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Go Back   Armchair General and HistoryNet >> The Best Forums in History > Current Events > Russia, Central Asia, and The Caucasus > South Ossetian Conflict

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South Ossetian Conflict Discuss the conflict between Georgia and Russia over South Ossetia.

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  #46  
Old 02 May 09, 05:56
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Originally Posted by Erkki View Post

Oh come on, Georgiasn military equipment was better then the Russian!
It is irrelevant statement. The military build-up of the RF and Georgian armed forces is incomparable.


Quote:
Yep ...
"Sapers are the most dangerus troops in the Russian army, no guns just showels."
They used to say about Soviet stroybat and not about sapers.


Quote:
HA! Where did you find this? You know military forces have plans for everything, The US have plans to Attak Russia, would that justify Russia to attak them just beacause they have plans?

The RF plans and actions clearly consist in breaking up Georgia. The local separatist regimes have artificial nature and exist only due to being full Kremlin's puppets. These regimes have never wanted any independence, they just distributed Russian citizenship to locals after conducting ethnic cleansing of Georgians and others. Both separatist regimes have recently signed the treaty with the RF about delagating border guarding duties along the rest of Georgia to Russian frontier guards. So it just goes about the illegal annexation and occupation of Georgian territory by the RF.

Last edited by Shamil; 02 May 09 at 06:08..
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  #47  
Old 02 May 09, 06:00
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Originally Posted by Erkki View Post
Have anything more detailed?
http://www.rferl.org/content/article/1077879.html
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  #48  
Old 02 May 09, 10:06
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Originally Posted by Shamil View Post
It is irrelevant statement. The military build-up of the RF and Georgian armed forces is incomparable.
The RF plans and actions clearly consist in breaking up Georgia. The local separatist regimes have artificial nature and exist only due to being full Kremlin's puppets. These regimes have never wanted any independence, they just distributed Russian citizenship to locals after conducting ethnic cleansing of Georgians and others. Both separatist regimes have recently signed the treaty with the RF about delagating border guarding duties along the rest of Georgia to Russian frontier guards. So it just goes about the illegal annexation and occupation of Georgian territory by the RF.
Plans or no plans, but ordinary Georgians simply did not resist to Russian Army. When Russians arrived to Poti port, there were no Georgian military, all their navy without crews. Citizens awaited Russians in Tbilisi, hoping, they will be back in USSR. Some Georgian generals hoped that Saakashvili will break his neck. Tell us how independent this hysterical US citizen with Dutch wife is. And how you know Russian plans about Georgia?
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  #49  
Old 02 May 09, 10:19
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Originally Posted by Shamil View Post
It is official Kremlin shitty stuff to feed Russian hurrah-patriots as they can eat only propagandist **** prepared in old Soviet style.

If the US had wanted to start a war and make serious problems for the RF, Washington would have raised the Georgian Armed forces to the appropriate level. However, nothing was done to prepare Georgia for the war with the RF. Georgians failed to mobilise reservists in time and even their best brigade was in Iraq when the war began. In the meantime the RF conducted military exercises in the North Osetia on the eve of the war, sent its troops to repare railroad in Abhazia that was later used for the attack on Georgia. All the Georgian actions were rather the delayed unprepared reaction to the planned RF ones.
It was N. Starikov in a book “Cherchez la oil”. Do you insist, that US does not have interest in Caspian oil and NABUCCO project?
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  #50  
Old 02 May 09, 10:31
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Originally Posted by Fareasterner View Post
Plans or no plans, but ordinary Georgians simply did not resist to Russian Army. When Russians arrived to Poti port, there were no Georgian military, all their navy without crews.
How can unprepared civilians without weapon resist regular troops? Let's imagine that China invaded the RF and soon some column of Chinese tanks pass by your house. How would you resist at that moment?

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Citizens awaited Russians in Tbilisi, hoping, they will be back in USSR.
You mean Georgians were lost in time like you and did not know that the USSR had ceased to exist almost 20 years ago?


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Some Georgian generals hoped that Saakashvili will break his neck.
Yeah, it is information from FSB extrasens that managed to read the thoughts of the adversary generals then.

Quote:
Tell us how independent this hysterical US citizen with Dutch wife is. And how you know Russian plans about Georgia?
Oups, he is not a US citizen. What is bad in a Dutch wife?

As to Russian plans, the Russian creation and support of separatist S.O and Abhazian regimes and thus breaking up Georgia have always been evident. Moscow attempted to separate Adjaria as well but failed to succeed because this region does not border on the RF and as a result the regime of local Moscow-backed separatist Abashidze collapsed within days without any military actions on behalf of Tbilisi. The same will happen with its counterparts in Abhazia and S. O. if they are deprived of Moscow's support.

Last edited by Shamil; 02 May 09 at 10:42..
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  #51  
Old 02 May 09, 10:37
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Originally Posted by Fareasterner View Post
It was N. Starikov in a book “Cherchez la oil”. Do you insist, that US does not have interest in Caspian oil and NABUCCO project?
NABUCCO pipeline has never been planned to be build across S.O. or Abhazia. If the US is interested in the project, then the war in the region certainly does not fit its interests. The only side that is not interested in NABUCCO is the RF. Consequently, the war and destabilisation in Georgia is advatageous for Moscow

Last edited by Shamil; 02 May 09 at 10:49..
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  #52  
Old 02 May 09, 11:46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erkki View Post
They did, there was some worries the Russians would shot the planes down.




Then it would be hundreds of small states around that must be allowed to leave...
You missed my point. They would of been sent back before fighting started. If it all was a US plan.


and to the other part that is why I also said it does not make sense for them to want to be seperate. At this rate the whole world will be back to city states.

Last edited by craven; 02 May 09 at 11:49..
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  #53  
Old 02 May 09, 12:51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craven View Post
You missed my point. They would of been sent back before fighting started. If it all was a US plan.
Mad misha thought must of it up on his own, in the begining US was blamed by the Russians which I now belive was wrong.



Quote:
and to the other part that is why I also said it does not make sense for them to want to be seperate. At this rate the whole world will be back to city states.
To me It make some sense, I for example would prefer to be independent from Sweden, Norway,Finland and Russia.
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  #54  
Old 02 May 09, 13:00
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shamil View Post
It is irrelevant statement. The military build-up of the RF and Georgian armed forces is incomparable.
Not at all, the ratio of forces in the region at the start of the war was approximatly 1:1. Don´t be as stupid as swedish media to compare Russias entire army to Georgias.




Quote:
They used to say about Soviet stroybat and not about sapers.
Well I have heard both





Quote:
The RF plans and actions clearly consist in breaking up Georgia.
Ah now I understand Mad Miho is just a Russian marionet that they ordered to attak Russia?

Quote:
The local separatist regimes have artificial nature and exist only due to being full Kremlin's puppets.
Well some claim that to be the case of your goverment, white house in that case. And the few seperatist over here recieve no Kremlin or US support, but they still exist, how come?
Quote:
These regimes have never wanted any independence,
And the war in 1991?
Quote:
they just distributed Russian citizenship to locals after conducting ethnic cleansing of Georgians and others.
er
That you didn´t have to acept
Quote:
Both separatist regimes have recently signed the treaty with the RF about delagating border guarding duties along the rest of Georgia to Russian frontier guards.
Well now if Mad Miho hadn´t ordered the attak he would still have Georgians in the peacekeeping force.


Quote:
So it just goes about the illegal annexation and occupation of Georgian territory by the RF.
nope, S Ossetia has only been part of Georgia during the USSR period.
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  #55  
Old 02 May 09, 13:09
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shamil View Post
Thank you.

Pretty low quality of that video and anoying with those blue signs...
How high is the velocity of a GP-25 Grenate?
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  #56  
Old 02 May 09, 13:13
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Originally Posted by Erkki View Post
How high is the velocity of a GP-25 Grenate?
For AGS-17/30P
m/s 185
For Gp-25 andGp-30
m/s 76.5 75




http://www.warfare.ru/?lang=&catid=3...P-25-AND-GP-30

Now somebody with more experience then me can maybe tell if it is possibel to see these objects in flight?
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  #57  
Old 02 May 09, 13:20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shamil View Post
How can unprepared civilians without weapon resist regular troops?
Or Georgian Regulars for that matter?

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Let's imagine that China invaded the RF and soon some column of Chinese tanks pass by your house. How would you resist at that moment?
Lay a stone on the road, it would brake that track of the tank. Or even better, lay a piece of a sidewalk, I have seen that stop a US tank




Quote:
As to Russian plans, the Russian creation and support of separatist S.O and Abhazian regimes and thus breaking up Georgia have always been evident. Moscow attempted to separate Adjaria as well but failed to succeed because this region does not border on the RF and as a result the regime of local Moscow-backed separatist Abashidze collapsed within days without any military actions on behalf of Tbilisi. The same will happen with its counterparts in Abhazia and S. O. if they are deprived of Moscow's support.
Will you claim that the Russians are behind Somali Pirates, the black death, nuclear bombs, the economical crises and illegal abortions aswell?
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  #58  
Old 03 May 09, 09:15
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Originally Posted by Erkki View Post
Not at all, the ratio of forces in the region at the start of the war was approximatly 1:1. Don´t be as stupid as swedish media to compare Russias entire army to Georgias.
Oh, you just said a stupidity. The Russian 58th Army located in the region is twice larger than all the Georgian Armed forces altogether. The air forces of two states involved in the conflict are out of comparison at all.



Quote:
Ah now I understand Mad Miho is just a Russian marionet that they ordered to attak Russia?
Mad Miho is the name invented by the Russian Media


Quote:
Well some claim that to be the case of your goverment, white house in that case. And the few seperatist over here recieve no Kremlin or US support, but they still exist, how come?
Yeah, your favorite Kremlin Media claim that.


Quote:
And the war in 1991?
er
That you didn´t have to acept
Oupsd there was no wars in 1991 in Georgia. In 1991 there was only unrest in South Osetia. On the whole the S. O and Abhazia were separated by Russians during the civil war in Georgia 1992-1993 between Zviad Gamsakhurdia's supporters and government when Georgia could not concentrate on the war with Moscow-backed separatists.


Quote:
Well now if Mad Miho hadn´t ordered the attak he would still have Georgians in the peacekeeping force.
Georgian peace-keepers had been consistently attacked and killed before major conflict.


Quote:
nope, S Ossetia has only been part of Georgia during the USSR period.
Nope, the present day South Osetia lies in the territory of the historical Georgian principality of Samachablo. It was the place where Ossetians found refuge from Mongol invaders.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samachablo
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  #59  
Old 03 May 09, 09:17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craven View Post
You missed my point. They would of been sent back before fighting started. If it all was a US plan. .
Saakhashwili would not dared to make something substantial without US orders, for he is unpopular in Georgia.
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Originally Posted by craven View Post
and to the other part that is why I also said it does not make sense for them to want to be seperate. At this rate the whole world will be back to city states.
As if it has sense for Georgia to be separate, when about 30% Georgians moved to Russia after separation; Georgia is 100% dependent from Russia economically. May be there would be more of them, but people and authorities in Russia are not very happy with millions immigrants and gastarbeiters from former USSR states, who often do not comply with local ways and habits as it is the case in Europe with immigrants from Moslem states.
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Old 03 May 09, 09:49
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Originally Posted by Erkki View Post

Lay a stone on the road, it would brake that track of the tank. Or even better, lay a piece of a sidewalk, I have seen that stop a US tank
Stone break a track of the tank? Invent something more realistic. Piece of a sidewalk? Only some large concrete blocks that can be moved only by cranes will be helpful. Georgia is much smaller than Iraq so time for constructing some obstacles are absent. Besides In case Iraq the was the preparation period for the war. It is clear that the Georgians had no preparations for war.



Quote:
Will you claim that the Russians are behind Somali Pirates, the black death, nuclear bombs, the economical crises and illegal abortions aswell?
Today the RF can spoil life only for neighbouring countries. The weaker the country the higher probability for the RF's attack.

Russians as individuals can be easily manipulated and subjugated to anyone.
They don't care about the real state of things and prefer to be fed with fairy tales about their greatness. Another thing is the USSR successor the RF regime exploits this Russian trait. A short war is excellent PR move for Kremlin. It does not matter how weak the enemy is, average Russian will be in ecstasy from its government for invading or attacking some country anyway.
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