HistoryNet.com RSS
ArmchairGeneral.com RSS

HistoryNet.com Articles
America's Civil War
American History
Aviation History
Civil War Times
MHQ
Military History
Vietnam
Wild West
World War II

ACG Online
ACG Magazine
Stuff We Like
War College
History News
Tactics 101
Carlo D'Este
Books

ACG Gaming
Boardgames
PC Game Reviews

ACG Network
Contact Us
Our Newsletter
Meet Our Staff
Advertise With Us

Sites We Support
HistoryNet.com
StreamHistory.com
Once A Marine
The Art of Battle
Game Squad
Mil. History Podcast
Russian Army - WW2
Achtung Panzer!
Mil History Online

Go Back   Armchair General and HistoryNet >> The Best Forums in History > Historical Events & Eras > Warfare by Other Means > Spy Wars

Notices and Announcements

Spy Wars Reconnaissance, deception and intelligence are all vital aspects of warfare, ancient and modern - discuss these aspects here!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #46  
Old 18 Dec 11, 18:16
OpanaPointer's Avatar
OpanaPointer OpanaPointer is offline
General of the Forums
United_States
ACG 5 Year Service Ribbon 
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: St. Louis
Posts: 11,682
OpanaPointer gives and gets respect [800] OpanaPointer gives and gets respect [800]
OpanaPointer gives and gets respect [800] OpanaPointer gives and gets respect [800] OpanaPointer gives and gets respect [800]
Blanchard, Marcel and Haut should be taught in every PAO and Intell beginners class. Marcel was so concerned with security over a possible UFO that he took bits of it home to the wife and kid. Haut wrote up a press release based on preliminary and incomplete information, and Col. Blanchard released it. A trifecta of facepalms.
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old 18 Dec 11, 22:24
G David Bock's Avatar
G David Bock G David Bock is offline
General of the Forums
United_States
ACG Ten Year Service Award ACG 5 Year Service Ribbon Best Pin-Up Of World War II Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role Aircraft C 
Tournament 1 of the ACG 2017-2018 
 
Real Name: G David Bock
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Bellingham, Washington
Posts: 15,443
G David Bock has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] G David Bock has set a fine example for others to follow [1000]
G David Bock has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] G David Bock has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] G David Bock has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] G David Bock has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] G David Bock has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] G David Bock has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] G David Bock has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] G David Bock has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] G David Bock has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] G David Bock has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] G David Bock has set a fine example for others to follow [1000]
Both the USAF and the CIA were "created" as part of the National Securities Act of Sept. 18, 1947. Likely forerunners, AAF and OSS(etc.) knew this was in the making, but I'd suggest both were a bit busy making ready for the transitions coming in a few months to take 'hasty' advantage of what was still a breaking news story not quite a couple of weeks old - Kenneth Arnold's siting of "flying saucers" and the flury of additional "flying discs" stories that popped up in the days following.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History...ates_Air_Force
http://www.fas.org/irp/cia/product/fact97/keyevent.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenneth...bject_Sighting
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old 18 Dec 11, 22:46
G David Bock's Avatar
G David Bock G David Bock is offline
General of the Forums
United_States
ACG Ten Year Service Award ACG 5 Year Service Ribbon Best Pin-Up Of World War II Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role Aircraft C 
Tournament 1 of the ACG 2017-2018 
 
Real Name: G David Bock
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Bellingham, Washington
Posts: 15,443
G David Bock has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] G David Bock has set a fine example for others to follow [1000]
G David Bock has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] G David Bock has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] G David Bock has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] G David Bock has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] G David Bock has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] G David Bock has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] G David Bock has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] G David Bock has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] G David Bock has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] G David Bock has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] G David Bock has set a fine example for others to follow [1000]
That the 509th was our (only) atomic bomb trained Bomber Group is something not widely known nor made public back in the Summer of 1947. Nor would we have wanted to draw attention to this unit, so it's questionable that Roswell would have been the base of choice for such a counter-intel op.

Lacking an effective mid-air refueling capability, the 509 aircraft would have had to deploy to overseas bases close to Soviet territory in order to attack the USSR. At the time we had no clear intel that the Soviets had any similar atomic bomb delivery capability. We wouldn't know that until August;

Excerpt;
The Tu-4 first flew on 19 May 1947, piloted by test pilot Nikolai Rybko.[5] Serial production started immediately, and the type entered large-scale service in 1949. Entry into service of the Tu-4 threw the USAF into a virtual panic, since the Tu-4 possessed sufficient range to attack Chicago, Los Angeles and New York City with a worthwhile load on a one-way mission, and this fear may have informed the maneuvers and air combat practice conducted by US and British air forces in 1948 involving fleets of B-29s.[6] Some limited attempts to develop midair refueling systems were made to extend the bomber's range, but these were fitted to only a few aircraft.
[edit] Public display surprises the West

The aircraft was first displayed during a flyover at the Aviation Day parade on 3 August 1947 at the Tushino Airport in Moscow. Three aircraft flew overhead. It was assumed that these were merely the three B-29 bombers that were known to have been diverted to the USSR during World War II. Minutes later a fourth aircraft appeared. Western analysts then concluded that the Soviets had the capability to reverse-engineer the B-29.[7] The appearance of an obviously Superfortress-derived Tu-70 transport over the crowd removed any doubt about the success of the reverse-engineering task.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tupolev_Tu-4


Also, while we suspected the Soviets were working on an atomic bomb of their own, it wouldn't be until two years later that we had confirmation they'd got it.
EXCERPT;
Through its successful Russian Alsos and the atomic spy ring, the Soviet Union's espionage ultimately led them to conduct the first test of its implosion-type nuclear device, codename First Lightning on 29 August 1949, at Semipalatinsk, Kazakh SSR. With the success of this test, the Soviet Union became the second nation after the United States, to have successfully developed and conduct nuclear tests.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_atomic_bomb_project
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old 19 Dec 11, 01:01
G David Bock's Avatar
G David Bock G David Bock is offline
General of the Forums
United_States
ACG Ten Year Service Award ACG 5 Year Service Ribbon Best Pin-Up Of World War II Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role Aircraft C 
Tournament 1 of the ACG 2017-2018 
 
Real Name: G David Bock
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Bellingham, Washington
Posts: 15,443
G David Bock has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] G David Bock has set a fine example for others to follow [1000]
G David Bock has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] G David Bock has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] G David Bock has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] G David Bock has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] G David Bock has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] G David Bock has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] G David Bock has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] G David Bock has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] G David Bock has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] G David Bock has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] G David Bock has set a fine example for others to follow [1000]
Quote:
Originally Posted by OpanaPointer View Post
Blanchard, Marcel and Haut should be taught in every PAO and Intell beginners class. Marcel was so concerned with security over a possible UFO that he took bits of it home to the wife and kid. Haut wrote up a press release based on preliminary and incomplete information, and Col. Blanchard released it. A trifecta of facepalms.
Hopefully, my two above posts help establish the minset of the times regarding this incident. While reports of "foo-fighters" (from both sides) during the war years and "ghost rockets over Sweden and parts of Europe in 1946" might have set the stage so to speak, the USA military and Intel. communities had not yet set a co-ordinated response plan in place for dealing with what was a new and developing 'media phenomena' in form of "flying saucers"/"flying discs" as set off by Arnold's siting and report of @ ten days prior.

One can see how in the "downsized" military of post-WWII in 1947, those officers retained, still in the habit of exercising initative in prior years, could have acted on their own in an attempt to provide a public service and defuse a 'problem' by making that press release. Only after 'stuff hit the fan' did higher ups realize that the situation could get out of hand and issue countering orders. Can we really believe that the 509th Intel officer (Marcel) was so poor-trained/informed that he didn't know a ballon remains when he found them. He got back late at night from the "crash site" with a car full of exotic material, too late to officially return to base and shared his 'sense of wonder' with family members, not realizing in face of "new phenomena" the security potentials of the time.

I mean, what's the odds that this was some Soviet research device flying and crashing over American territory, or some advanced project of our own? The "metal foil" wouldn't burn (mylar would, or at least melt) and neither tin nor the 'new' aluminum foil would spring back to prior shape after bending, nor do so without showing fold creases.

The oft mis-quoted "Twinning UFO memo" underscores how this whole situation was one in which neither the military nor the 'Intel Services' had a pre-emptive or proactive game plan devised, nor policy in place for local commanders to be guided by. That would come in the months and years to follow with the Roswell incident(s) being the wake-up call and possibilly even the catalyst that hurried along the National Security Act of Sept. 1947. One can read a good assessment of and text of the Twinning memo here; http://www.nicap.org/twining_letter.htm

This would lead to forming of Project Sign, later Project Grudge then Project Blue Book, as part of the program to defuse public concern and/or alarm about 'Flying Saucers/UFOs', and to show the public that their Guvmint (military and Intel) was on top of the situation. I submit that in the Summer of 1947 they weren't and were caught "with their pants down" when something 'not of this Earth' crashed in New Mexico.
Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old 19 Dec 11, 08:43
OpanaPointer's Avatar
OpanaPointer OpanaPointer is offline
General of the Forums
United_States
ACG 5 Year Service Ribbon 
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: St. Louis
Posts: 11,682
OpanaPointer gives and gets respect [800] OpanaPointer gives and gets respect [800]
OpanaPointer gives and gets respect [800] OpanaPointer gives and gets respect [800] OpanaPointer gives and gets respect [800]
Quote:
Originally Posted by G David Bock View Post
This would lead to forming of Project Sign, later Project Grudge then Project Blue Book, as part of the program to defuse public concern and/or alarm about 'Flying Saucers/UFOs', and to show the public that their Guvmint (military and Intel) was on top of the situation. I submit that in the Summer of 1947 they weren't and were caught "with their pants down" when something 'not of this Earth' crashed in New Mexico.
The original material, that not "inflated" by time and later UFO stories, is that a cowboy found a bunch of trash in the desert and a couple of weeks later he heard there was a reward for information on UFOs so he talked to the cops. The Army went out, found some foil, string, rubber, etc., perfectly consistent with a string of weather balloons and radar reflectors, and then they jumped to a conclusion unwarranted by the evidence. Gen. Ramey scolded them soundly for this.

Then, about 25 years later, Dennis is peddling his autopsy story and bumps into Stanton Friedman, who makes his living selling nonsense to gullible people. This is where things start to get silly.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links

  #51  
Old 14 Feb 12, 22:01
G David Bock's Avatar
G David Bock G David Bock is offline
General of the Forums
United_States
ACG Ten Year Service Award ACG 5 Year Service Ribbon Best Pin-Up Of World War II Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role Aircraft C 
Tournament 1 of the ACG 2017-2018 
 
Real Name: G David Bock
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Bellingham, Washington
Posts: 15,443
G David Bock has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] G David Bock has set a fine example for others to follow [1000]
G David Bock has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] G David Bock has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] G David Bock has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] G David Bock has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] G David Bock has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] G David Bock has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] G David Bock has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] G David Bock has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] G David Bock has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] G David Bock has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] G David Bock has set a fine example for others to follow [1000]
Quote:
Originally Posted by OpanaPointer View Post
The original material, that not "inflated" by time and later UFO stories, is that a cowboy found a bunch of trash in the desert and a couple of weeks later he heard there was a reward for information on UFOs so he talked to the cops. The Army went out, found some foil, string, rubber, etc., perfectly consistent with a string of weather balloons and radar reflectors, and then they jumped to a conclusion unwarranted by the evidence. Gen. Ramey scolded them soundly for this.

Then, about 25 years later, Dennis is peddling his autopsy story and bumps into Stanton Friedman, who makes his living selling nonsense to gullible people. This is where things start to get silly.
That's one side/perspective, which allies with the AAF/USAF having come out with three different stories over the years on what happened back then. And it still is founded on making fools of three officers (at least) holding key positions in command structure of what would have been one of the premier/top air combat formations of the day. That's almost as improbable as the "crashed ET craft" explanation is claimed (by some) to be.
509th Composite Group
"
The unit returned to the United States on 6 November 1945, stationed at Roswell Army Airfield, New Mexico, with one of its bombers damaged beyond economical repair in a landing accident in September. Eight additional Silverplate B-29's were delivered to Wendover[n 23] and joined the group in Roswell. Col. William H. Blanchard replaced Col. Tibbets as group commander on 22 January 1946, and also became the first commander of the 509th Bomb Wing. The 509th had the 715th and 830th Bomb Squadrons assigned to it on 6 May 1946, and was redesignated the 509th Bombardment Group, Very Heavy on 10 July. The 320th TCS was inactivated on 19 August.
At Roswell, the 509th became the nuclear strike and deterrence core of the newly formed Strategic Air Command, and was the only unit capable of delivery of nuclear weapons until June 1948, when B-50 Superfortresses were initially deployed. The 509th itself converted to the B-50 and transferred its Silverplate B-29s to the squadrons of the 97th Bombardment Wing at Biggs Air Force Base, Texas.[39]"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/509th_Composite_Group


Also:


Cold War


Early 1946 509th Composite Group B-29 Era patch when unit was assigned to the 58th Bombardment Wing.


In November 1945, the group returned to the United States and was assigned to Roswell Army Air Base, New Mexico. For a brief period of time from January to March 1946 the 509th was assigned to the 58th Bomb Wing at Fort Worth AAF, Texas, before returning to Roswell. The Group was assigned to Strategic Air Command on 21 March 1946, being one of the first eleven organizations assigned to SAC. At the time SAC was formed, the 509th Composite Group was the only unit to have experience with nuclear weapons and thus is regarded by many historians as the foundation on which SAC was built. In April 1946 many of the group's aircraft deployed to Kwajalein as part of Operation Crossroads, a series of atomic bomb tests. The remainder became the core of two new squadrons activated as part of the group, the 715th Bomb Squadron and the 830th Bomb Squadron.
On 10 July 1946, the group was renamed the 509th Bombardment Group (Very Heavy) and the 320th TCS was disbanded. With the creation of the United States Air Force as a separate service, the group became the combat component of the 509th Bomb Wing on 17 November 1947, although it was not operational until 14 September 1948, when Col. John D. Ryan was named commander. As a result of postwar reductions only the 509th was equipped for the delivery of atomic bombs.
The group was redesignated as a medium bomb group in 1948 as part of the Strategic Air Command, and acquired an aerial refueling mission with the assignment of KB-29s. Its 27 operational Silverplate B-29s (the 309th had ultimately received 53 of the 65 produced) were transferred in 1949 to the 97th Bomb Wing at Biggs Air Force Base, El Paso, Texas, when the group converted to B-50D Superfortresses. The B-50D was the last derivative of the B-29 family and designed specifically for the atomic bombing mission. It was one of the last piston-engined bombers built, having a top speed just short of 400 mph (644 km/h), faster than many World War II-era propeller-powered fighters still in service at the time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/509th_Operations_Group
http://www.cybermodeler.com/aircraft/b-29/509cg.shtml


Actually 25 years later Glenn Dennis isn't "peddling" his story and this "take" on events hinges on dozens of other witnesses getting together and making sure that their separate memories closely match. Again another interesting "conspiracy theory". Should any wish to check further, the latest about the late Glenn Dennis;


"But new interviews and information show that the undertaker's amazing story may well have basis in fact. And a fresh look may have uncovered the possible identity of the "missing nurse" at the Roswell base who decades ago revealed to Glenn the alien reality of the crash."
http://naturalplane.blogspot.com/201...ndertaker.html
__________________
Whiskey for my men, and beer for my horses.
TANSTAAFL = There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch
Bock's First Law of History: The Past shapes the Present, which forms the Future. *
Reply With Quote
  #52  
Old 14 Feb 12, 22:36
OpanaPointer's Avatar
OpanaPointer OpanaPointer is offline
General of the Forums
United_States
ACG 5 Year Service Ribbon 
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: St. Louis
Posts: 11,682
OpanaPointer gives and gets respect [800] OpanaPointer gives and gets respect [800]
OpanaPointer gives and gets respect [800] OpanaPointer gives and gets respect [800] OpanaPointer gives and gets respect [800]
Okay, Mr. Brock. Whatever you like. Say "hi" to the folks at ATS for me.
Reply With Quote
  #53  
Old 14 Feb 12, 23:35
G David Bock's Avatar
G David Bock G David Bock is offline
General of the Forums
United_States
ACG Ten Year Service Award ACG 5 Year Service Ribbon Best Pin-Up Of World War II Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role Aircraft C 
Tournament 1 of the ACG 2017-2018 
 
Real Name: G David Bock
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Bellingham, Washington
Posts: 15,443
G David Bock has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] G David Bock has set a fine example for others to follow [1000]
G David Bock has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] G David Bock has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] G David Bock has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] G David Bock has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] G David Bock has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] G David Bock has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] G David Bock has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] G David Bock has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] G David Bock has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] G David Bock has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] G David Bock has set a fine example for others to follow [1000]
Quote:
Originally Posted by OpanaPointer View Post
Okay, Mr. Brock. Whatever you like. Say "hi" to the folks at ATS for me.
You can drop the "r", it's Bock (as in "Bock's Car"), not Brock.

Give your past stance on this subject, I'll assume you don't mean this;
ATS- Advanced Technology Services http://www.advancedtech.com/
nor this;
Association of Theological Schools http://www.ats.edu/Pages/default.aspx
or this;
American Traffic Solutions http://www.atsol.com/about-us.html
but most likely this;
Above Top Secret http://www.abovetopsecret.com/

Cute!

There is some grain scattered about the chafe there.
__________________
Whiskey for my men, and beer for my horses.
TANSTAAFL = There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch
Bock's First Law of History: The Past shapes the Present, which forms the Future. *
Reply With Quote
  #54  
Old 27 Feb 12, 04:13
jacabba's Avatar
jacabba jacabba is offline
Private
United_States
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: fairfax
Posts: 5
jacabba is a balanced individual [0]
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrhankisthrone View Post
Maybe they floated the story to test how the following would respond: 1) US military news, 2) US civilian news, 3) local law enforcement, 4) allied intelligence, and 5) enemy intelligence. Things to evaluate would be 1) alertness to the story, 2) speed of dissemination, 3) evaluation of credibility, and 4) follow-up.

It could be good preparation for many of the scientific stories bound to originate from the military that are less fantastic but for which containment of information would be more important.

I think the same thing
Reply With Quote
  #55  
Old 27 Feb 12, 07:52
OpanaPointer's Avatar
OpanaPointer OpanaPointer is offline
General of the Forums
United_States
ACG 5 Year Service Ribbon 
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: St. Louis
Posts: 11,682
OpanaPointer gives and gets respect [800] OpanaPointer gives and gets respect [800]
OpanaPointer gives and gets respect [800] OpanaPointer gives and gets respect [800] OpanaPointer gives and gets respect [800]
It was a balloon downed by a recent storm. Mac Brazell's description in the original story doesn't support any other supposition.
Reply With Quote
  #56  
Old 27 Feb 12, 14:09
Mountain Man's Avatar
Mountain Man Mountain Man is offline
General of the Forums
United_States
ACG Ten Year Service Award ACG 5 Year Service Ribbon Greatest Spy Movies Campaign Best Pin-Up Of World War II 
Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign Most Significant/Influential Fighter Campaign Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role Aircraft C Tournament 1 and preceding Mini-Polls 
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Colorado Rocky Mts, USA
Posts: 69,382
Mountain Man has disabled reputation
Unfortunately, the cover story issued by the Air Force was so full of holes that it's sheer ineptness should be a concern to intelligent Americans even today.
__________________
Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?
Reply With Quote
  #57  
Old 27 Feb 12, 16:42
OpanaPointer's Avatar
OpanaPointer OpanaPointer is offline
General of the Forums
United_States
ACG 5 Year Service Ribbon 
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: St. Louis
Posts: 11,682
OpanaPointer gives and gets respect [800] OpanaPointer gives and gets respect [800]
OpanaPointer gives and gets respect [800] OpanaPointer gives and gets respect [800] OpanaPointer gives and gets respect [800]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mountain Man View Post
Unfortunately, the cover story issued by the Air Force was so full of holes that it's sheer ineptness should be a concern to intelligent Americans even today.
What holes, please?
Reply With Quote
  #58  
Old 07 Mar 12, 02:49
G David Bock's Avatar
G David Bock G David Bock is offline
General of the Forums
United_States
ACG Ten Year Service Award ACG 5 Year Service Ribbon Best Pin-Up Of World War II Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role Aircraft C 
Tournament 1 of the ACG 2017-2018 
 
Real Name: G David Bock
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Bellingham, Washington
Posts: 15,443
G David Bock has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] G David Bock has set a fine example for others to follow [1000]
G David Bock has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] G David Bock has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] G David Bock has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] G David Bock has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] G David Bock has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] G David Bock has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] G David Bock has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] G David Bock has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] G David Bock has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] G David Bock has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] G David Bock has set a fine example for others to follow [1000]
Just off hand, it started with "weather balloons", assuming the Intel officer at our only Nuc Bomber base couldn't know that, or was willing to forfeit his career to go along with some "test deception scheme"; followed a few decades later with "it was the 'Secret' Mogul Program~ weather balloons with some extra gear attached; followed a few years later with some lame "crash test dummies" program that actually occurred in the early 1950s! Just off the top of my head without rummaging thru archives and old books on the matter.

Then there's the factor of Brazel spending a few days on base in custody, er 'accomodation', of Military Police, after he complained the 'the air force needs to clean up the mess on his property' to local sheriff; and when next seen in public he's changed his story and driving a new pick-up truck.

But the oft overlooked part is that his 8 year-old son and his seven year-old friend were along that day(of discovery) and their effects of the episode and impact upon their lives can be gauged here;
http://www.theufochronicles.com/2012...o-roswell.html

Just for a start of sorts ....
__________________
Whiskey for my men, and beer for my horses.
TANSTAAFL = There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch
Bock's First Law of History: The Past shapes the Present, which forms the Future. *
Reply With Quote
  #59  
Old 07 Mar 12, 10:02
OpanaPointer's Avatar
OpanaPointer OpanaPointer is offline
General of the Forums
United_States
ACG 5 Year Service Ribbon 
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: St. Louis
Posts: 11,682
OpanaPointer gives and gets respect [800] OpanaPointer gives and gets respect [800]
OpanaPointer gives and gets respect [800] OpanaPointer gives and gets respect [800] OpanaPointer gives and gets respect [800]
Quote:
Originally Posted by G David Bock View Post
Just off hand, it started with "weather balloons", assuming the Intel officer at our only Nuc Bomber base couldn't know that, or was willing to forfeit his career to go along with some "test deception scheme"; followed a few decades later with "it was the 'Secret' Mogul Program~ weather balloons with some extra gear attached; followed a few years later with some lame "crash test dummies" program that actually occurred in the early 1950s! Just off the top of my head without rummaging thru archives and old books on the matter.
Take the original story, not the one inflated by the passage of time and the countless UFO stories that contributed to the later versions. The original was a weather balloon. Everything later was TV, movies and pulp magazines.
Quote:
Then there's the factor of Brazel spending a few days on base in custody, er 'accomodation', of Military Police, after he complained the 'the air force needs to clean up the mess on his property' to local sheriff; and when next seen in public he's changed his story and driving a new pick-up truck.
Didn't happen.
Quote:
But the oft overlooked part is that his 8 year-old son and his seven year-old friend were along that day(of discovery) and their effects of the episode and impact upon their lives can be gauged here;
http://www.theufochronicles.com/2012...o-roswell.html

Just for a start of sorts ....
You'll notice the lack of actual eyewitnesses there.
Reply With Quote
  #60  
Old 19 Mar 12, 05:58
Rob Connolly's Avatar
Rob Connolly Rob Connolly is offline
Gunnery Sergeant
UK
 
Real Name: Rob Connolly
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Oldham
Posts: 185
Rob Connolly is on the path to success [1-99] Rob Connolly is on the path to success [1-99] Rob Connolly is on the path to success [1-99] Rob Connolly is on the path to success [1-99]
The Roswell UFO Industry began IIRC in 1981, when Charles Berlitz found his Bermuda Triangle schtick wasn't pulling in enough $$$, so he confabulated the UFO crash.

I read the beginning of Corso's book. He boldly states that the war in North Africa ended in 1942, which might come as a surprise for those who found themselves in Tunis in May 1943. I will also guarantee that for every example of technology he claimed to have invented/brainstormed/helped along, there will be a patent trail, research literature and journal publications that prove he had nothing to do with it.

Also IIRC, his ghost writer made all the money from the book and Corso saw very little of it, which irked him. As for Randle and Schmidt, one of them turned out to be a complete fraud; his partner promptly disowned him and then claimed to have done all the work himself.

The study of UFO studiers is, I find, far more interesting and amusing than UFOs themselves ...
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links

Reply

Please bookmark this thread if you enjoyed it!


Thread Tools
Display Modes



Forum Jump

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:48.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.