinfoil. There were no words to be found anywhere on the instrument, although there were letters on some of the parts. Considerable Scotch tape and some tape with flowers

I've now expanded string theory to include string, tinfoil, and Flowered Scotch tape theory.
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  #77  
Old 20 Jun 14, 12:15
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Originally Posted by marktwain View Post
When the debris was gathered up, the tinfoil, paper, tape, and sticks made a bundle about three feet long and 7 or 8 inches thick, while the rubber made a bundle about 18 or 20 inches long and about 8 inches thick. In all, he estimated, the entire lot would have weighed maybe five pounds. There was no sign of any metal in the area which might have been used for an engine, and no sign of any propellers of any kind, although at least one paper fin had been glued onto some of the tinfoil. There were no words to be found anywhere on the instrument, although there were letters on some of the parts. Considerable Scotch tape and some tape with flowers

I've now expanded string theory to include string, tinfoil, and Flowered Scotch tape theory.
Not to mention that Mac Brazell hadn't thought it worth mentioning at all until he heard there had been a reward offered.
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  #78  
Old 26 Jul 14, 21:48
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Roswell, UFOs and Project Pandora

EXCERPTS:
Well, now, this is interesting. In fact, it’s very interesting. Over at the Department of Defense’s website you can find a file that has been declassified via the Freedom of Information Act on the subject of Project Pandora (which, to a significant degree, was focused on Cold War secrets, and how microwaves can affect the mind and body).

It’s a fascinating file that dates back decades. It’s a lengthy file, too; it runs to nearly 500 pages and is comprised of a number of notable documents. But, here’s the weird thing, if you scroll down to page 449, you’ll see that it contains a copy of the controversial “MJ12/Eisenhower Briefing Document” on the Roswell UFO affair of 1947!

Of course, as most people within Ufology know, the document is one that has been the subject of much debate regarding its authenticity or otherwise. Indeed, the copy of the EBD in the Pandora file has a hand-written note on it stating that: “This cannot be authenticated as an official DoD document.”

Well, that’s fair enough, and something that most people within Ufology would agree with – it has not been authenticated. But, here’s the issue, what is a copy of the EBD doing in a DoD file on Project Pandora? Let’s look at what we know.

One of the biggest problems surrounding the Roswell case is the almost complete lack of documentation to support the claims that anything crashed or landed on the Foster Ranch, Lincoln County in July 1947.

In 1987, however, the situation changed drastically. In that year, Timothy Good’s best-selling book, Above Top Secret, was published. One of the most controversial aspects of the book was the discussion of a document that allegedly originated with a classified research and development group established by the U.S. Government in 1947 to deal with the incident at Roswell. It was – so the story goes – variously known as Majestic 12, MAJIC 12, and MJ12.

Classified “Top Secret/Majic Eyes Only,” the document can essentially be broken down into two parts. The first is a 1952 briefing prepared by Admiral Roscoe H. Hillenkoetter (the first Director of the CIA) for President-elect Eisenhower. It informed the president that an alien spacecraft was recovered at Roswell and briefed him on the MJ12 group, its activities and membership.

The second is a 1947 memorandum from President Harry Truman to Secretary of Defense James Forrestal, authorizing the establishment of MJ12.

Shortly after Timothy Good published copies of the MJ12 documents in May 1987, additional copies surfaced publicly, this time in the United States, having been released by the research team of William Moore, Stanton Friedman and television producer, Jaime Shandera. Moore worked quietly with a number of intelligence insiders who contacted him in the wake of the publication of the 1980 book he co-authored with Charles Berlitz, The Roswell Incident.
....
The copies of the MJ12 documents contained in the DoD’s Project Pandora file (as you will see in the link contained in the first line of this article) also have a similar message written on them, which reads: “This cannot be authenticated as an official DoD document.”

Logic suggests the message was written (probably) around the end of 1988, which is when the Air Force and the FBI were busily adding near-identical messages to their copies.
....
So, what we have here is a file on a program that dates back to the early 1960s and which was focused on major concerns that the Soviets were up to no good – as they clearly were. But, even so, that still does not provide the answer to an important question: why is a very controversial, questionable, document on dead aliens, crashed UFOs, and an allegedly highly-classified project to investigate both, contained in a DoD file on that old, Cold War operation instigated by the Russians?

I have no real answers to what we might term “The Mystery of Microwaves and MJ12.” Maybe someone out there knows.
...
http://mysteriousuniverse.org/2014/0...oject-pandora/


Curious. Seems like out of place documentation for this file.
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  #79  
Old 04 Aug 14, 14:17
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This subject will probably never go away, and whenever I add my opinion to the discussion it doesn't really make much difference--but here goes anyway!
I am forever skeptical of all the conspiracy theories about this and other similar subjects, and I think with good reason. One thing that people have trouble with is trying to make sense of the government's response to this type of story, which in my experience can be broken down like this:

1) Something happened, the government says nothing happened, therefore they are covering it up.
2) Something happened, the government says something else happened, therefore they're lying.
3) Nothing happened, the gov. says nothing -- once again it's a cover up.
4) Nothing happened, the gov. says something did, they're lying.
Lastly 5) Something happened, the government says exactly what did happen, but somehow they are still lying.

I can't think of any more logical possibilities, but the gist is that there is no response from the government that will be accepted by certain people no matter what they say or don't say.

One thing that conspiracy theorists fail to account for is that nothing happened and there's nothing the government could or should say about it.

I said 'from my experience' and when most people discussing this subject say that they have no experience...they know what they've read and heard, and that's about it. They have zero first-hand experience in any way. In my case, I have 3 years in the USAF working at Area 51, which is direct first-hand knowledge of a big part of this story. In my experience there is nothing like this that exists, and in fact the number one response of actual government employees when they hear about the UFO story is laughter. The government says nothing because it's not the government's job to tell people that the story they believe is crazy, so they don't respond at all. They are not covering it up, there's just nothing to say about it and if they did say something the same people would just think they're lying anyway. In fact it works in the government's favor, because they can conduct secret weapon's tests on new technology and be confident that many people will think exactly the wrong thing about what's going on. I know that when I worked there, I probably could have told a Roswell-theorist directly what kind of secret project I worked on and all the details I wanted to and they wouldn't believe me but would instead insist, on the strength of their zero experience, that their story is the real truth. I do know for a fact that we ridiculed people regularly who believed in this type of story.

I just like to throw that out there because occasionally I get the urge to try throwing a dissenting opinion out there and see if it sticks.
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  #80  
Old 28 Oct 14, 20:47
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I believe that the UFO phenomenon could very well be a cover up for certain military experimentations regarding aircraft for war time use. I mean, if you realize that people are watching your experimental top-secret aircraft fly about in the desert, and they are claiming that what they are seeing is an "alien" UFO, why wouldn't you go along with it to maintain a shroud over the truth that its just a military aircraft. I mean, there does seem to be a boom in UFO sightings in the 50's and 60's and whether or not the military planted these stories to keep the truth hidden by planting an impossible, unknowing disguise (alien aircraft) that would seem to be perfectly logical. Especially, knowing the Russians were keeping tabs on everything going on in our country it would just conjure up confusion among the U.S and Russia. Whether or not, they believed this sort of theory i don't know.
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  #81  
Old 28 Oct 14, 20:50
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Originally Posted by mjd23 View Post
I believe that the UFO phenomenon could very well be a cover up for certain military experimentations regarding aircraft for war time use. I mean, if you realize that people are watching your experimental top-secret aircraft fly about in the desert, and they are claiming that what they are seeing is an "alien" UFO, why wouldn't you go along with it to maintain a shroud over the truth that its just a military aircraft. I mean, there does seem to be a boom in UFO sightings in the 50's and 60's and whether or not the military planted these stories to keep the truth hidden by planting an impossible, unknowing disguise (alien aircraft) that would seem to be perfectly logical. Especially, knowing the Russians were keeping tabs on everything going on in our country it would just conjure up confusion among the U.S and Russia. Whether or not, they believed this sort of theory i don't know.
The spooks have said they were happy with the UFO nuts hanging around, it guaranteed the maximum misinterpretation of any sightings.
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  #82  
Old 30 Oct 14, 13:10
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Originally Posted by OpanaPointer View Post
The spooks have said they were happy with the UFO nuts hanging around, it guaranteed the maximum misinterpretation of any sightings.
Exactly. When I worked there we were actually concerned about Soviets. They were known to have people working in places like Las Vegas, where almost all the people who worked at these secret sites lived, socialized etc. There was also ongoing concern about Soviet satellites, and we had to be aware every day of where they were and what time they might be overhead. There was no concern whatsoever about UFOs, aliens, or anything else of that nature. There was a government cover up, but it was typical military secrecy and with good reason: new technology starts to become obsolete when an enemy knows you have it and begins to develop countermeasures.
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  #83  
Old 30 Oct 14, 15:04
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Originally Posted by Steve573 View Post
This subject will probably never go away, and whenever I add my opinion to the discussion it doesn't really make much difference--but here goes anyway!
I am forever skeptical of all the conspiracy theories about this and other similar subjects, and I think with good reason. One thing that people have trouble with is trying to make sense of the government's response to this type of story, which in my experience can be broken down like this:

1) Something happened, the government says nothing happened, therefore they are covering it up.
2) Something happened, the government says something else happened, therefore they're lying.
3) Nothing happened, the gov. says nothing -- once again it's a cover up.
4) Nothing happened, the gov. says something did, they're lying.
Lastly 5) Something happened, the government says exactly what did happen, but somehow they are still lying.

I can't think of any more logical possibilities, but the gist is that there is no response from the government that will be accepted by certain people no matter what they say or don't say.

One thing that conspiracy theorists fail to account for is that nothing happened and there's nothing the government could or should say about it.

I said 'from my experience' and when most people discussing this subject say that they have no experience...they know what they've read and heard, and that's about it. They have zero first-hand experience in any way. In my case, I have 3 years in the USAF working at Area 51, which is direct first-hand knowledge of a big part of this story. In my experience there is nothing like this that exists, and in fact the number one response of actual government employees when they hear about the UFO story is laughter. The government says nothing because it's not the government's job to tell people that the story they believe is crazy, so they don't respond at all. They are not covering it up, there's just nothing to say about it and if they did say something the same people would just think they're lying anyway. In fact it works in the government's favor, because they can conduct secret weapon's tests on new technology and be confident that many people will think exactly the wrong thing about what's going on. I know that when I worked there, I probably could have told a Roswell-theorist directly what kind of secret project I worked on and all the details I wanted to and they wouldn't believe me but would instead insist, on the strength of their zero experience, that their story is the real truth. I do know for a fact that we ridiculed people regularly who believed in this type of story.

I just like to throw that out there because occasionally I get the urge to try throwing a dissenting opinion out there and see if it sticks.
Unfortunately for your premise that "nothing happened", there is overwhelming documentation that a greet deal did happen, and that has never been in contention, things like the military reaction, the issuance of a protocol for dealing with UFO's, the transportation of unknown cargo under heavy military guard to Wright-Paterson AFB, and the formation of the ultra secret Majestic12 group.

The only controversy in in what the initiating event was, and we know again from analysis of the government explanations that the government's cover story does not withstand even cursory examination.

So the correct answer to your presentation is that something happened, and the government initiated a cover-up.
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  #84  
Old 30 Oct 14, 15:33
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So, you believe MJ12 actually existed? And that mysterious cargo might be alien space craft?
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Old 31 Oct 14, 11:46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve573 View Post
Exactly. When I worked there we were actually concerned about Soviets. They were known to have people working in places like Las Vegas, where almost all the people who worked at these secret sites lived, socialized etc. There was also ongoing concern about Soviet satellites, and we had to be aware every day of where they were and what time they might be overhead. There was no concern whatsoever about UFOs, aliens, or anything else of that nature. There was a government cover up, but it was typical military secrecy and with good reason: new technology starts to become obsolete when an enemy knows you have it and begins to develop countermeasures.
No doubt about 98% of the purpose and focus of "Area 51" would have been 'conventional' R&D of developing and "Top Secret" terrestrial tech, but then we come across the occasional ...

Former Area 51 scientist claims aliens, UFOs exist. Pictures shown as proof [Video]

What's a dying man to lose or gain from telling the truth? Nothing. This adds credibility to the words of Boyd Bushman, former Area 51 scientist who spilled the beans on aliens and UFOs in his last days.
Bushman died on Aug. 7 but not before speaking with Mark Q. Patterson, an aerospace engineer, about the work Bushman did over the years, most especially his experience in Area 51.
...
http://www.techtimes.com/articles/19...roof-video.htm


Former Lockheed Martin engineer from Texas: I met aliens at Area 51

In death, everyone can hear you ramble on YouTube.
A video featuring Texas man Boyd Bushman, a former Lockheed Martin and Texas Instruments engineer who died Aug. 7 at age 78, describing his encounters with "aliens" while working at Area 51 has been making the rounds on social media and news sites.
In the video, shot by an aerospace engineer named Mark Q. Patterson and posted Oct. 21, Bushman shows several out-of-focus and blurry photos taken with a disposable camera of what he claims are aliens.
...
http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/loc...#photo-7074565




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