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Go Back   Armchair General and HistoryNet >> The Best Forums in History > Historical Events & Eras > Warfare by Other Means > Spy Wars

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Spy Wars Reconnaissance, deception and intelligence are all vital aspects of warfare, ancient and modern - discuss these aspects here!

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  #1  
Old 12 Aug 09, 12:27
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Roswell - Offensive Counterintelligence?

Do you think the "Roswell Incident" was an example of offensive counterintelligence? Do you think the US spread disinformation on a fantastic sounding story, so that Soviet agents in the country would feel compelled to look into this, even if they would have severe doubts about its truth?


I think this was probably what happened. I've never believed that an intelligence officer at the base with the B-29's (or any Air Force officer) would issue a press release about "crashed flying saucer" like this without authorization.
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  #2  
Old 12 Aug 09, 12:33
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Maybe they floated the story to test how the following would respond: 1) US military news, 2) US civilian news, 3) local law enforcement, 4) allied intelligence, and 5) enemy intelligence. Things to evaluate would be 1) alertness to the story, 2) speed of dissemination, 3) evaluation of credibility, and 4) follow-up.

It could be good preparation for many of the scientific stories bound to originate from the military that are less fantastic but for which containment of information would be more important.
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  #3  
Old 12 Aug 09, 12:44
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Thanks mrhankisthrone - I never thought about this being to check on/evaluate your own people.
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  #4  
Old 20 Aug 09, 12:59
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I think the whole thing was a SNAFU! I think the "weather baloon" most likely served more of an intelligence gathering role of some kind. When it came down where civilians could find it I expect there was mass confusion among the CYA crowd and the UFO story was a very bad impromptu explanation to try to divert attention from the real purpose of the device. By the time someone with better sense suggested the weather baloon idea it was too late.

Of course, I am a doubter. "Ain't no such thing as little green men in flying saucers!"
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  #5  
Old 20 Aug 09, 13:04
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No. Given the lousy cover-up job with a million holes in it, I think they tried frantically to cover up a real incident of some sort.

One look at the Roswell "explanation", a few minutes on the internet, and the whole Air Farce story falls apart.
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  #6  
Old 20 Aug 09, 15:50
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cover fer Mogul? ya maybe....but the Trapper's still got the scent of this he coon.....and the gawdamn govt still ain't talking.

And remember what UFO is defined as...

saw one meself out near San Angelo back in 92.....turned out to be something we knew exsisted but had never seen.

Kinda liked having em there tho cuz we were on a simulated SAR of a downed Apache and they were watching to see that all was well for us.

iow. it's unidentified until idenitified....if ever.

in then end what remains interesting is this and i quote...........

A UFO crashed northwest of Roswell, New Mexico, in the summer of 1947. The military acted quickly and efficiently to recover the debris after its existence was reported by a ranch hand. The debris, unlike anything these highly trained men had ever seen, was flown without delay to at least three government installations. A cover story was concocted to explain away the debris and the flurry of activity. It was explained that a weather balloon, one with a new radiosonde target device, had been found and temporarily confused the personnel of the 509th Bomb Group. Government officials took reporters' notes from their desks and warned a radio reporter not to play a recorded interview with the ranch hand. The men who took part in the recovery were told never to talk about the incident. And with a whimper, not a bang, the Roswell event faded quickly from public view and press scrutiny...........

UFO Crash at Roswell (1991) by Kevin D. Randle and Donald R. Schmitt



now for any who have worked for the fed will tell ya....you aint got a need to know till we tell you.

so...covert or other that's the way it is.
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  #7  
Old 20 Aug 09, 16:09
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The Air Force concocted a story designed to fool ignorant civilians, and it probably was sufficient in the 40's, but the elements of the Air Force cover up don't match what was needed, and actually contradict each other. All you have to do is take a few minutes to look at what was really taking place.

It's amazing to me that anyone is left who believes the "official" Roswell story put out by the government.
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Old 20 Aug 09, 21:44
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Well..

Having lived in NM for the better part of the last 20yrs, and being married to a native; well no doubt there's a lot of weird things out in those deserts.

And no matter the reality of the incident; we're sure glad it spawned the UFO Museum in Roswell. That place is a hoot. That museum along with the National Atomic Museum (we love our nukes!) makes for an interesting tourist experience. You won't be finding comparable things in more famous locations.
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  #9  
Old 21 Aug 09, 13:18
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Should move it to Washington, D.C., place it next to the Smithsonian and re-name it the Museum to Government Cover-up.
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  #10  
Old 13 Sep 10, 22:24
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Million Fax on Washington

I was looking for any more recent information on Roswell, in terms of potential offensive counter-intelligence. I didn't find any, but I did find a Wikipedia article called "Million Fax on Washington", the link to which is below. This was an organized effort to try to get the incoming Obama Administration to release information on Roswell and similar topics.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Million_Fax_on_Washington

Bill Richardson, New Mexico Governor and former US Secretary of Energy, is mentioned prominently in the article.

From within the article:
he organizers of the campaign expressed optimism that then President-elect Barack Obama would be sympathetic to their cause because key members of his administration have previously involved themselves in the UFO disclosure issue.[3] John Podesta, co-chairman of the Obama-Biden Transition Project, has advocated government disclosure on the UFO issue on several occasions[5] and has actively supported the Coalition for Freedom of Information, a pressure group which seeks the truth behind UFOs by gaining access to secret government records about UFOs.[4][2][6] Also Bill Richardson who has been appointed Secretary of Commerce in the forthcoming Obama administration has given mainstream credence to the UFO issue by writing a foreword in a book on the Roswell incident[6] and UFO sightings within New Mexico where he is currently serving as governor. He has also voiced the opinion that there has been a cover-up on the issue of government files related to the UFO issue.[4][6]

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Old 14 Sep 10, 13:08
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Below is a link is a to the Wikipedia article on counter-intelligence.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counter...erintelligence

Anyone interested in the topic might want to look at mrhankisthrone's post -#2 - although very brief, it may be the post I learned the most from on Armchair General. If you're still out there somewhere, mrhankisthrone, I'd certainly like to get your take on the issues of the day and of the past.


Below is the brief "Offensive Counterintelligence" section from the above article

Offensive counterintelligence operations

Wisner emphasized his own, and Dulles', views that the best defense against foreign attacks on, or infiltration of, intelligence services is active measures against those hostile services.[5] This is often called counterespionage: measures taken to detect enemy espionage or physical attacks against friendly intelligence services, prevent damage and information loss, and, where possible, to turn the attempt back against its originator. Counterespionage goes beyond being reactive, and actively tries to subvert hostile intelligence services, by recruiting agents in the foreign service, by discrediting personnel actually loyal to their own service, and taking away resources that would be useful to the hostile service. All of these actions apply to non-national threats as well as to national organizations.

If the hostile action is in one's own country, or in a friendly one with cooperating police, the hostile agents may be arrested, or, if diplomats, declared persona non grata. From the perspective of one's own intelligence service, exploiting the situation to the advantage of one's side is usually preferable to arrest or actions that might result in the death of the threat. The intelligence priority sometimes comes into conflict with the instincts of one's own law enforcement organizations, especially when the foreign threat combines foreign personnel with citizens of one's country.

In some circumstances, arrest may be a first step, in which the prisoner is given the choice of cooperating, or facing severe consequence up to and including a death sentence for espionage. Cooperation may consist of telling all one knows about the other service, but, preferably, actively assisting in deceptive actions against the hostile service.

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  #12  
Old 14 Sep 10, 14:27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lakechampainer View Post
Do you think the "Roswell Incident" was an example of offensive counterintelligence? Do you think the US spread disinformation on a fantastic sounding story, so that Soviet agents in the country would feel compelled to look into this, even if they would have severe doubts about its truth?


I think this was probably what happened. I've never believed that an intelligence officer at the base with the B-29's (or any Air Force officer) would issue a press release about "crashed flying saucer" like this without authorization.
It's not a bad theory really. The CIA (or was it OSS then?) certainly came up with some wacky plans over the years and and if spreading the idea that the USA had access to that sort of technology might have helped give the USSR a good dose of paranoia and made them think twice about picking a fight.

The problem was that all of that fell apart with the Sputnik.

All that said I think it was just people getting carried away.
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Old 14 Sep 10, 14:32
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Interestingly my sister's father in law was based there at the time. Apparently nothing strange happened. Or at least that is what he was told to say....
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Old 12 Dec 10, 17:32
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As long as folks keep thinking about UFOs & alien air crew crashing at Roswell the real cover up remains intact
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Old 26 Aug 11, 07:25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lakechampainer View Post
Do you think the "Roswell Incident" was an example of offensive counterintelligence? Do you think the US spread disinformation on a fantastic sounding story, so that Soviet agents in the country would feel compelled to look into this, even if they would have severe doubts about its truth?


I think this was probably what happened. I've never believed that an intelligence officer at the base with the B-29's (or any Air Force officer) would issue a press release about "crashed flying saucer" like this without authorization.
That very thought occurred to me as I read Col. Corso's (retired US Army Intel) book on Roswell. He said it really happened. Could his story be smokescreen?
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