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  #16  
Old 04 Jun 09, 01:04
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kentek View Post
World's Oldest Pottery

Pottery dated to around 18,000 years ago has been found in a cave in China.
Nice find.
Quote from the article:"The way people move around and mess up caves is very difficult to see archaeologically," David Cohen, an archaeologist at Boston University and a co-author on the research, told BBC News.
Imagine you have a fire and then people come in again have another fire and another, so you have the ashes of all these fires building up but at the same time people are digging and clearing, pushing things to the side; this messes things up.

If you have an open-air site, you sometimes get a very clean 'layer cake' stratigraphy. Archaeologists before haven't looked at this closely enough to realise what's going on in caves so they interpret this stratigraphy as a layer cake. But in actuality, it's 'lenses' of stuff that's been mixed up and moved around."

Cohen identifies a potential problem with this dating method. Most testing is probably near correct but disturbance can almost never be calculated. This applies to open air sites also.

Isotope testing can be the most important tool archeologists' utilize. Combined with other dating methods "absolute" dates can be determined.
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Old 04 Jun 09, 11:09
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BriteLite View Post
Nice find.
Quote from the article:"The way people move around and mess up caves is very difficult to see archaeologically," David Cohen, an archaeologist at Boston University and a co-author on the research, told BBC News.
Imagine you have a fire and then people come in again have another fire and another, so you have the ashes of all these fires building up but at the same time people are digging and clearing, pushing things to the side; this messes things up.

If you have an open-air site, you sometimes get a very clean 'layer cake' stratigraphy. Archaeologists before haven't looked at this closely enough to realise what's going on in caves so they interpret this stratigraphy as a layer cake. But in actuality, it's 'lenses' of stuff that's been mixed up and moved around."

Cohen identifies a potential problem with this dating method. Most testing is probably near correct but disturbance can almost never be calculated. This applies to open air sites also.

Isotope testing can be the most important tool archeologists' utilize. Combined with other dating methods "absolute" dates can be determined.
Cohen is overstating the total idiocy of archaeologists for the popular press. There is an entire field of study in archaeology of disturbances, etc., usually under the rubric of "site formation processes." It's something archaeologists study very carefully.
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  #18  
Old 04 Jun 09, 11:19
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excellent dialogue from both. now comes the problem i havent quite worked out here...yet... as obviously this is not a true sub forum where individual threads can be maintained for further discussion.

iow my next/your next/ post might be on an entirely different subject of theorem, fact, opinon, discovery etc.

ntl if this occurs just jump right back to where you were and pick up from where you left off. what makes this work is participation.

hopefully we can one day see a subforum dealing with science and archaeology/anthropoplogy.

---------------------------

and so always remembering that angels watch over me...and they may get us the aforesaid subforum.......

Ethiopia: lifting the mystery on rock churches 'built by angels'

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20090531...haeologyfrance
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Old 04 Jun 09, 11:44
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Thumbs down ."...we sell for less, guaranteed..."

[QUOTE=kentek;
Pottery dated to around 18,000 years ago has been found in a cave in China.[/QUOTE]

They could tell because it still had the WalMart price sticker on it..



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  #20  
Old 04 Jun 09, 12:02
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Talking ...he stuck in his thumb...

...sorry CV...didn't realize how serious this thread was. To make amends I shall tell you of digging in my backyard, which has been a backyard since 1668. (No kidding my house is REALLY that old...goes back to a King's Grant) No matter where I dig (for a flower/veggie garden or a fencepost) I seem to come up with something from the past. Most of the time in the spring, the veggie garden will yield stuff that has somehow worked its way to the surface. Last month, for example, I dug a shallow trench to plant potato sets and came up with a ladies victorian silver and onyx ring probably dating from about the 1880's. Pottery shards galore from majolica to Rockingham. All kinds of glass bottles. I just wish that I could find the gold hoard. One of these days I'm going to have my bud the state archaeologist come over and we'll excavate the old well (it could be the privy) to see what folks have lost there over the years. I'll let you know what we come up with.
By the way, I REALLY like the idea of an archaeology sub-forum.
Cheers, jose



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Last edited by Jose50; 04 Jun 09 at 12:03.. Reason: speling errrors and typoos
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  #21  
Old 04 Jun 09, 12:13
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ah no probs pard and thanks for the stories....keep posting...and us informed on yer backyard.

many years ago...We... iow. me and pards.... used to regularly find native stuff just north of my families ranch, and aside from some arrowheads...my grannie, made us regularly go put it back....

the damage ntl had of course been done (inadvertently and thru our kid ignorance)....from a scientific perspective.

but she revered her Mexican and Native American ancestors greatly and i have never done it again.

that area was subsequently studied and catalogued by N.Texas and Tech the correct way and the artifacts were taken to varying museums and school depts.


best
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  #22  
Old 04 Jun 09, 13:52
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Nice that they found their way to those educational places rather than the antiquities market.
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Old 04 Jun 09, 13:52
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Although, said antiquities market is rather lucrative...
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  #24  
Old 04 Jun 09, 14:05
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ah pardner now there u've said a plateful...it is.

and while i understand the desire to personally be close to one's heritage etc....i'm a historian and promote the ed ops for us all....

the raping of national treasures, with no defense intended, has a very ancient tradition and history by the victors over the defeated. all sorts of Freudian psycho babbler possibilities there. Some would claim that other nations during the heyday of such activities, were in a better state to preserve them...possibly. and in some cases a analogy that these led to the creation of archaeology as a well respected science is apt...but that state no longer truly exists in the vast majority of places now.

I would very much like to see the approach taken that reflects one of respect and deference to customs and traditions being honored altho while studying and preserving the objects and artifacts simo. This is often very difficult....and respect remains the key word.

eg. i have personally studied many battlefields of the old American west for my personal and subsequently professional use...but never took an object from the same....as and while i am a mil/historian i am not a professionally trained archaeo/anthropo. I respect the dead, like my grannie, with something that sometimes equally approaches her fervor.

thanks pard.
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Old 04 Jun 09, 14:58
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Caves, as an example

Quote:
Originally Posted by Centrix Vigilis View Post
excellent dialogue from both. now comes the problem i havent quite worked out here...yet... as obviously this is not a true sub forum where individual threads can be maintained for further discussion.

iow my next/your next/ post might be on an entirely different subject of theorem, fact, opinon, discovery etc.

ntl if this occurs just jump right back to where you were and pick up from where you left off. what makes this work is participation.

hopefully we can one day see a subforum dealing with science and archaeology/anthropoplogy.

---------------------------

and so always remembering that angels watch over me...and they may get us the aforesaid subforum.......

Ethiopia: lifting the mystery on rock churches 'built by angels'

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20090531...haeologyfrance
No0 problem - we have the means to label each response. The keeps the replies labeled and on track. For example: "Caves".
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Old 04 Jun 09, 15:25
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didnt know this. thanks MM.
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  #27  
Old 05 Jun 09, 10:53
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Exploring the mystery of the Nikwasi Mound

http://www.maconnews.com/index.php?o...4815&Itemid=87
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  #28  
Old 05 Jun 09, 11:50
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CV - have you any idea of what may be found in the Nikwasi Mound? Are there any instances of similar/nearby mounds being excavated/looted?
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Old 05 Jun 09, 12:13
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most probably similar artifacts of the mound building cultures in Ohio and north Georgia.... Cahokia etc. or variations on the theme.

Cyrus Thompson and Clarence Moore, postulated (late 1800's early 1900's) that they were distinctly early mesoamerican related iirc, from a class over 3o years ago......but this has been discredited in the main, and most in the field believe the mound cultures to have been a systematically developed one; with accumulation of varying societies which would include their known and hypothized artifacts and tools.

as to looting...yup reports abound...see: http://www.nps.gov/nr/travel/mounds/intro.htm

http://www.goodminds.com/booksatom/L...uts-Tomb-.html

many more examples.

good source on overall info is here.....The Mound Builders of Ancient North America By Barrie E. Kavasch, E. Barrie Kavasch

best
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Old 05 Jun 09, 12:35
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Some of the graphic interpretations of the mounds are reminiscent of the Mayan and Aztec pyramids found further to the south...
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