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World Terrorism and War in AfghanistanDiscuss the GWOT, how to defeat terrorists, and the effects of terror around the globe.
The Taliban may very well be more willing to fight harder and give up their lives more readily than the soldiers of the Pakistani military, but, that's all right, each one willing to give his life for his cause is one less to fight in a future combat operation. Also, the Taliban are not nearly as organized as a modern military is and their fighting will be a lot more disorganized and sloppy.
I have 2 questions.
1. Who is putting up the money for the Taliban to buy food, guns, ammo, hand grenades, payoffs to local elders, etc.?
2. How they are being smuggled the weapons? It has to be coming through Pakistan, Afghanistan or Chicom.
I'm GUESSING that Saudia Arabia citizens have a lot of money donated to the Taliban cause.
__________________
"If you are right, then you are right even if everyone says you are wrong. If you are wrong then you are wrong even if everyone says you are right." William Penn.
1) The Pakistani ISI is at least the critical middle man if not the main bankroller.
2) That's the kicker. The weapons are coming from inside Pakistan proper, see the answer to 1) . The ISI is more or less a state within a state. It's really govt schizophrenia here, on the one hand the civilian govt wants to get rid of the Taliban,but on the other the ISI supports them. Who knows how much of the US aid is derailed by the ISI to the Taliban? Challenging the ISI is the first and necessary step to dismantling the Taliban.
There's really no other place the weapons could be coming from. Iran has no love for the Taliban,neither does India or China or the Central Asian 'stans to the North.
The US badly needs to review who its friends and enemies are and heck,wether it wants to be involved in the whole mess in the first place.
1) The Pakistani ISI is at least the critical middle man if not the main bankroller.
2) That's the kicker. The weapons are coming from inside Pakistan proper, see the answer to 1) . The ISI is more or less a state within a state. It's really govt schizophrenia here, on the one hand the civilian govt wants to get rid of the Taliban,but on the other the ISI supports them. Who knows how much of the US aid is derailed by the ISI to the Taliban? Challenging the ISI is the first and necessary step to dismantling the Taliban.
There's really no other place the weapons could be coming from. Iran has no love for the Taliban,neither does India or China or the Central Asian 'stans to the North.
The US badly needs to review who its friends and enemies are and heck,wether it wants to be involved in the whole mess in the first place.
Thank you for your lot of speculation and no sources.
The ISI is mostly military, recruited from the same officers and men who have lost hundreds fighting the Taliban in the past 2 years alone. It makes no sense for them to continue supplying the same fighters who are busy slitting throats of their own people.
I have 2 questions.
1. Who is putting up the money for the Taliban to buy food, guns, ammo, hand grenades, payoffs to local elders, etc.?
2. How they are being smuggled the weapons? It has to be coming through Pakistan, Afghanistan or Chicom.
I'm GUESSING that Saudia Arabia citizens have a lot of money donated to the Taliban cause.
1. Its us, because we keep buying their oil.
2. They make their own guns.
What I don't understand is why the people there tolerate the Taliban.
They have to be the best armed civilian population on the planet.
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Anything important is never left to the vote of the people. We only get to vote on some man; we never get to vote on what he is to do.
Will Rogers
Thank you for your lot of speculation and no sources.
The ISI is mostly military, recruited from the same officers and men who have lost hundreds fighting the Taliban in the past 2 years alone. It makes no sense for them to continue supplying the same fighters who are busy slitting throats of their own people.
What...I need sources for the ISI involvement with the Taliban? Jeez, why don't you ask for sources that the Earth is round.
"The ISI is mostly military, recruited from the same officers and men who have lost hundreds fighting the Taliban in the past 2 years alone" - sources please.
P.S. : Bwaha,come on man. "Make their own guns"? Surely,the AK-47 is no feat of engineering finesse,but it's not a "DIY gun" either.
According to my MSG, the Pakistani ops are a joke. They state they kill 200 in a day? Yeah right, why aren't we getting numbers like that in Afghanistan? They kill civilians and count them as enemy.
"The ISI is mostly military, recruited from the same officers and men who have lost hundreds fighting the Taliban in the past 2 years alone" - sources please.
P.S. : Bwaha,come on man. "Make their own guns"? Surely,the AK-47 is no feat of engineering finesse,but it's not a "DIY gun" either.
According to my MSG, the Pakistani ops are a joke. They state they kill 200 in a day? Yeah right, why aren't we getting numbers like that in Afghanistan? They kill civilians and count them as enemy.
You are absolutely right, but the worst part is it appears like the Pakis are duping us right now and they have duped us all along since 9/11 and we keep falling for it over and over again. When are we going to catch up with this game.
Bwaha is correct, they have entire villages dedicated in the manufacturing of weaponry:
As far as I've seen in that video, it seems that they apparently have the ability to create some others as well.
The Pashtuns do have along standing history of copying foreign made firearms especially the lee-enfield and ak-47. However these copies are of a very poor quality and very dangerous for the user and accident prone. They come nowhere near the quality of the original manufaturer, although to person without experience with firearms they may look identical.
1) The Pakistani ISI is at least the critical middle man if not the main bankroller.
2) That's the kicker. The weapons are coming from inside Pakistan proper, see the answer to 1) . The ISI is more or less a state within a state. It's really govt schizophrenia here, on the one hand the civilian govt wants to get rid of the Taliban,but on the other the ISI supports them. Who knows how much of the US aid is derailed by the ISI to the Taliban? Challenging the ISI is the first and necessary step to dismantling the Taliban.
There's really no other place the weapons could be coming from. Iran has no love for the Taliban,neither does India or China or the Central Asian 'stans to the North.
The US badly needs to review who its friends and enemies are and heck,wether it wants to be involved in the whole mess in the first place.
The fact of the matter is Pak is playing a waiting game, hoping the US will get fed up and just pack its bags in Afghanisthan and then it is back to business as usual they are back in bed with tha Taliban openly. Pak has no will or intention to rein in the Taliban because the Taliban is a Pak creation and it is a tool serving pak's strategic goals.
"The ISI is mostly military, recruited from the same officers and men who have lost hundreds fighting the Taliban in the past 2 years alone" - sources please.
RaduRO,
I owe you a source for this and a response. Havent had the time, sorry.
Just wanted to post this new link I thought is fascinating: seems like US training is paying off and the Pakistanis were able to mount a heliborne assault to places where their infantry had failed.
Pakistan raids Taleban stronghold
Pakistan is broadening its offensive against about 5,000 militants
Pakistan's army says it has dropped troops by helicopter to tackle a Taleban stronghold as part of a broadening offensive in the north-west.
Ok RaduRO,
You sure had me work for that one. But you had done your homework, so I had no choice
Just a couple of points: The Janes article and the CFR article are by Rahul Bedi and Jayshree Bajoria respectively. Both Indians. Having Indians report on Pakistan would be like the Turks giving an account of the Ottoman occupation of Rumania vs. a Rumanian account.
Likewise the PBS report was by Steve Coll: never a big fan of Musharraf or the Pakistani effort in general.
However, the rest have more merit. The Guardian reported in May of 2002. The Pakistanis openly admit they had ties with the Taliban back then (in fact they admit they set up the structure) Part of what pissed off the Taliban so much was Pakistan’s about turn in 2001 when the US told them to. However, after the Bamiyan Buddhas were destroyed by the Taliban despite international pleas, the Pakistanis pretty much knew that their creation was out of their hands. (I read somewhere that the Pakistanis sent the 3-star general who was head of the ISI to try and dissuade them, but failed – I need to dig up that source for you).
So since 2001, the Pakistan military has tried to distance itself from the Taliban groups. In another thread I asked why the ISI would insist on helping the Taliban when they themselves are fighting?
GCoyote had a very good response, something I had not thought of before: http://www.armchairgeneral.com/forum...22#post1156492
In short, the ISI is not a monolith – as with most large intelligence agencies, they are highly fragmented and operate autonomously. This made me realize something that might be even more pertinent here: We in the west assume the “Taliban” is one group of fellows, headed by a central command. However, this is simply not true. The reason they are so hard to beat out is because they are a loosely allied bunch of perhaps hundreds of groups. I wouldn’t doubt if the ISI had contacts with some of these. But then, the US does too. The Brits talk to some “moderate” ones. The Afghan President invited certain select groups to talks as well. So there is a good chance the ISI remains in talk with some of the groups. But not being in the intelligence community, I can only say with reasonable surely that the ones the Pakistani Army is battling in the Northwest have no official connections to anyone in the ISI – even though they might have in the past.
Which brings me to your last question: the ISI connection with Pakistan Army: http://www.fas.org/irp/world/pakistan/isi/ reports that their personnel are recruited from the Pakistan military and paramilitaries. I also happen to know personally from having deployed in the region and military colleagues who were in the Pakistan-Afghan theater.
Phew! I think we should go back to posting taunts and jeers like some other threads. its much easier!!
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I knew the area was living under its own laws,but that's Wild West right there! Was that a FAMAS?
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