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Go Back   Armchair General and HistoryNet >> The Best Forums in History > Current Events > Russia, Central Asia, and The Caucasus > South Ossetian Conflict

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South Ossetian Conflict Discuss the conflict between Georgia and Russia over South Ossetia.

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  #31  
Old 05 Aug 09, 16:00
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Originally Posted by pp(est) View Post
I don't think this bit is very convincing considering how the Georgians were expulsed from the area.
Well let’s see. The western Wikipedia (very dubious though) shows that according to 1989 census there were 28.700 (29%) Georgians and 65.200 (66.2%) Ossetians.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pp(est) View Post
After all, there are nearly as many Ossetians living peacefully elsewhere in Georgia than there is living in SO.
Again your beloved wiki will contradict you: by 2002 there were about 0.9% Ossetians in Georgia which makes about 39000. Taking into account the rate of decrease of the Ossetian population and 08.08.08 it would be safe to assume now there would be no more than 20 000 and as I can guess they are mostly half-blooded. Far from being convincing either.
Let us take the chronology of events. In 1989 Georgia de-facto secedes from the SU. One of the implied terms of the secession was arrangement of referenda in all the autonomies of the Georgian Soviet Socialist Republic. Isn’t that a democratic move? The Supreme Council of Abkhazian autonomy adopted a declaration of independence (1990) while the Council of People’s candidates of South Ossetia decided to promote the status of autonomous region to that of an autonomous republic. The Supreme Council of the Georgian ASSR dismissed the decision as anti-constitutional and whereupon Tskhinalli was besieged. If you have at least a cursory insight in the history of the region you know what happened next. Esp. about the Georgian civil war between Shevornadze and Gamsahurdia 1991-1994. If you are not too biased you would also know that it was Shevornadze “sly fox” who agreed to the Russian military presence in Georgia in order to destroy his opponent Gamsahurdia what he successfully achieved and then addressed to the Abkhazian knot.
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Originally Posted by pp(est) View Post
The whole incident is a showcase what a little bit of effective agitation, some money and some displaced weapons can do.
Not convincing at all in view of all the details. The turmoil (to say the least) in Russia or better said what was left of the SU at that time makes the measures you speak of very far-fetched. There were a lot of shouldering conflicts all over Russia proper: all the –stan republics that demanded the same status as the former Soviet Socialist Republics (for example Tatarstan that was on the verge of making a new Chechnya). All the suggestions you venture require pre-meditated plan, set aims, a sane and organized elite, resolution and of course money (remember what oil cost at that time) what Russia or the drôle d’Etat on its territory definitely lacked.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pp(est) View Post
As to the crises in 1918-1920, that too was a conflict where Russia was an active participant and it would be rather far fetched to call Bolshevik Russian instigated and supported insurrection as fight for independence when its goal was not independence of Ossetia, but the loss of independence for Georgia (Bolshies used similar schemes also here, the latest notorious example being the government of Mr. Kuusinen).
Excuse me sir. This is the most common mistake made deliberately, I think, by the western media: Russia ≠ the SU and not Bolshevik. Can we assume that not all the interests of the bad guy (terms you seem to be more used to) ought to inevitably and necessarily contradict and exclude those of the parties involved? Can Ossetians at that time truly wish to join the country of workers and peasants. It is only 70 years later that we know the real implications of this ideology. Ossetians were all peasants and had no nobility unlike Georgia. So they could truly wish to enter the would be “paradise”.
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Originally Posted by Pavelj View Post
That's like having the fox guarding the chickens.
What’s all this irony for? This truce agreement had been very effective until the knot was further complicated by the geo-political interests of the over-seas “predators” and their military and oil lobbies vested in this puppet lunatic.
BTW to develop you metaphor these foxes (Russian peace-keepers) did not even have any heavy arms only machine guns and mortars on 08.08.08 which they used against tanks and artillery and held their ground for two days.
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  #32  
Old 05 Aug 09, 16:35
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Originally Posted by Elrat View Post
Well let’s see. The western Wikipedia (very dubious though) shows that according to 1989 census there were 28.700 (29%) Georgians and 65.200 (66.2%) Ossetians.
And where are the Georgians now?

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Originally Posted by Elrat View Post
Again your beloved wiki will contradict you: by 2002 there were about 0.9% Ossetians in Georgia which makes about 39000. Taking into account the rate of decrease of the Ossetian population and 08.08.08 it would be safe to assume now there would be no more than 20 000 and as I can guess they are mostly half-blooded.
I've not heard of any Ossetian exodus from Georgia after the Russian invasion. So if there's 40-50 000 Ossetians in SO then 25-35 000 Ossetians in Georgia qualifies as nearly as many in my book.

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Originally Posted by Elrat View Post
Let us take the chronology of events. In 1989 Georgia de-facto secedes from the SU.
What? How did that happen? In my recollection that was the year of the massacre in Tbilisi. You know the one with the entrenching tools and all.

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Originally Posted by Elrat View Post
Esp. about the Georgian civil war between Shevornadze and Gamsahurdia 1991-1994. If you are not too biased you would also know that it was Shevornadze “sly fox” who agreed to the Russian military presence in Georgia in order to destroy his opponent Gamsahurdia what he successfully achieved and then addressed to the Abkhazian knot.
At least here we get one common point of understanding Shevarnadze used the Russians while the Russians used him. This is how the so-called peacekeeper arrangement was made.

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Originally Posted by Elrat View Post
All the suggestions you venture require pre-meditated plan, set aims, a sane and organized elite, resolution and of course money (remember what oil cost at that time) what Russia or the drôle d’Etat on its territory definitely lacked.
Causing strife, destabilizing and creating enclaves do undermine the nations which had regained independence was the minimum plan. It didn't succeed in all the places it was tried, but it did succeed in some places. It understandably had to be the minimum plan because of all the troubles Russia had at the time. Divide and conquer is a simple concept and in a general turmoil everywhere and lots of ambitious people its not that difficult to sow the seeds of division.

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Originally Posted by Elrat View Post
This is the most common mistake made deliberately, I think, by the western media: Russia ≠ the SU and not Bolshevik.
Russia has assumed the role of successor state to SU, so for most practical purposes Russia = SU = Russian Empire. There are of course differences just like Napoleonic France was internally quite different from the kingdom or the later republics, but from an international law point of view and in particular from the neighbors pov its the same thing.

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Originally Posted by Elrat View Post
Can Ossetians at that time truly wish to join the country of workers and peasants. It is only 70 years later that we know the real implications of this ideology. Ossetians were all peasants and had no nobility unlike Georgia. So they could truly wish to enter the would be “paradise”.
Huh? What to do you mean what they truly wished for? The Bolsheviks weren't known for asking much about true wishes. We do know that there were tensions in the area which Bolshevik Russia utilized to create a Bolshevik insurrection. Georgia was hardly the only place this happened. There was a quite bloody civil war for instance in Finland which was similar in many respects.

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Originally Posted by Elrat View Post
...until the knot was further complicated by the geo-political interests of the over-seas “predators” and their military and oil lobbies vested in this puppet lunatic.
Funny. It would be funnier if you'd mention Soros and GWBush somewhere in there as well. Try to work that in next time.
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  #33  
Old 06 Aug 09, 10:43
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Originally Posted by pp(est) View Post
And where are the Georgians now?
Let me guess… MB in Russia replenishing GNP of the young Georgian democracy impoverished by the adventures of this paragon of western values in action?
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Originally Posted by pp(est) View Post
I've not heard of any Ossetian exodus from Georgia after the Russian invasion.
Is this supposed to be an argument? Future has a lot of interesting experiences and revelations in stock for you. The main proviso though is to discard the stereotypes the western “independent” (from truth?) media has so profusely and generously bestowed on the boni homines occidentales.
But you err here. The Georgian security services turned to Ossetians in Georgia proper beginning from 08.08.08. Almost every day 5 Ossetians are brought to trial with the same charge “Storing weapons” they have never seen. Since the Georgian law provides for the possibility to substitute imprisonment by forfeiture of all their belongings (real property etc.) they catch at this straw and leave their “Vaterland” for good.
http://war.georgia.su/genocide.htm
Quote:
Originally Posted by pp(est) View Post
What? How did that happen? In my recollection that was the year of the massacre in Tbilisi. You know the one with the entrenching tools and all.
Yes, the entrenching tools sound very frightening indeed. There is even a joke in here in Russia: a US military analyst is being asked by his young subordinate what’s the most dangerous soviet combat detachment – the answer goes: combat engineering battalion. Why? Because their soldiers are not even given fire arms only spades (shovels).
Bu seriously speaking, these were very harsh and violent measures of the Soviet Government therefore condemned by the Russian civil society. But I can’t imagine what would another government do if administrative and criminal norms are being violated by demonstrators especially if there are slogans like: “Down with autonomies!”, «Down with the soviet governance!”, “Shatter Russians!”, “Russians! Get out of Georgia!”. As a result the crowd was dispersed and 19 people save for one died from asphyxiation.
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Originally Posted by pp(est) View Post
Causing strife, destabilizing and creating enclaves do undermine the nations which had regained independence was the minimum plan.
Not a difficult thing to make especially since such enclaves have been there since God created this world and further facilitated by the nationalistic elites taken over the power. Georgia for Georgians, eh? All other nations are inferior?
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Originally Posted by pp(est) View Post
So for most practical purposes Russia = SU = Russian Empire.
Now I see your practical purposes. Like Joe Biden pursuing similar practical purposes said to the effect that Russia is a defunct has been empire not capable of moving on from despotism, intimidation, historic revisionism and empty bluster to an audience even worse than themselves. Another good friend of Russia and other Slavic peoples (who came to power in Germany in 1933) echoed: a rotten house that all you have to do is kick in the door.
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Originally Posted by pp(est) View Post
We do know that there were tensions in the area which Bolshevik Russia utilized to create a Bolshevik insurrection.
Perfect logic! So Bolsheviks did not represent any popular interests nor was there Marxist ideology progressive at that time. So the situation in Russia and elsewhere was not objective – just a Bolshevik plot and finally was it not the Soviet Government which joined South Ossetia to Georgia (instead of uniting it with their northern brothers). And tell me was it not a shrewd move giving solutions to two problems one to save Ossetian people from extermination and the other to keep integrity of Georgia. Pls. take note that all the ethnic problems we have now did not exist in the SU.
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Originally Posted by pp(est) View Post
Funny. It would be funnier if you'd mention Soros and GWBush somewhere in there as well. Try to work that in next time.
Funny indeed! Saaky wasn’t educated in the US. The US did not help Georgia to modernize its’ military nor they sent mercenaries and instructors to Georgia. Oh no, we can unequivocally assume the US did not take part building “democracy” in Georgia.
So agree with you that Georgians earned 5 billion dollars by selling oranges to Sweden of Polynesia at a great profit and bought a lot of weapons then they hired some extraterrestrial military instructors who trained their army.
Great job! Very convincing (for kids though).

http://www.spiegel.de/international/...574516,00.html

I see your general point of view. So it was not the SU behind the massacre in Tbilisi in 1989 but Russia. No matter that Shevornadze was soviet foreign minister at that time and a bit earlier a considerable part of seats in Politburo and other administrative bodies were occupied by Georgians, no matter that 90% of Russian thieves in law (God’s fathers) were Georgians, no matter that old Joe belong to the same nation, no matter that the SU was a multinational federation (you can the implications in the ethnic background of the influential persons in the government). So it was all Russia!? Then you should go as far as to admit that all criminal deeds of the SU were Russian in origin, hence all the criminal ideas in Stalin’s head and that of Beria were also Russian in origin. And we wind up by admitting that we all have two selves on is good and the other is Russian. Nice result of the western “independent” brainwashing. Ever heard of the pavlovian reflex?
So we should apologize for the flood in Texas, tsunami in the Indian Ocean etc. I am really sorry about that.
Isn’t that Russophobic? Could be attributed to the famous disciple of Nietzsche.
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  #34  
Old 06 Aug 09, 13:42
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Originally Posted by Elrat View Post
Let me guess… MB in Russia replenishing GNP of the young Georgian democracy impoverished by the adventures of this paragon of western values in action?
There are no diplomatic relations between Georgia and the RF. So you failed to guess.

Quote:
Is this supposed to be an argument? Future has a lot of interesting experiences and revelations in stock for you. The main proviso though is to discard the stereotypes the western “independent” (from truth?) media has so profusely and generously bestowed on the boni homines occidentales.
But you err here. The Georgian security services turned to Ossetians in Georgia proper beginning from 08.08.08. Almost every day 5 Ossetians are brought to trial with the same charge “Storing weapons” they have never seen. Since the Georgian law provides for the possibility to substitute imprisonment by forfeiture of all their belongings (real property etc.) they catch at this straw and leave their “Vaterland” for good.
http://war.georgia.su/genocide.htm
Yeah, Russian Mass Media, the state controlled Mass Media of the state directly involved in the conflict, are the ones to be trusted on the issue, especailly after their claims about genocide and civillian losses appeared to be exaggerated in dozens of times.
They still reject that a large amount of Ossetian civillians could be killed by Russians as the RF troops shelled, bombed Tshinvalli and other areas in the S. O. during its attempts to oust Georgians.


Quote:
Now I see your practical purposes. Like Joe Biden pursuing similar practical purposes said to the effect that Russia is a defunct has been empire not capable of moving on from despotism, intimidation, historic revisionism and empty bluster to an audience even worse than themselves.
But it is true.

Quote:
Perfect logic! So Bolsheviks did not represent any popular interests nor was there Marxist ideology progressive at that time. So the situation in Russia and elsewhere was not objective – just a Bolshevik plot and finally was it not the Soviet Government which joined South Ossetia to Georgia (instead of uniting it with their northern brothers). And tell me was it not a shrewd move giving solutions to two problems one to save Ossetian people from extermination and the other to keep integrity of Georgia. Pls. take note that all the ethnic problems we have now did not exist in the SU.
All those ethnic problems existed, aggrevated, were often created by the SU.

Quote:
Funny indeed! Saaky wasn’t educated in the US. The US did not help Georgia to modernize its’ military nor they sent mercenaries and instructors to Georgia. Oh no, we can unequivocally assume the US did not take part building “democracy” in Georgia.
Actually you repeat Russian Mass Media brainwashing. He graduated from the Kiev State University in 1992. that is he was a student mainly during Soviet period. There have not been any proof that there were American mercenaries in Georgia. Of course, we all remember the fairy tales of the Russian Mass Media about all the Georgian tank crews and many units manned by Americans, Ukrainians etc.

Quote:
So agree with you that Georgians earned 5 billion dollars by selling oranges to Sweden of Polynesia at a great profit and bought a lot of weapons then they hired some extraterrestrial military instructors who trained their army.
Great job! Very convincing (for kids though).

ha-ha, you want to apply Russian natural economic approach to Georgia. When the RF exists due to its selling oil and gas, Georgia can't exist as it does not have oil and gas.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy...orgia_(country)

Quote:
Since early 2000s visible positive developments have been observed in the economy of Georgia. In 2007 Georgia's real GDP growth rate reached 12%, making Georgia one of the fastest growing economies in Eastern Europe.[81] The World Bank dubbed Georgia "the number one economic reformer in the world" because it has in one year improved from rank 112th to 18th in terms of ease of doing business.[84] However, the country has high unemployment rate of 12.6% and has fairly low median income compared to European countries.

IMF 2007 estimates place Georgia's nominal GDP at US$10.3 billion. Georgia's economy is becoming more devoted to services (now representing 65% of GDP), moving away from agricultural sector ( 10.9%).[85]

The country has sizable hydropower resources.

The 2006 ban on imports of Georgian wine to Russia, one of Georgia's biggest trading partners, and break of financial links was described by the IMF Mission as an "external shock",[86] In addition, Russia increased the price of gas for Georgia. This was followed by the spike in the Georgian lari's rate of inflation.[citation needed] The National Bank of Georgia stated that the inflation was mainly triggered by external reasons, including Russia’s economic embargo.[87] The Georgian authorities expected that the current account deficit the embargo would cause in 2007 would be financed by "higher foreign exchange proceeds generated by the large inflow of foreign direct investment" and an increase in tourist revenues.[88] The country has also maintained a solid credit in international market securities.[89]
Map of the Baku-Supsa and BTC pipelines through the nation of Georgia.

Georgia is becoming more integrated into the global trading network: its 2006 imports and exports account for 10% and 18% of GDP respectively.[81] Georgia's main imports are natural gas, oil products, machinery and parts, and transport equipment.

Since coming to power Saakashvili administration accomplished a series of reforms aimed at impoving tax collection. Among other things a flat income tax was introduced in 2004[90] As a result budget revenues have increased fourfold and a once large budget deficit has turned into surplus.[91][92][93]

Georgia is developing into an international transport corridor through Batumi and Poti ports, an oil pipeline from Baku through Tbilisi to Ceyhan, the Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan pipeline (BTC) and a parallel gas pipeline, the South Caucasus Pipeline.

Tourism is an increasingly significant part of the Georgian economy. About a million tourists brought US$313 million to the country in 2006.[94] According to the government, there are 103 resorts in different climatic zones in Georgia. Tourist attractions include more than 2000 mineral springs, over 12,000 historical and cultural monuments, four of which are recognised as UNESCO World Heritage Sites (Bagrati Cathedral in Kutaisi and Gelati Monastery, historical monuments of Mtskheta, and Upper Svaneti).[95]




Quote:
I see your general point of view. So it was not the SU behind the massacre in Tbilisi in 1989 but Russia. No matter that Shevornadze was soviet foreign minister at that time and a bit earlier a considerable part of seats in Politburo and other administrative bodies were occupied by Georgians, no matter that 90% of Russian thieves in law (God’s fathers) were Georgians, no matter that old Joe belong to the same nation, no matter that the SU was a multinational federation (you can the implications in the ethnic background of the influential persons in the government). So it was all Russia!? Then you should go as far as to admit that all criminal deeds of the SU were Russian in origin, hence all the criminal ideas in Stalin’s head and that of Beria were also Russian in origin. And we wind up by admitting that we all have two selves on is good and the other is Russian. Nice result of the western “independent” brainwashing. Ever heard of the pavlovian reflex?
Stalin is the one of the greatest Russians for present-day Russians according to Russian opinion polls. His father was Ossetian. Russians are also the most nostalgic about the USSR. Yes, the USSR was run mainly by non-Russians but it is not a problem for Russians. I have been recently told by one Russian patriot here that Russian stands for cultural-political identity rather than ethnicity.

Last edited by Shamil; 06 Aug 09 at 13:53..
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Old 07 Aug 09, 03:33
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Originally Posted by Shamil View Post
There are no diplomatic relations between Georgia and the RF. So you failed to guess.
Then perhaps the brother Ukrainian people should arrange their moving to their feeding mother.

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Originally Posted by Shamil View Post
Yeah, Russian Mass Media, the state controlled Mass Media of the state directly involved in the conflict, are the ones to be trusted on the issue, especailly after their claims about genocide and civillian losses appeared to be exaggerated in dozens of times.
They still reject that a large amount of Ossetian civillians could be killed by Russians as the RF troops shelled, bombed Tshinvalli and other areas in the S. O. during its attempts to oust Georgians.
I like your choice of explanations of the Ossetian civilian casualties very plausible and unprejudiced indeed. Thank you it explains a lot. Especially the account of that Ossetian girl on Fox TV. Nice try! Oh those perfidious Russians!

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Originally Posted by Shamil View Post
All those ethnic problems existed, aggrevated, were often created by the SU.
You are inconsistent here. They were created by Russia.

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Originally Posted by Shamil View Post
Actually you repeat Russian Mass Media brainwashing. He graduated from the Kiev State University in 1992. that is he was a student mainly during Soviet period.
Do I? I thought everything is in the famous wiki: the scholarship of the State Dpt, Columbian University, Strasbourg etc. BTW I prefer Guardian, BBC, Independent, Al Jazeera or at least Ekho Moskvy.

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Originally Posted by Shamil View Post
There have not been any proof that there were American mercenaries in Georgia. Of course, we all remember the fairy tales of the Russian Mass Media about all the Georgian tank crews and many units manned by Americans, Ukrainians etc.
Does CIA want these proofs to be found? If they are found who is the highest authority to assess them? You? Do you have the necessary procedural and unprejudiced tooling? What do you argue with anyway? - what has always been not only admitted but declared as a policy by the US state officials. Just google: "US military aid georgia" - that won't be Russian brainwashing. Something like:
http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2008...d-us-military/
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,419682,00.html
http://www.usatoday.com/news/washing...rgia-aid_N.htm
Is that not enough?


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Originally Posted by Shamil View Post
ha-ha, you want to apply Russian natural economic approach to Georgia. When the RF exists due to its selling oil and gas, Georgia can't exist as it does not have oil and gas.
Haha! The economy is not what is written in wiki - since you attempt to back up "your" point by "your" media. Not difficult at all. But that's for the birds. Why so many Georgians (and Ukrainians) work in Russia, Turkey etc but not vice versa? Great economy can afford an enormous military build-up. Ask Georgians not wiki and they will tell you - as simple as that!

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Originally Posted by Shamil View Post
Stalin is the one of the greatest Russians for present-day Russians according to Russian opinion polls.
Georgian polls as well. There is even a monument to him in Georgia, so what. If you were investigative enough you would find that these polls mostly reflect the opinion of the older generation disappointed by the fake reformers like Yeltsin and Putin.

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Originally Posted by Shamil View Post
Russians are also the most nostalgic about the USSR. Yes, the USSR was run mainly by non-Russians but it is not a problem for Russians. I have been recently told by one Russian patriot here that Russian stands for cultural-political identity rather than ethnicity.
Nice argumentation: one Russian patriot - I am neither ethnic Russian, nor patriot.
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Old 07 Aug 09, 09:10
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I like your choice of explanations of the Ossetian civilian casualties very plausible and unprejudiced indeed. Thank you it explains a lot. Especially the account of that Ossetian girl on Fox TV. Nice try! Oh those perfidious Russians!
Yeah, Russian ascribing all the civillian Ossetian victims to the opposite side of the conflict in Ossetia is really very plausible and unprejudiced.


Quote:
Does CIA want these proofs to be found? If they are found who is the highest authority to assess them? You? Do you have the necessary procedural and unprejudiced tooling? What do you argue with anyway? - what has always been not only admitted but declared as a policy by the US state officials. Just google: "US military aid georgia" - that won't be Russian brainwashing. Something like:
http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2008...d-us-military/
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,419682,00.html
http://www.usatoday.com/news/washing...rgia-aid_N.htm
Is that not enough?

You mix military aid with the direct participation of Americans, Ukrainians etc. in the hostilities on Georgian side as the Russian Mass Media claimed but no proof has been presented.



Quote:
Haha! The economy is not what is written in wiki - since you attempt to back up "your" point by "your" media. Not difficult at all. But that's for the birds. Why so many Georgians (and Ukrainians) work in Russia, Turkey etc but not vice versa? Great economy can afford an enormous military build-up. Ask Georgians not wiki and they will tell you - as simple as that!

Georgians usually run some businesses in Russia. They can hardly be compared to the miserable workers from RF's ally central asian states whose leaders are the best Kremlin friends right now.

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Nice argumentation: one Russian patriot - I am neither ethnic Russian, nor patriot.
Just a RF's loyal Tartar?

Last edited by Shamil; 07 Aug 09 at 09:20..
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Old 07 Aug 09, 11:44
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Yeah, Russian ascribing all the civillian Ossetian victims to the opposite side of the conflict in Ossetia is really very plausible and unprejudiced.
No limits to human imagination

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Originally Posted by Shamil View Post
You mix military aid with the direct participation of Americans, Ukrainians etc. in the hostilities on Georgian side as the Russian Mass Media claimed but no proof has been presented.
I don't confuse them since the latter is internationally punishable. So I don't think it will be revealed, since the ones involved don't want it. And if the proofs are found you are the first to deny them. So let us close the point here.

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Georgians usually run some businesses in Russia. They can hardly be compared to the miserable workers from RF's ally central asian states whose leaders are the best Kremlin friends right now.
I am glad they do and hope they will.

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Originally Posted by Shamil View Post
Just a RF's loyal Tartar?
Never was and never will until the RF is a true federation and until this US stooge Putin esp. the ones behind him are in power. But there has always been a difference between democracy and outer policy. So if Russia were really democratic Saakitler and the CIA staff would have worse times.
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Old 07 Aug 09, 13:13
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pp(est) is walking in the light [200] pp(est) is walking in the light [200] pp(est) is walking in the light [200] pp(est) is walking in the light [200] pp(est) is walking in the light [200] pp(est) is walking in the light [200] pp(est) is walking in the light [200] pp(est) is walking in the light [200] pp(est) is walking in the light [200] pp(est) is walking in the light [200] pp(est) is walking in the light [200] pp(est) is walking in the light [200]
bah, I'm not interested in another looney CIA conspiracy theory. Hollywoods done it a million times. Its boring.
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  #39  
Old 07 Aug 09, 13:45
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bah, I'm not interested in another looney CIA conspiracy theory. Hollywoods done it a million times. Its boring.
You would rather be interested in a KGB or another Russian conspiracy theory? It is not so boring, huh?
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  #40  
Old 07 Aug 09, 15:15
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pp(est) is walking in the light [200] pp(est) is walking in the light [200] pp(est) is walking in the light [200] pp(est) is walking in the light [200] pp(est) is walking in the light [200] pp(est) is walking in the light [200] pp(est) is walking in the light [200] pp(est) is walking in the light [200] pp(est) is walking in the light [200] pp(est) is walking in the light [200] pp(est) is walking in the light [200] pp(est) is walking in the light [200]
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It is not so boring, huh?
Exactly, much more interesting.
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  #41  
Old 11 Aug 09, 02:40
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Russian "siloviki" happen to be strong enough as to move the Caucasian big mountain ridge southwards in order to shift Russian/Georgian border further south. They were assisted by 3 mls. of Chinese people invited under an experience exchange program.

The KGB researchers developed a new psychic weapon that affects the reason and wits of the person it is used against. They first used it against Saakashvili in spring of 2008 but then Osama bin Laden stole it and made a large-scale test of the weapon in European countries and the North American States. Only those who had had at least two double scotch or vodka had a chance to emerge unscathed.

Last edited by GCoyote; 13 Aug 09 at 16:39..
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  #42  
Old 11 Aug 09, 19:05
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joea is a pillar of the community [1100] joea is a pillar of the community [1100] joea is a pillar of the community [1100] joea is a pillar of the community [1100] joea is a pillar of the community [1100] joea is a pillar of the community [1100] joea is a pillar of the community [1100] joea is a pillar of the community [1100] joea is a pillar of the community [1100] joea is a pillar of the community [1100] joea is a pillar of the community [1100] joea is a pillar of the community [1100] joea is a pillar of the community [1100] joea is a pillar of the community [1100]
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The KGB researchers developed a new psychic weapon that affects the reason and wits of the person it is used against. They first used it against Saakashvili in spring of 2008 but then Osama bin Laden stole it and made a large-scale test of the weapon in European countries and the North American States. Only those who had had at least two double scotch or vodka had a chance to emerge unscathed.
Im saafe then.
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