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Go Back   Armchair General and HistoryNet >> The Best Forums in History > Current Events > The Middle East > Gaza Conflicts

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Gaza Conflicts Discuss the series of conflicts between Israel and Gaza militants.

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  #16  
Old 19 Jan 09, 01:43
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Thanks Again Skoblin!

How d'ya do that? On second thought, better not clue me in. << L'oisivite est mere des vices ! >> ("Idle hands are the Devil's hands.")

Yes, long live Peace--and Quiet! Now I can get back to my World War readings (currently on the Jedburghs, just finishing Henri Barbuse's 1915 Notes from Le feu [Under Fire], plus got to get back to Fitzroy Maclean!)




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Originally Posted by skoblin View Post
There....embedded it for you, Laurent.....

For those who don't know French.....vive le cesse le feu = praise the cease-fire!
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  #17  
Old 19 Jan 09, 01:55
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Originally Posted by olivenstein View Post
How d'ya do that? On second thought, better not clue me in. << L'oisivite est mere des vices ! >> ("Idle hands are the Devil's hands.")

Yes, long live Peace--and Quiet! Now I can get back to my World War readings (currently on the Jedburghs, just finishing Henri Barbuse's 1915 Notes from Le feu [Under Fire], plus got to get back to Fitzroy Maclean!)
Henri Barbusse...now where do I know that name....I think Colin Wilson wrote about his work L'Enfer in the Outsider...
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  #18  
Old 19 Jan 09, 23:03
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World War I, French

Barbusse wrote other books and was very influential in using slang dialogue and passages which go beyond the naturalism of Zola (of whom Barbusse owes a debt for L'Enfer, his earliest success) or Maupassant. He is wrongly considered a lesser writer between the former two of the late 19th century, and later ones such as Louis-Ferdinand Celine, Jean Giraudoux, Antoine de Saint-Exupery, or Andre Malraux. He was a loyal radical socialist and and after WWI and unwavering communist who died in Moscow in '35.

But most of all, Le feu [Under Fire] was the first literary account of WWI before Storm[s] of Steel, All Quiet on the Western Front, or A Farewell to Arms--as he wrote it in late 1915 and when it came out in '16 it won the very prestigious Prix Goncourt.

Other recommended French WWI books are Les croix de bois (The Wooden Crosses also an outstanding Criterion Collection war film) by Roland Dorgeles, and later Pierre Drieu la Rochelle's collection of short stories La Comedie of Charleroi [The Comedy of Charleroi translated once in the early 1970s] where he recounts the first battle of Charleroi, fighting the Turks in the Dardenelles and the wearying expedition and Verdun (in 1916 and later with the Americans in 1918).

But this going off the topic of Gaza. Ah hell, it's over anyway...well, to tie in [Zionist] Jewish or Arab involvement in WWI would be pertinent as there was of course Laurence of Arabia and his Arab irregulars as well as Jabotinzky's Zion Mule Corps. Interestingly, mariata35 an Israeli on YouTube has a documentary talking about Lloyd George's miscalculation in trying to molify the Jews in Russia into choosing the Zionist option. As a historian explains, most of them Trotsky et al were internationalists and saw Zionism as a capitalist tool for the British and French imperialist powers taking over the Ottoman spoils (mariata35 also has Hebrew documentaries and Gaza operations untranslated unfortunately). There's the very assimilated English cavalryman Siegfried Sassoon's series as well as a German artilleryman's from an assimilated Jewish Frankfurt banking family's account called With the German Guns, I believe. Drieu talks about many Jews having fallen for an ungrateful IIIieme Republique ("Ils se sont donnes les juifs")

As for the Muslims and Arabs in particular, well there are the Turks of course of whom I have read little in their campaigns in Georgia, Kut, Palestine, the Balkans and of course the Dardanelles; the above-mentionned Hashemite Arabs with TE Laurence, and countless Tirailleurs algeriens or maroccains that Barbusse and Drieu mention.


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Henri Barbusse...now where do I know that name....I think Colin Wilson wrote about his work L'Enfer in the Outsider...
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  #19  
Old 22 Jan 09, 01:59
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Dear righteous Anglo Saxon New Zealander,

That was great when France beat the All Blacks!

Respectfully yours,

Operation satanique 1985
Dear Chosen One,

You think I'd be upset because a bunch of Polynesians get defeated by the French? Think again.

Respectfully yours,

Righteous Anglo-Saxon New Zealander.
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  #20  
Old 22 Jan 09, 03:20
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Ha, ha, ha, yeah we went a little too far there sinking the Rainbow Warrior, testing nuclear weapons for the Israelis in the South Pacific, and mocking the hacka. We the French aren't choirboys that's for sure. Wilkinson et co. beat France in the semis though.

A night before that game I was drinking with this Australian girl and she says: "Hey Froggy, so your team beat the kiwis."
"You seem happy."
"Yes, I would have been really angry if the All Blacks had won."
"Why?"
"Hate 'em. Not as much as the bloody Poms mind ya--hope you Froggies beat 'em, too, right."
"Well, there's Wilkinson. He's..."
"Ahhrrr! Aye mate, Jonny's a bloody faggot" [she apes his kicking stance]

Et cetera, et cetera. She's a good drinking buddy. Great hole in the wall, too: The Fringe in Kits.

Cheers, man,

Asterix
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  #21  
Old 30 Jan 09, 08:37
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A poll conducted in 2002 by the Jaffa Center for Strategic Studies of Tel Aviv University showed that 46% of Israeli Jews favor the forcible ethnic cleansing of the occupied territories. A proposal going into some detail on exactly how the forcible ethnic cleansing should take place can be read in part 4 of the following article:

http://www.freeman.org/m_online/jul02/shusteff.htm

Although the author of the above article is not a rabbi, he claims that forcible ethnic cleansing is "substantiated by the Torah" and quotes a rabbi who says "Eretz Yisrael is God's bedroom where He interacts with the Jews, His chosen people, and where others do not belong."

Last edited by JonathanPollard; 30 Jan 09 at 08:55..
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  #22  
Old 30 Jan 09, 09:27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by apteryx View Post
All civilians living in Gaza are collectively guilty for Kassam attacks on Sderot, former Sephardi chief rabbi Mordechai Eliyahu has written in a letter to Prime Minister Ehud Olmert.

Eliyahu ruled that there was absolutely no moral prohibition against the indiscriminate killing of civilians during a potential massive military offensive on Gaza aimed at stopping the rocket launchings.

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satelli...&refer=cnn.com
he is an idiot as they are not all collectively guilty......the current methodology of the IDF will suffice.

next.
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  #23  
Old 30 Jan 09, 13:40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JonathanPollard View Post
A poll conducted in 2002 by the Jaffa Center for Strategic Studies of Tel Aviv University showed that 46% of Israeli Jews favor the forcible ethnic cleansing of the occupied territories. A proposal going into some detail on exactly how the forcible ethnic cleansing should take place can be read in part 4 of the following article:

http://www.freeman.org/m_online/jul02/shusteff.htm

Although the author of the above article is not a rabbi, he claims that forcible ethnic cleansing is "substantiated by the Torah" and quotes a rabbi who says "Eretz Yisrael is God's bedroom where He interacts with the Jews, His chosen people, and where others do not belong."
link for tel aviv survery????

this article really calls for the "transfer of arabs" ??? what?!?!?

Last edited by GeneralTsoGood; 30 Jan 09 at 13:43..
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  #24  
Old 30 Jan 09, 20:20
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Originally Posted by GeneralTsoGood View Post
link for tel aviv survery????
The survey is mentioned in the 11th paragraph of the article I linked. That same article can also be found on the Gamla website:

http://gamla.org.il/english/article/2002/july/b1.htm

Quote:
this article really calls for the "transfer of arabs" ??? what?!?!?
"Transfer" is the euphamism many Israelis use for forcible ethnic cleansing.

Last edited by JonathanPollard; 30 Jan 09 at 20:26..
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  #25  
Old 30 Jan 09, 21:19
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Another fan of biased propaganda filled hate websites eh?
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  #26  
Old 31 Jan 09, 06:18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JonathanPollard View Post

"Transfer" is the euphamism many Israelis use for forcible ethnic cleansing.
You know, if I wasn't afraid that someone will adopt one of your silly inventions I'd probably be rolling on the floor laughing...

Transfer, used in a certin context in Hebrew simply means transferring the Palestinian into one of the neighboring Arab nations (Lebanon, Syria, Jordan or Egypt) which of-course loves them so much they would welcome them with open arms.

The idea is either to Transport the people themselves, or simply hand over the entire territory including everything on it to the said country.
Depends on who is using the definition.

Last edited by Golani; 31 Jan 09 at 06:21..
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  #27  
Old 31 Jan 09, 10:03
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Another fan of biased propaganda filled hate websites eh?
Those same poll results are also mentioned by Haaretz.

http://www.haaretz.co.il/hasen/pages...&itemNo=142930
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  #28  
Old 31 Jan 09, 10:07
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Originally Posted by Golani View Post
Transfer, used in a certin context in Hebrew simply means transferring the Palestinian into one of the neighboring Arab nations (Lebanon, Syria, Jordan or Egypt) which of-course loves them so much they would welcome them with open arms.

The idea is either to Transport the people themselves, or simply hand over the entire territory including everything on it to the said country.
Depends on who is using the definition.
The "Logistics of Transfer" article to which I linked earlier makes the statement "Needless to say, forceful resettlement will not be a pleasant spectacle." Sure sounds like forcible ethnic cleansing to me.

Although I'll admit that transfer can also mean resettlement without force or compulsion, which is why David Ben Gurion included the adjective "compulsory" to describe transfer in order to make himself perfectly clear.

"The compulsory transfer of the [Palestinian] Arabs from the valleys of the proposed Jewish state could give us something which we never had, even when we stood on our own during the days of the first and second Temples…We are given an opportunity which we never dared to dream of in our wildest imaginings. This is more than a state, government and sovereignty, this is national consolidation in a free homeland."

"With compulsory transfer we [would] have a vast area [for settlement]…I support compulsory transfer. I don't see anything immoral in it."

http://www.counterpunch.org/buch01062009.html
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  #29  
Old 31 Jan 09, 11:06
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I wouldn't recommend using Ha'aretz (or like I saw you do in a different thread-using Netory Karta Anti-Zionist Jews) to signify the 'Israeli opinion', they can sometimes get worse than the 'Palestine' newspaper.

Regardin 'transfer':
1. It's just a word, like any other, some use it in the right context and some abuse it.

2.Agin, I posted the way this word should be used in a right context TODAY, 60 years ago is a whole different ball game.

Nonetheless I see no hinting in what you quoted that Ben Gurion allegedly said towards massacring, he simply wanted to use the chaos raging in the country to clear the part of newly formed Israel of arabs thus maybe solving future problem before they start.

Last edited by Golani; 31 Jan 09 at 11:09..
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  #30  
Old 31 Jan 09, 11:20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JonathanPollard View Post
The survey is mentioned in the 11th paragraph of the article I linked. That same article can also be found on the Gamla website:

http://gamla.org.il/english/article/2002/july/b1.htm

"Transfer" is the euphamism many Israelis use for forcible ethnic cleansing.
Be serious. Hamas and the Islamic world want to kill all of the Jews and eliminate Israel. Allowing the Palestinians back into Gaza and the West Bank did not result in the peace that Israel was promised. Why would there not be a sentiment by some Israelis to throw the Palestinians out and let their "loving Muslim brothers" absorb them?
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