Flying Tank Questions

[judy]

Before I ask the questions, I should tell you that I know nothing of military history (but am finding it fascinating), but do have a background in science; These questions are for a book about inventors I'm writing called Thomas Edison's Concrete Piano, Great Inventors and Their Not-So-Great Inventions.

For the chapter Walter Christie's Flying Tank, I want to examine how Christie came up with the idea, ask whether it was really a bad idea, and see if how far the concept of a flying tank actually got. I'm willing to bet you forum members know a lot...

Specific things I'm wondering:

Why did the US army approach Christie in 1915 to make a 75 mm motorized gun? Did they approach lots of companies at that time?

From the pics - it looks like tank design hadn't evolved much then. Did Christie play a big role in modernizing the tank?

It looks like Christie's major contributions to tank invention were the convertible wheels/track and the amphibian tank. What am I missing?

And the kicker - was the flying tank a good idea or not? Why or why not?

(check out this pic - http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...AntonovA40.jpg) - it is a model of a Russian design that was apparently inspired by Christie's work.

Thanks to all who reply, for being kind and responding to a new recruit.

[Centrix Vigilis]

http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...k-history1.htm

http://www.battle-fleet.com/pw/his/T...0WW2%20WW1.htm


The only flying tank i known is the A10 but the AH64 comes close..... as did the MI24. Flying discs? Nuc space launched platforms, Nazi tech? It's all out there.

best of luck...nice to see ya here...take no prisoners and standby for an onslaught of info and good stuff from the lads who know tanks well.

[bass_man86]

Here is your flying tank here!

[judy]

SUPER links. thanks so much!

[Wedfactory]

Originally Posted by judy

Before I ask the questions, I should tell you that I know nothing of military history (but am finding it fascinating), but do have a background in science; These questions are for a book about inventors I'm writing called Thomas Edison's Concrete Piano, Great Inventors and Their Not-So-Great Inventions.

For the chapter Walter Christie's Flying Tank, I want to examine how Christie came up with the idea, ask whether it was really a bad idea, and see if how far the concept of a flying tank actually got. I'm willing to bet you forum members know a lot...

Specific things I'm wondering:

Why did the US army approach Christie in 1915 to make a 75 mm motorized gun? Did they approach lots of companies at that time?

From the pics - it looks like tank design hadn't evolved much then. Did Christie play a big role in modernizing the tank?

It looks like Christie's major contributions to tank invention were the convertible wheels/track and the amphibian tank. What am I missing?

And the kicker - was the flying tank a good idea or not? Why or why not?

(check out this pic - http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...AntonovA40.jpg) - it is a model of a Russian design that was apparently inspired by Christie's work.

Thanks to all who reply, for being kind and responding to a new recruit.

The pic from Wiki is real. the Russians did experiment with a "Gliding" Tank. It was found impractical for any use. the one flight made was made after everything that could be removed from the tank was. basicly it was and engine, hull and crew member, pilot/driver. It was determined to be to hard on the crew inside the tank, not to mention they now had to train tank drivers how to fly. (at the time the tank crews were not known for being the best and brightest) It was realized with the tank empty it was nearly deadly to the crew. if it had afull combat load it would have worked better and an asteroid than a gliding tank. So the whole idea was dropped. Today we drop small tanks into combat with parachutes and the follows separately.

[Achtung Baby]

The test model was unsafe, thus no more work was done.

[Mountain Man]

The Soviet experiment with a gliding light tank brought out the fact that the landing speed was fast enough to burn out the running gear on the roll-out.

What Christie most contributed to armored development was his independent suspension, which enabled his trial model, operating without it's tracks on it's "road wheels", to achieve cross-country speeds of up to 60 mph. Despite the superiority of his design, the American militrary was uninterested; however, the Soviets saw great possibilities, and his suspension was adopted as the running gear for the T-34.

[judy]

Sorry for my ignorance; what is "running gear on the roll-out"?

[Mountain Man]

running gear: tank suspension, tracks and road wheels.

roll-out: the distance an aircraft needs to slow down after touching down.

[DogDodger]

Actually, on the Soviet KT-40's only test flight, the vehicle successfully landed and returned to base under its own power. The factor that killed the KT-40 was that the Soviets didn't have a towing aircraft powerful enough to overcome the tank's drag. On the single test flight, the tank had to be cut loose prematurely to prevent the towing TB-3 from crashing.

Also, Christie's designs were not as good as history makes them out to be. The Soviets were ready to replace his suspension with torsion bars in their next medium tank had the Germans not interrupted their plans by invading.

[the_redstar_swl]

Originally Posted by Mountain Man

What Christie most contributed to armored development was his independent suspension, which enabled his trial model, operating without it's tracks on it's "road wheels", to achieve cross-country speeds of up to 60 mph. Despite the superiority of his design, the American militrary was uninterested; however, the Soviets saw great possibilities, and his suspension was adopted as the running gear for the T-34.

Then why don't we use it now?

IIRC the main reasons the Army didn't adopt it was that he was busily selling "Agricultural Tractors" to other countries, and that he wouldn't design the Army tanks that had turrets or armor thicker than 10mm.

[peter_sym]

The Christie suspension was good but had BIG problems... take the tank fast off a small cliff (I mean a 'cliff' a couple of feet high) and the impact would shatter the suspension. Torsion bar is better but also much harder to mass produce so its a bit of a trade off between a lot of good tanks and a handful of great ones. I think the soviets made the right choice on the T34.

When I served in armour in the mid-90's we heard some horror stories about the Russians fitting BMP's with parachutes and dropping them out of aircraft with the crew strapped in the vehicles ready to fight. The BMPs always landed far too hard and the crews suffered terrible spinal injuries. Clearly the idea of getting armour onto the battlefield by air persisted for a long time in the soviet union.

[BKnight3]

Originally Posted by peter_sym

The Christie suspension was good but had BIG problems... take the tank fast off a small cliff (I mean a 'cliff' a couple of feet high) and the impact would shatter the suspension. Torsion bar is better but also much harder to mass produce so its a bit of a trade off between a lot of good tanks and a handful of great ones. I think the soviets made the right choice on the T34.

When I served in armour in the mid-90's we heard some horror stories about the Russians fitting BMP's with parachutes and dropping them out of aircraft with the crew strapped in the vehicles ready to fight. The BMPs always landed far too hard and the crews suffered terrible spinal injuries. Clearly the idea of getting armour onto the battlefield by air persisted for a long time in the soviet union.

They learned, I think the BMD is still part of their airborne armament. Hell we used some airborne tanks for awhile, dropping the crew separate from the armor. Apparently they were used successfully once in combat, but I'm curious on how a large scale operation such as this would perform.

[JSMoss]

Originally Posted by peter_sym

When I served in armour in the mid-90's we heard some horror stories about the Russians fitting BMP's with parachutes and dropping them out of aircraft with the crew strapped in the vehicles ready to fight. The BMPs always landed far too hard and the crews suffered terrible spinal injuries. Clearly the idea of getting armour onto the battlefield by air persisted for a long time in the soviet union.

Reminds me of the experiments of airdropping the M551 Sheriden ( Known affectionately to those of us who served with them as the broken electric war machine). During the Vietnam era they install serveral gun emplacements at Fort Campbell by trying to air drop the M551's which embedded themselves up to their turret rings in the ground. Fortunately they were not so foolish as to put crews in them.

[Mountain Man]

Originally Posted by DogDodger

Actually, on the Soviet KT-40's only test flight, the vehicle successfully landed and returned to base under its own power. The factor that killed the KT-40 was that the Soviets didn't have a towing aircraft powerful enough to overcome the tank's drag. On the single test flight, the tank had to be cut loose prematurely to prevent the towing TB-3 from crashing.

Also, Christie's designs were not as good as history makes them out to be. The Soviets were ready to replace his suspension with torsion bars in their next medium tank had the Germans not interrupted their plans by invading.

True, but a whole lot better than anything America hads at the time. Word has it that Christie's designs were refused because of the infamous NIH DSyndrome - Not Invented Here.

IF the landing speed could be properly controlled and IF the ground was sufficiently smooth enough. If the speed were a little too high, or the ground a little too bumpy - extremely common occurences in combat ops, the lightly made running gear of the K-40 couldn't handle it, according to some Soviet reports. The tank commanders would not, after all, have been very good "glider" pilots" and no one would have prepped the landing zone beforehand.

What I always find interesting is that no one throughout WWII ever thought to try low level extractions. If you are seriously thinking about turning a tank into a glider...?