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Go Back   Armchair General and HistoryNet >> The Best Forums in History > Current Events > The Middle East > Gaza Conflicts

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Gaza Conflicts Discuss the series of conflicts between Israel and Gaza militants.

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  #46  
Old 05 Feb 09, 12:02
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Golani View Post
I argue with people like JP and hamassian not because I wan't to change their opinion, I know it's fixed, I just don't want someone with less information and a wobbling opinion to read their posts, believe its the truth and take the wrong side in the conflict.
Frankly I don't think there is much chance of that happening on "the
best forums in history" They'd have better luck posting on "ladies home
journal" or "popular mechanics for kids".
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  #47  
Old 14 Feb 09, 01:29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BKnight3 View Post
He at the very least helped spread the hate, convinced a brigade of muslims to die for Hitler. According to some sources he recruited at least 20000 Bosnian Muslims to die for Hitler with the recruiting slogan being "help fight the jews." And yes this was when Hitler was alive and well.
He could have screamed all he wanted about fighting Jews, the fact remains that most if not all of the Bosnian Muslims joined the SS because they wanted to fight Serbs. Indeed, of all of the countries in Europe that came under Nazi domination, the only country that saw an increase in its Jewish population from the beginning of the war to the end was predominantly Muslim Albania.
http://www.raoulwallenberg.net/?en/p...tered.4808.htm

And the Mufti's words did not have much effect on Sultan Muhammad V of Morocco, who went out of his way to shield Jews from persecution by the "Christian" Vichy French.

http://www.isracast.com/article.aspx?ID=108

Last edited by JonathanPollard; 14 Feb 09 at 13:41..
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  #48  
Old 14 Feb 09, 05:52
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Historical Fact.

More Jews have been killed by Catholics than by any other faith.

Crusades

3rd Reich

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/...tism/pius.html

What did Pogo say?


“We have met the enemy and he is us.”
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  #49  
Old 18 Feb 09, 13:22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JonathanPollard View Post
AMONG THOSE suspected of war crimes, the rabbis have a place of honor.

Those who incite to war crimes and call upon soldiers, directly or indirectly, to commit war crimes may be guilty of a war crime themselves.
...

The most outstanding example is the “Chief Army Rabbi”, Colonel Avichai Ronsky, who has declared that his job is to reinforce the “fighting spirit” of the soldiers. He is a man of the extreme right, not far from the spirit of the late Rabbi Meir Kahane, whose party was outlawed in Israel for its fascist ideology. Under the auspices of the army rabbinate, religious-fascist brochures of the ultra-right “rabbis” were distributed to the soldiers.
...

The rabbis openly called upon the soldiers to be cruel and merciless towards the Arabs. To treat them mercifully, they stated, is a “terrible, awful immorality”. When such material is distributed to religious soldiers going into war, it is easy to see why things happened the way they did.

http://zope.gush-shalom.org/home/en/...ry/1233508695/

ahah right, and their representative party was outlawed...

In Gaza, the same type of party wins elections...
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  #50  
Old 27 Feb 09, 20:08
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Half Pint View Post
Historical Fact.

More Jews have been killed by Catholics than by any other faith.

Crusades

3rd Reich


http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/...tism/pius.html

What did Pogo say?


“We have met the enemy and he is us.”
True and does that mean every catholic is guilty and a threat to Jews, no only a racist bigot would consider that, so it be that not every Jew condones the civilian casualties of the palestinians.yet anyone who defends the civilian population of palestine in wordis deemed wrong or anti jewish when this is so far from the truth in most cases.
Catholics killed jews but they were not acting on the catholic Gods commandments.
Man kills man (mostly women and children in modern war) because of his selfish aims to say the bombings in Israel is because of Jewish belief is saying the old lie that Catholics persecuted Jews were following christian doctrine
it is all about power then power.
Religious leaders have always condoned war if it suits their purposes that is because they are men not God.
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  #51  
Old 28 Feb 09, 17:55
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Sad but very very true

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Originally Posted by aleph View Post
. . . Religious leaders have always condoned war if it suits their purposes that is because they are men not God.
I thought it was worth repeating your last point.
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  #52  
Old 08 Mar 09, 15:25
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If most palestinian Arabs (are guilty) living in Gaza voted/vote for GENOCIDE (AKA- HAMAS) party, what do you expect? read the Hamas GENOCIDE Charter?
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  #53  
Old 30 Mar 09, 08:13
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All civilians living in Gaza are collectively guilty for Kassam attacks on Sderot, former Sephardi chief rabbi Mordechai Eliyahu has written in a letter to Prime Minister Ehud Olmert.

Eliyahu ruled that there was absolutely no moral prohibition against the indiscriminate killing of civilians during a potential massive military offensive on Gaza aimed at stopping the rocket launchings.
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  #54  
Old 31 Mar 09, 00:02
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The very concept of "collective guilt" runs counter to principles of individualy liberty and personal responsibilty that are the foundation of American society. I am constantly dismayed at the number of Americans who don't grasp that critical concept.
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  #55  
Old 01 Apr 09, 12:43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GCoyote View Post
The very concept of "collective guilt" runs counter to principles of individualy liberty and personal responsibilty that are the foundation of American society. I am constantly dismayed at the number of Americans who don't grasp that critical concept.
That's the point right there, cultural differences.

Via the arab POV, collective guilt does exist (or its just easy to use aginst the big&small satans).
Thus if most gazans vote for Hamas knowingly they'll attack civilians, they are legit targets themselves.

Of course, that's the arab point of view, not ours.
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  #56  
Old 03 Apr 09, 15:59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Golani View Post
That's the point right there, cultural differences.

Via the arab POV, collective guilt does exist (or its just easy to use aginst the big&small satans).
Thus if most gazans vote for Hamas knowingly they'll attack civilians, they are legit targets themselves.

Of course, that's the arab point of view, not ours.
And what is the cutting off of electricity,water by Israel to Gaza? That isn't collective punishment? 2006,2007,2008 have all seen it not surprisingly coinciding with Hamas rule in Gaza. Would you like me to provide a list when Israel did so?
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  #57  
Old 03 Apr 09, 16:52
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Originally Posted by RaduRO View Post
And what is the cutting off of electricity,water by Israel to Gaza? That isn't collective punishment? 2006,2007,2008 have all seen it not surprisingly coinciding with Hamas rule in Gaza. Would you like me to provide a list when Israel did so?
The Palestinians in Gaza are not Israeli citizens and their welfare is not Israel's responsibility. If Hamas attacks Israel then Israel can cut off electricity. Gaza, a quasi-state should find other suppliers. If there are none then it should revise its policy towards Israel, in accordance with its economic dependence on Israel.

I don't think the same applies to water supplie if Gaza cannot sustain itself without those water supplies. But I don't remember Israel cutting off water supplies.
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  #58  
Old 03 Apr 09, 19:39
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The Palestinians in Gaza are not Israeli citizens and their welfare is not Israel's responsibility. If Hamas attacks Israel then Israel can cut off electricity. Gaza, a quasi-state should find other suppliers. If there are none then it should revise its policy towards Israel, in accordance with its economic dependence on Israel.

I don't think the same applies to water supplie if Gaza cannot sustain itself without those water supplies. But I don't remember Israel cutting off water supplies.
Do you know what "collective punishment" is? It doesn't refer to actions within a given nation.I'm afraid you completely misunderstood. Collective punishment is "kill em all let God sort em out".

Collective punishment is punishing all Palestinians for the actions of Hamas. Collective punishment is 9/11, it's Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

I,myself, strongly oppose this concept. Israel's govt,apparently does not, hence the blockade it imposed on Gaza almost continuously since 2007, though as early as 2006 (Hamas takes power) traffic began to be restricted.

Btw, to mess up Gaza's water (and sewage) system,one doesn't need to cut off water per se, but gas and electricity to power the pumps and the desalinization stations.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7545636.stm#fuel

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...-40-years.html

http://edition.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/me...ary/index.html

http://www.cohre.org/store/attachmen...L_4%5B1%5D.pdf

http://www.presstv.com/detail.aspx?i...onid=351020202

So just how is contributing to the misery of those people by cutting off all these basics NOT collective punishment?

Unless you agree with it that is,but then the argument is over.
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  #59  
Old 04 Apr 09, 06:58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RaduRO View Post
Do you know what "collective punishment" is? It doesn't refer to actions within a given nation.I'm afraid you completely misunderstood. Collective punishment is "kill em all let God sort em out".

Collective punishment is punishing all Palestinians for the actions of Hamas. Collective punishment is 9/11, it's Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

I,myself, strongly oppose this concept. Israel's govt,apparently does not, hence the blockade it imposed on Gaza almost continuously since 2007, though as early as 2006 (Hamas takes power) traffic began to be restricted.

Btw, to mess up Gaza's water (and sewage) system,one doesn't need to cut off water per se, but gas and electricity to power the pumps and the desalinization stations.

So just how is contributing to the misery of those people by cutting off all these basics NOT collective punishment?

Unless you agree with it that is,but then the argument is over.
1. In this age war inevitably amounts to collective punishment if one wants to nitpick. Whole countries or cities get blockaded, industry and infrastructure are ruined, there are collateral victims etc.

2. Not all Palestinians were punished for the actions of Hamas. From what I remember the Palestinians in the West Bank, the ones still under the PA leadership, did not suffer from similar actions.

3. If Gaza is so dependent on Israel, why doesn't the Hamas Gov refrain from attacking Israel? Israel is certainly not obliged to provide fuel, energy and goods to a quasi-state ruled by a Government whose armed groups/forces attack it.
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  #60  
Old 04 Apr 09, 09:27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RaduRO View Post
And what is the cutting off of electricity,water by Israel to Gaza? That isn't collective punishment? 2006,2007,2008 have all seen it not surprisingly coinciding with Hamas rule in Gaza. Would you like me to provide a list when Israel did so?
We don't owe Gaza anything, ever since they were given an autonomy.

The fact that we give them electricity, welfare and such, is a "favor".

They are not depended on us and could get that from any other country with emphasis on their good neighbour Egypt, only its better to take it from us, for three reasons.

1.Its free.
2.It comes of the Jews and not the Arabs.
3.You could always claim discrimination if you don't get it on time.
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