Nothing seems to be lost here. I meant this thread, as he started speaking about the Soviet atrocities while the tread is obviously related to the German ones.
The very way you're putting it implies some kind of moral equivalence here. By making broad statements like this one loses the ethical side of the war from his sight: whose cause was just and whose wasn't. This is equal to saying that the work of the police is all bloody and dirty business (which is true to an extent), while in fact it's about helping and saving people.
I think BOTH sides were shitstains, sorry. As for this thread, I feel heartily sorry for the victims of Leningrad, as they were lost in a battle of pawns between two nutjobs. Innocent people should never have to die. This thread does show the amount of sacrfice made by the people of the Soviet Union and it is haunting that totallity of that total war.
Everyone was involved in the fight. Makes the head ache!
This is where we fundamentally disagree, but I see no point in starting a discussion here.
I suppose, but you cannot honestly defend the leadership of either Stalin or Hitler? Add in Mao and those three have the most blood on their hands of any three individuals to ever to walk the earth (except such characters as jesus and Muhammad but we won't go there)
To each his own, I guess. Those pictures are absolutely tremendous, and I hope you wont mind that I emailed the link to this thread to my old hockey buddies, both of whom are from Kiev.
Last edited by Legionnaire66; 20 Jul 09 at 20:47..
I suppose, but you cannot honestly defend the leadership of either Stalin or Hitler? Add in Mao and those three have the most blood on their hands of any three individuals to ever to walk the earth (except such characters as jesus and Muhammad but we won't go there
I'm not supporting Stalin at all, but I would have fought under his command to save my country and people. Just like millions of Soviet people in the ranks of the Red Army who fought for that.
Quote:
To each his own, I guess. Those pictures are absolutely tremendous, and I hope you wont mind that I emailed the link to this thread to my old hockey buddies, both of whom are from Kiev.
I'm not supporting Stalin at all, but I would have fought under his command to save my country and people. Just like millions of Soviet people in the ranks of the Red Army who fought for that.
Not at all, spread the word!
I agree, I would have too. I just wouldn't have liked it
__________________ "The people never have the power, only the illusion of it. And here is the real secret: they don't want it. The responsibility is too great to bear. It's why they are so quick to fall in line as soon as someone else takes charge."
"
Great picures of a sad time. Stalin played no roll in the suffering of the people of Lennigrad at tis time.
Quote:
I am tired and sick of war. Its glory is all moonshine. It is only those who have neither fired a shot nor heard the shrieks and groans of the wounded who cry aloud for blood, for vengeance, for desolation. War is hell.
William Tecumseh Sherman
__________________ "Ask not what your country can do for you"
Left wing, Right Wing same bird that they are killing.
you’re entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.
Stalin played no roll in the suffering of the people of Lennigrad at tis time.
It's still a subject of heated discussions. He had little regard for human life, for sure, but he indeed tried his best to relieve the city - there were 3 failed breakthrough operations throughout 1941-1942.
The "Ghosts of Leningrad" photos are truly fantastic! Thank you for sharing!
In my opinion, these photos transcend time and ideology. They are a work of true genius.
As an aside, it is surprising to see the apparent prosperity and modernity in today's Russia. It is quite different from my impression of Russia, based on descriptions of Moscow in the 80's. Is Moscow so different from Leningrad, or are my mental images very out of date?
PS: In reply to the comment about the 60 year-old buildings; visit downtown in any midwestern US city and note the number of buildings from the late 1890's through the 1930's that are preserved, updated and still in use. You will find most of these prime properties today and bring a premium price! It doesn't matter much how old they are.
As an aside, it is surprising to see the apparent prosperity and modernity in today's Russia. It is quite different from my impression of Russia, based on descriptions of Moscow in the 80's. Is Moscow so different from Leningrad, or are my mental images very out of date?
Wait what? Moscow and Saint-Petersburg/Petrograd/Leningrad/Saint-Petersburg have always been modern cities.
The attitudes of the people from the two cities are indeed different, but a thought that two major cities in a large country are in the stone age is a bit much don't you think?
I don't think your mental images are as much "out of date" as they are just off base.
__________________
Кто там?
Это я - Почтальон Печкин!
Tunis is a Carthigenian city!
The "Ghosts of Leningrad" photos are truly fantastic! Thank you for sharing!
In my opinion, these photos transcend time and ideology. They are a work of true genius.
Thanks!
Quote:
As an aside, it is surprising to see the apparent prosperity and modernity in today's Russia. It is quite different from my impression of Russia, based on descriptions of Moscow in the 80's. Is Moscow so different from Leningrad, or are my mental images very out of date?
Well, the big cities can be considered prosperous on an almost European level - and Moscow is probably among the world's richest cities. But the countryside is quite run down and poor - it will probably take many years to drag it from it poverty.
Wait what? Moscow and Saint-Petersburg/Petrograd/Leningrad/Saint-Petersburg have always been modern cities.
The attitudes of the people from the two cities are indeed different, but a thought that two major cities in a large country are in the stone age is a bit much don't you think?
I don't think your mental images are as much "out of date" as they are just off base.
Don't go too harsh on him, Josh. You know it better than me that for most Americans (and many Westerners in general) the image of Russia is forever frozen since Cold War TV reports. And it's not exactly their blame that the free democratic media doesn't want to lose its old and well-recognisable brand
Here's a "Family Guy" episode that's been posted on some Russian news websites recently:
Don't go too harsh on him, Josh. You know it better than me that for most Americans (and many Westerners in general) the image of Russia is forever frozen since Cold War TV reports. And it's not exactly their blame that the free democratic media doesn't want to lose its old and well-recognisable brand
Here's a "Family Guy" episode that's been posted on some Russian news websites recently:
I'm pretty good at riding a unicycle I guess
__________________
Кто там?
Это я - Почтальон Печкин!
Tunis is a Carthigenian city!
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