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Go Back   Armchair General and HistoryNet >> The Best Forums in History > Current Events > Russia, Central Asia, and The Caucasus > South Ossetian Conflict

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South Ossetian Conflict Discuss the conflict between Georgia and Russia over South Ossetia.

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  #1  
Old 09 Jul 09, 19:55
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So apparently half of the Russian aircraft losses where self-inflicted

http://www.reuters.com/article/europ...s/idUSL8262192
Quote:
MOSCOW, July 8 (Reuters) - Russia lost six planes in its war with Georgia last August, not four as was officially announced, and at least three were downed by "friendly fire", a Russian military journal reported.

...

The authoritative Moscow Defense Brief said Russia lost six planes, not four as the government announced at the time, in a report citing military sources and media reports that is to be published on Thursday in its quarterly edition.

"The absence of cooperation between the Russian Army and Air Force led them to conduct completely separate campaigns," said the journal, published by the independent Moscow-based think tank, the Centre for Analysis of Strategies and Technologies.

"Pilots were not fully apprised of the situation on the ground, received inexact and late intelligence, and at the start of hostilities ... they did not even have exact information on the structure and strength of the Georgian Air Defense Forces." Official data provided by deputy chief of the General Staff Colonel-General Anatoly Nogovitsyn showed Russia lost three Su-25 ground attack aircraft and one Tu-22M3 long-range bomber.

But providing crew names, exact times, locations and types of aircraft, the Moscow Defense Brief argued that Russia in fact had lost six aircraft in combat during the five-day war.

The two aircraft that were lost but not mentioned in official reports were Su-24M front-line bombers, the report said.

...

"Russian Ground Forces ... were not sure until the end of combat whether Russia's aviation had achieved air superiority," the Moscow Defense Brief said.

"Russian aircraft were frequently taken by Russian and Ossetian forces for Georgian aircraft, and they were fired upon without identification and in the absence of any aggressive action on their part."
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  #2  
Old 10 Jul 09, 10:26
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Actually those were Western agents infiltrated in the Russian military that shot the planes down.
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  #3  
Old 10 Jul 09, 11:30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joea View Post
Actually those were Western agents infiltrated in the Russian military that shot the planes down.
No need for Western agents here. According to some versions of Gary Powers' U2 downing, the Soviet AA rockets hit a few Soviet interceptors as well.
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  #4  
Old 10 Jul 09, 19:18
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Eh... they better make up their mind... in a earlier article MDB says it is 7 planes

Quote:
The overall losses of Russian Air Force amounted to one Tu-22M3 long-range bomber, one Su-24M Fencer frontal bomber, one Su-24MR Fencer E reconnaissance plane, and four Su-25 attack planes.
http://mdb.cast.ru/mdb/3-2008/item3/article1/
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  #5  
Old 10 Jul 09, 19:22
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Here is an other article from MDB on Georgian AA systems
http://mdb.cast.ru/mdb/3-2008/item3/article3/

Quote:
The war in South Ossetia marked the first time when air power faced off against new-generation SAM systems, like the Buk-M1, which were brought into service in the 1980s. In all previous military campaigns, such as the War in Vietnam, the Arab-Israeli Wars of 1967, 1973, and 1982, combat actions in Chad and Libya in the 1980s, the NATO campaigns in the former Yugoslavia of 1994 and 1999, and the Wars in the Persian Gulf of 1991 and 2003, the air-defense systems in question were all designed in the 1950s and 1960s (this excludes, of course, the use of modern MANPADs). Moreover, in Georgia, the Russian Air Force for the first time in its history fought against modern air-defense systems, and relatively modern and numerous SAM systems at that.
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  #6  
Old 13 Jul 09, 10:50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShAA View Post
No need for Western agents here. According to some versions of Gary Powers' U2 downing, the Soviet AA rockets hit a few Soviet interceptors as well.

Hmm well we have a few incidents in the recent Middle East/Central Asia wars of "friendly fire" mostly from US, since they have the most stuff to shoot more than anything else.

Heck there still is controvery as to how effective the Patriot missle was during Gulf War 1 (or was it 2... the 1991 version anyway).

Interesting fact ShAA.
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Old 13 Jul 09, 13:27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joea View Post
Interesting fact ShAA.
I've just looked up the description of the shotdown - they fired an extra salvo of S-75 rockets already after Powers' plane had been hit. The two MiG-19 interceptors that were sent after the U-2 followed the standard procedure when the lead plane turned on its FOF transmitter while the other one didn't, and they flew too far from each other to be taken for one plane by the radar crews. Senior lieutenant Sergey Safronov was killed in this friendly fire accident.

The whole problem was in the lack of coordination between different branches of the military and the extraordinary nature of this interception.
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Old 15 Jul 09, 15:23
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Always a danger when both sides fly the same types of aircraft.
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