Home again, finally.

[Ogukuo72]

Glad to have you back, safe and sound!

I'm interested to hear about the Stryker. Initially, I thought it was a bad idea to have wheeled armour instead of tracked armour. However, it seems that wheeled armour might survive better - if one or two of the wheel get blown up by a mine or IED, the others can still bring the vehicle home. For the M113, it'll usually mean a mobility kill as the tracks get delinked and run out.

[Golani]

Hi everybody!

Boonierat-
Unfortunately most of the IDF's casualties in this operation were caused by 'friendly' fire, the incident you are referring to happened in Sajai'ye, a different force (apparently combat engineers) mistakenly identified our forces, staying at a house as Hamas, without trying to link up on the radio and verify-they simply directed a tank to shoot the huse, which did a 2 shot salvo on it, 3 were killed 24 wounded, a company leader was among the killed, the battalion leader and brigade leader were among the wounded.

BTW, Lt. Ran Avraham, which I mentioned on the first post was hit by a mortar shell, also in a blue-on-blue incident.

CrazyArcher-
Very disappointed, wer'e simply soldiers and we do what wer'e told to, but we expected more, at least to stay in for a while in key locations to disrupt smuggling and high-trajectory weapons fire, maybe some info on Gilad Shalit would be nice....

Hamasisan-
I called it a show due do language barriers...Just wanted to stress I wanted to take an active role in this operation like I'm used to and not just a support one.
Nontheless, though I'm not that up to date, I think your numbers are very wrong.

Ogukuo-
Well, everything I'll say on the Strykr is from what I heared from the friend who tested it and from official reports, I myself, didn't even enter it.
The overall feel is satisfaction.
It's has great traversablity, sufficient armor (for low intensity combat environment, RPGs and mortar shells) but the greatest advantge was the fact that it was very still even at high speed, that allowed proper medical treatmeant for wounded even durin evacuation.
The only minus side I heard of is that the engine is not reliable.

Everybody else-
Thanks for the warm welcome

[Granatiere]

Welcome back Golani, I'm very glad to receive news from you.
My impression, out of Israel and the strip, was IDF's were ready for a greater ground operation, then they was stopped by politics.
Why? Fear of tsahal casualties or a bloodshed among civilians? However it seems to me only a small truce in the long struggle for Yeretz Israel's safety.

[Golani]

Originally Posted by Granatiere

Welcome back Golani, I'm very glad to receive news from you.
My impression, out of Israel and the strip, was IDF's were ready for a greater ground operation, then they was stopped by politics.
Why? Fear of tsahal casualties or a bloodshed among civilians? However it seems to me only a small truce in the long struggle for Yeretz Israel's safety.

I'll allow myself to talk politics, since it's unavoidable...

This whole thing stinks of an election stunt. it was perfectly coordinated with our elecations and Obama's swearing in.

Civilian casualties, both ours and theres, were minimal, so were the military casualties (plus we were more ready for them now), that is the only reason I can think of.

Bare in mind I'm just a very small screw in the system...

[Granatiere]

Uhm... I agree!!! It will be useful for Tzipi Livni or Ehud Barak?

[Golani]

Originally Posted by Granatiere

Uhm... I agree!!! It will be useful for Tzipi Livni or Ehud Barak?

Well, I'd say both...

From what I hear, the survies say that Barak has 3 more mandates today then what he had before the operation, Livni now has the security aspect and experience which she lacked.
And Bibi, well, pretty much stayed the same...

[Captain General]

Welcome back! I'm thankful you came through the operation safe and sound. I hope your wounded comrades have a full and speedy recovery.

I know you are disappointed with some of the results but I wanted to say job well done to you and your comrades.

[hamasian]

Originally Posted by Golani

Hi everybody!


Hamasisan-
I called it a show due do language barriers...Just wanted to stress I wanted to take an active role in this operation like I'm used to and not just a support one.
Nontheless, though I'm not that up to date, I think your numbers are very wrong.

OK let's get the reference then:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008%E2...3Gaza_conflict

[GCoyote]

The neutrality of this article is disputed.
Please see the discussion on the talk page.
Please do not remove this message until the dispute is resolved.

Even the Wikipedians are not ready to stand by this info just yet.

[hamasian]

This was just an example

Tell me what number u r disputing and I'll get u the necessary reference.

U get urs and we'll see

[GCoyote]

The Wiki article for instance has already been edited more than 40 times since the link to it was posted. My guess is that it will be a few days before an average set of numbers emerges. Even then I expect a certain level of disagreement based on the nature of this conflict.

The strongest arguments will stand on their own internal logic even if precisely accurate numbers cannot be agreed upon.

[Golani]

Originally Posted by hamasian

OK let's get the reference then:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008%E2...3Gaza_conflict

That is baseless.

We did what he had to DEFEND ourselves.
I know that every person we (my unit) took down was incriminated.
You won't beleive the number of family houses that were boby-trapped by Hamas, is that our fault too?
Or the rockets fired from schools?

We can go on and on about humen shields and so on, but there is no way out of it- bottem line:

We (The IDF) hit only incriminated people and where there is no other possibility those that are around them, we never ever intentionally hit innocent people, that's more than I can say for all out neighbours, both inside and out.

If I had to guess (since I really have no access to the figures and I can't believe there are real numbers yet) I would go with 10-15% civilian casualties, which may sound bad but is infect good figures in comparison with other conflicts in history.

[hamasian]

Originally Posted by Golani

That is baseless.

We did what he had to DEFEND ourselves.
I know that every person we (my unit) took down was incriminated.
You won't beleive the number of family houses that were boby-trapped by Hamas, is that our fault too?
Or the rockets fired from schools?

We can go on and on about humen shields and so on, but there is no way out of it- bottem line:

We (The IDF) hit only incriminated people and where there is no other possibility those that are around them, we never ever intentionally hit innocent people, that's more than I can say for all out neighbours, both inside and out.

If I had to guess (since I really have no access to the figures and I can't believe there are real numbers yet) I would go with 10-15% civilian casualties, which may sound bad but is infect good figures in comparison with other conflicts in history.

My dear:

- Calling this (defence) is ridiculous. Calling an army which has done nothing but aggression to neighbours over 60 years a (defence) army is even more ridiculous.

- The total number of militants killed during Lead cast was exactly 48 out of 1500
The number of civilians killed during the operation was approximately 97%.
This is maths: 1 + 1 = 2

How can children in THE UN schools be militants ?
How can ambulance staff be militants ?
How can journalists be militants ??!1

If this is not a war crime, then we should delete the concept from Geneva convention.

Even the 3% militants r not an organized army.

[Golani]

- You can be on the Defence but take Offensive measures, you can be aggresive even if your not the aggressor.

1947-war broke up when Arabs living in Israel attacked because of the UN decision to allow the existence of an Israeli nation, in 1948 all arab countries joinet in when independence was declared.
1956-Israel attacks Egypt after dozens (if not more) fedayeen radis were made from Sinai and after Egypt closed the suez canal.
1967-Isreal makes a pre-strike after arab forces had been messing up on the borders to ivade (and other events, such as Syria diverting water resources and Egypt closing tyrant strait.
1973-Syria and Egypt surprise ataack us.
1982&2006-Israel attacks Lebanon after countless rocket launches and terror raids had been done from their territory.

How the heck can you say wer'e the aggressor?!

How in the world do you get these numbers? did you walk the streets of Gaza turning every body and checking it? did you inspect every men before he died and made sure his innocent? your just reciting propogenda.

[cecilia]

glad your back in one piece.