HistoryNet.com RSS
ArmchairGeneral.com RSS

HistoryNet.com Articles
America's Civil War
American History
Aviation History
Civil War Times
MHQ
Military History
Vietnam
Wild West
World War II

ACG Online
ACG Magazine
Stuff We Like
War College
History News
Tactics 101
Carlo D'Este
Books

ACG Gaming
Boardgames
PC Game Reviews

ACG Network
Contact Us
Our Newsletter
Meet Our Staff
Advertise With Us

Sites We Support
HistoryNet.com
StreamHistory.com
Once A Marine
The Art of Battle
Game Squad
Mil. History Podcast
Russian Army - WW2
Achtung Panzer!
Mil History Online

Go Back   Armchair General and HistoryNet >> The Best Forums in History > Historical Events & Eras > Warfare by Other Means > Spy Wars

Notices and Announcements

Spy Wars Reconnaissance, deception and intelligence are all vital aspects of warfare, ancient and modern - discuss these aspects here!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #16  
Old 26 Aug 11, 07:43
Roadkiller's Avatar
Roadkiller Roadkiller is offline
Major General
Canada
ACG Ten Year Service Award 5 Year Service Ribbon Best Pin-Up Of World War II 
 
Real Name: Art
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: HQ
Posts: 2,862
Roadkiller is simply cracking [600]
Roadkiller is simply cracking [600] Roadkiller is simply cracking [600] Roadkiller is simply cracking [600] Roadkiller is simply cracking [600] Roadkiller is simply cracking [600] Roadkiller is simply cracking [600] Roadkiller is simply cracking [600] Roadkiller is simply cracking [600] Roadkiller is simply cracking [600] Roadkiller is simply cracking [600] Roadkiller is simply cracking [600] Roadkiller is simply cracking [600]
There is a documentary (not a "hard" source I know) out about Area 51 in the 50's. They interviewed a high ranking officer and a test pilot who worked at the facility at that time. Apparently the National Defence Act (or the US equivalent) is running out on some of the things they did/saw and they are allowed to talk.

Their most interesting stories concerned the forerunner to the SR71 Blackbird. This aircraft sort of bridged the capability between the U2 and the SR71. It was only known by the code name of the project which escapes me at the moment. None the less, interesting and little known stories.

They did make it plain there are some things they still can't talk about
__________________
Amateurs study tactics, Professionals study logistics.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 26 Aug 11, 07:43
OpanaPointer's Avatar
OpanaPointer OpanaPointer is offline
General of the Forums
United_States
5 Year Service Ribbon 
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: St. Louis
Posts: 11,682
OpanaPointer gives and gets respect [800] OpanaPointer gives and gets respect [800]
OpanaPointer gives and gets respect [800] OpanaPointer gives and gets respect [800] OpanaPointer gives and gets respect [800]
Mac Brazel's report of the debris is perfectly consistent with a balloon train from Project Mogul. The story died the death it deserved. Only the wishful thinking of a UFO author teamed up with the tall tales of a non-witness brought it back to life decades later.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 26 Aug 11, 07:44
OpanaPointer's Avatar
OpanaPointer OpanaPointer is offline
General of the Forums
United_States
5 Year Service Ribbon 
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: St. Louis
Posts: 11,682
OpanaPointer gives and gets respect [800] OpanaPointer gives and gets respect [800]
OpanaPointer gives and gets respect [800] OpanaPointer gives and gets respect [800] OpanaPointer gives and gets respect [800]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Centurion40 View Post
That very thought occurred to me as I read Col. Corso's (retired US Army Intel) book on Roswell. He said it really happened. Could his story be smokescreen?
Corso's story is silly. The history of the technology he claims was retrofitted is well known and there are no "miracles" to be found there.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 26 Aug 11, 08:21
Centurion40's Avatar
Centurion40 Centurion40 is offline
Brigadier General
Canada
Best Pin-Up Of World War II 
 
Real Name: Rob
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Halifax
Posts: 2,056
Centurion40 has demonstrated strength of character [100] Centurion40 has demonstrated strength of character [100] Centurion40 has demonstrated strength of character [100] Centurion40 has demonstrated strength of character [100] Centurion40 has demonstrated strength of character [100] Centurion40 has demonstrated strength of character [100] Centurion40 has demonstrated strength of character [100] Centurion40 has demonstrated strength of character [100] Centurion40 has demonstrated strength of character [100] Centurion40 has demonstrated strength of character [100]
Silly as Corso's book may be (and based on the premise of space aliens and their tech, the story isn't exactly built on solid ground), he didn't claim any "miracles", but rather "nudges" advancing projects already in development.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 26 Aug 11, 08:39
OpanaPointer's Avatar
OpanaPointer OpanaPointer is offline
General of the Forums
United_States
5 Year Service Ribbon 
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: St. Louis
Posts: 11,682
OpanaPointer gives and gets respect [800] OpanaPointer gives and gets respect [800]
OpanaPointer gives and gets respect [800] OpanaPointer gives and gets respect [800] OpanaPointer gives and gets respect [800]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Centurion40 View Post
Silly as Corso's book may be (and based on the premise of space aliens and their tech, the story isn't exactly built on solid ground), he didn't claim any "miracles", but rather "nudges" advancing projects already in development.
He claimed the hard work done by the scientists who actually did the work as his own. Dishonest and disreputable.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links

  #21  
Old 26 Aug 11, 09:05
Centurion40's Avatar
Centurion40 Centurion40 is offline
Brigadier General
Canada
Best Pin-Up Of World War II 
 
Real Name: Rob
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Halifax
Posts: 2,056
Centurion40 has demonstrated strength of character [100] Centurion40 has demonstrated strength of character [100] Centurion40 has demonstrated strength of character [100] Centurion40 has demonstrated strength of character [100] Centurion40 has demonstrated strength of character [100] Centurion40 has demonstrated strength of character [100] Centurion40 has demonstrated strength of character [100] Centurion40 has demonstrated strength of character [100] Centurion40 has demonstrated strength of character [100] Centurion40 has demonstrated strength of character [100]
No he didn't. He claimed that he provided pieces/photos of alien tech (that was stored in a filing cabinet) at US Army R&D to scientists/defence contractors.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 26 Aug 11, 09:10
OpanaPointer's Avatar
OpanaPointer OpanaPointer is offline
General of the Forums
United_States
5 Year Service Ribbon 
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: St. Louis
Posts: 11,682
OpanaPointer gives and gets respect [800] OpanaPointer gives and gets respect [800]
OpanaPointer gives and gets respect [800] OpanaPointer gives and gets respect [800] OpanaPointer gives and gets respect [800]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Centurion40 View Post
No he didn't. He claimed that he provided pieces/photos of alien tech (that was stored in a filing cabinet) at US Army R&D to scientists/defence contractors.
He stole their work to sell his bogus book. If that isn't a crime it should be.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 26 Aug 11, 09:40
lakechampainer's Avatar
lakechampainer lakechampainer is offline
General of the Forums
United_States
5 Year Service Ribbon Greatest Blunders Campaign Best Pin-Up Of World War II Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign 
Most Significant/Influential Fighter Campaign Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role Aircraft C 
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Oceania
Posts: 10,057
lakechampainer is simply cracking [600]
lakechampainer is simply cracking [600] lakechampainer is simply cracking [600] lakechampainer is simply cracking [600] lakechampainer is simply cracking [600] lakechampainer is simply cracking [600] lakechampainer is simply cracking [600] lakechampainer is simply cracking [600] lakechampainer is simply cracking [600] lakechampainer is simply cracking [600] lakechampainer is simply cracking [600] lakechampainer is simply cracking [600] lakechampainer is simply cracking [600]
I guess I come back to where I started - Roswell was probably the base of most interest to a foreign power (read USSR) at this time as it was the only base with nuclear capable B-29s (the fact the weapon components were stored elsewhere in NM with the AEC may or may not have been known by Soviet intelligence). The Air Force/ US as a whole would have had its best people there. They would not have intelligence officers go crazy or "off the reservation."

The Intelligence community would know that the USSR and any of its agents or friends would have a great interest in such a story - again, they may or may not have believed it - but I'm pretty sure one they would have felt compelled to investigate it/report it.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 26 Aug 11, 09:45
OpanaPointer's Avatar
OpanaPointer OpanaPointer is offline
General of the Forums
United_States
5 Year Service Ribbon 
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: St. Louis
Posts: 11,682
OpanaPointer gives and gets respect [800] OpanaPointer gives and gets respect [800]
OpanaPointer gives and gets respect [800] OpanaPointer gives and gets respect [800] OpanaPointer gives and gets respect [800]
The initial press release was ill-considered and premature. A prime case of buck fever considering the first reports of "flying saucers" had come about ten days earlier.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 26 Aug 11, 09:45
lakechampainer's Avatar
lakechampainer lakechampainer is offline
General of the Forums
United_States
5 Year Service Ribbon Greatest Blunders Campaign Best Pin-Up Of World War II Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign 
Most Significant/Influential Fighter Campaign Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role Aircraft C 
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Oceania
Posts: 10,057
lakechampainer is simply cracking [600]
lakechampainer is simply cracking [600] lakechampainer is simply cracking [600] lakechampainer is simply cracking [600] lakechampainer is simply cracking [600] lakechampainer is simply cracking [600] lakechampainer is simply cracking [600] lakechampainer is simply cracking [600] lakechampainer is simply cracking [600] lakechampainer is simply cracking [600] lakechampainer is simply cracking [600] lakechampainer is simply cracking [600] lakechampainer is simply cracking [600]
Recent posters may want to see the thread below started by philiplaos. My post #6 gives details about the US force structure.

http://www.armchairgeneral.com/forum...rgy+commission
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 26 Aug 11, 10:29
Centurion40's Avatar
Centurion40 Centurion40 is offline
Brigadier General
Canada
Best Pin-Up Of World War II 
 
Real Name: Rob
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Halifax
Posts: 2,056
Centurion40 has demonstrated strength of character [100] Centurion40 has demonstrated strength of character [100] Centurion40 has demonstrated strength of character [100] Centurion40 has demonstrated strength of character [100] Centurion40 has demonstrated strength of character [100] Centurion40 has demonstrated strength of character [100] Centurion40 has demonstrated strength of character [100] Centurion40 has demonstrated strength of character [100] Centurion40 has demonstrated strength of character [100] Centurion40 has demonstrated strength of character [100]
Quote:
Originally Posted by lakechampainer View Post
I guess I come back to where I started - Roswell was probably the base of most interest to a foreign power (read USSR) at this time as it was the only base with nuclear capable B-29s (the fact the weapon components were stored elsewhere in NM with the AEC may or may not have been known by Soviet intelligence). The Air Force/ US as a whole would have had its best people there. They would not have intelligence officers go crazy or "off the reservation."

The Intelligence community would know that the USSR and any of its agents or friends would have a great interest in such a story - again, they may or may not have believed it - but I'm pretty sure one they would have felt compelled to investigate it/report it.
It would not surprise me if, in our old age, it comes out that the Roswell incident (along with other supposed crashes of alien spaceships, such as the Shag Harbour incident) turns out to be Soviet vehicles attempting to collect intelligence.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 26 Aug 11, 10:39
OpanaPointer's Avatar
OpanaPointer OpanaPointer is offline
General of the Forums
United_States
5 Year Service Ribbon 
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: St. Louis
Posts: 11,682
OpanaPointer gives and gets respect [800] OpanaPointer gives and gets respect [800]
OpanaPointer gives and gets respect [800] OpanaPointer gives and gets respect [800] OpanaPointer gives and gets respect [800]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Centurion40 View Post
It would not surprise me if, in our old age, it comes out that the Roswell incident (along with other supposed crashes of alien spaceships, such as the Shag Harbour incident) turns out to be Soviet vehicles attempting to collect intelligence.
Why would it not surprise you? They didn't build their ships out of tinfoil, scotch tape, rubber balloons and balsa wood.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 26 Aug 11, 10:46
Centurion40's Avatar
Centurion40 Centurion40 is offline
Brigadier General
Canada
Best Pin-Up Of World War II 
 
Real Name: Rob
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Halifax
Posts: 2,056
Centurion40 has demonstrated strength of character [100] Centurion40 has demonstrated strength of character [100] Centurion40 has demonstrated strength of character [100] Centurion40 has demonstrated strength of character [100] Centurion40 has demonstrated strength of character [100] Centurion40 has demonstrated strength of character [100] Centurion40 has demonstrated strength of character [100] Centurion40 has demonstrated strength of character [100] Centurion40 has demonstrated strength of character [100] Centurion40 has demonstrated strength of character [100]
It would not surprise me because I do not under estimate human ingenuity.
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 26 Aug 11, 11:03
OpanaPointer's Avatar
OpanaPointer OpanaPointer is offline
General of the Forums
United_States
5 Year Service Ribbon 
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: St. Louis
Posts: 11,682
OpanaPointer gives and gets respect [800] OpanaPointer gives and gets respect [800]
OpanaPointer gives and gets respect [800] OpanaPointer gives and gets respect [800] OpanaPointer gives and gets respect [800]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Centurion40 View Post
It would not surprise me because I do not under estimate human ingenuity.
And your response to the points I made, please?
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 26 Aug 11, 11:21
Centurion40's Avatar
Centurion40 Centurion40 is offline
Brigadier General
Canada
Best Pin-Up Of World War II 
 
Real Name: Rob
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Halifax
Posts: 2,056
Centurion40 has demonstrated strength of character [100] Centurion40 has demonstrated strength of character [100] Centurion40 has demonstrated strength of character [100] Centurion40 has demonstrated strength of character [100] Centurion40 has demonstrated strength of character [100] Centurion40 has demonstrated strength of character [100] Centurion40 has demonstrated strength of character [100] Centurion40 has demonstrated strength of character [100] Centurion40 has demonstrated strength of character [100] Centurion40 has demonstrated strength of character [100]
What? That Corso is a thief? He told a tale that is either truth or fiction. Hardly a theft. It would be theft if he stole a patent, or made an integrated curcuit based on someone else's design and claimed it was his own work. But he did none of those things. He told a story, claimed it as the truth and sold some books based on his tale. Now he is dead. If someone is offended by his story and wants to sue his estate for libel, they are perfectly within their rights to do so.

Related to post-Roswell reports and investigations... I have to be honest with you and admit that I haven't read every single claim or report surrounding that event. However, it is far more likely that whatever did or did not happen there, happened as a result of human enterprise... weather balloon, glider, whatever. The possibility that something crashed from another planet/dimension/time is much, much less likely.

Having said all of that, I do not implicitly believe every government report or news story that I see.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links

Reply

Please bookmark this thread if you enjoyed it!


Thread Tools
Display Modes



Forum Jump

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:31.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.