HistoryNet.com RSS
ArmchairGeneral.com RSS

HistoryNet.com Articles
America's Civil War
American History
Aviation History
Civil War Times
MHQ
Military History
Vietnam
Wild West
World War II

ACG Online
ACG Magazine
Stuff We Like
War College
History News
Tactics 101
Carlo D'Este
Books

ACG Gaming
Boardgames
PC Game Reviews

ACG Network
Contact Us
Our Newsletter
Meet Our Staff
Advertise With Us

Sites We Support
HistoryNet.com
StreamHistory.com
Once A Marine
The Art of Battle
Game Squad
Mil. History Podcast
Russian Army - WW2
Achtung Panzer!
Mil History Online

Go Back   Armchair General and HistoryNet >> The Best Forums in History > Current Events > The Middle East > Gaza Conflicts

Notices and Announcements

Gaza Conflicts Discuss the series of conflicts between Israel and Gaza militants.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 13 Jan 09, 13:26
Siberian HEAT's Avatar
Siberian HEAT Siberian HEAT is offline
Zombie Author
United_States
Distinguished Service Award ACG Ten Year Service Award ACG 5 Year Service Ribbon March Offensive 
Summer Campaign 100 Greatest Generals, 2008 Greatest Westerns Campaign Most Decisive Battle Campaign, 2008 
Greatest Spy Movies Campaign 
 
Real Name: Brian King
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Cheyenne Mountain
Posts: 8,455
Siberian HEAT is a jewel in the rough [500]
Siberian HEAT is a jewel in the rough [500] Siberian HEAT is a jewel in the rough [500] Siberian HEAT is a jewel in the rough [500] Siberian HEAT is a jewel in the rough [500] Siberian HEAT is a jewel in the rough [500] Siberian HEAT is a jewel in the rough [500] Siberian HEAT is a jewel in the rough [500] Siberian HEAT is a jewel in the rough [500] Siberian HEAT is a jewel in the rough [500] Siberian HEAT is a jewel in the rough [500]
Ralph Peters January 13 Update - Ground Ops

Ralph Peters sends us another exclusive on his views of the challenges and opportunities facing both sides at this point in the conflict.

http://www.armchairgeneral.com/groun...-and-boots.htm

Thanks for reading.

Brian
__________________
Our forefathers died to give us freedom, not free stuff.

I write books about zombies as E.E. Isherwood. Check me out at ZombieBooks.net.
Reply With Quote
Facebook Connect and Magazine Promotions

World War II Magazine
$26.95

Armchair General Magazine
$26.95
Military History Magazine
$26.95
  #2  
Old 13 Jan 09, 13:52
Double Deuce's Avatar
Double Deuce Double Deuce is offline
General
United_States
Distinguished Service Award ACG Ten Year Service Award ACG 5 Year Service Ribbon 
 
Real Name: Mike
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: The Cumberland Plateau
Posts: 4,255
Double Deuce has a spectacular aura about [400] Double Deuce has a spectacular aura about [400] Double Deuce has a spectacular aura about [400] Double Deuce has a spectacular aura about [400] Double Deuce has a spectacular aura about [400] Double Deuce has a spectacular aura about [400] Double Deuce has a spectacular aura about [400] Double Deuce has a spectacular aura about [400] Double Deuce has a spectacular aura about [400] Double Deuce has a spectacular aura about [400] Double Deuce has a spectacular aura about [400] Double Deuce has a spectacular aura about [400] Double Deuce has a spectacular aura about [400] Double Deuce has a spectacular aura about [400] Double Deuce has a spectacular aura about [400]
Good read. I have a feeling Israel is going to go farther than many expect no matter the casualties, as they fear being sold out by Obama. If Israel feels they are between a rock and a hard place they just may take a gamble and go for broke. Whats the worst that will happen, its not like the haters are capable of hating them any more than they already do. I mean once people start calling to "wipe Israel off the face of the earth", its kinda hard to top that.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 13 Jan 09, 14:03
Centrix Vigilis's Avatar
Centrix Vigilis Centrix Vigilis is offline
Banned
United_States
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Artesia-Roswell-Dulce NM
Posts: 8,153
Centrix Vigilis is a glorious beacon of light [700]
Centrix Vigilis is a glorious beacon of light [700] Centrix Vigilis is a glorious beacon of light [700] Centrix Vigilis is a glorious beacon of light [700] Centrix Vigilis is a glorious beacon of light [700] Centrix Vigilis is a glorious beacon of light [700] Centrix Vigilis is a glorious beacon of light [700] Centrix Vigilis is a glorious beacon of light [700] Centrix Vigilis is a glorious beacon of light [700] Centrix Vigilis is a glorious beacon of light [700] Centrix Vigilis is a glorious beacon of light [700] Centrix Vigilis is a glorious beacon of light [700] Centrix Vigilis is a glorious beacon of light [700] Centrix Vigilis is a glorious beacon of light [700] Centrix Vigilis is a glorious beacon of light [700]
One thing ya can say about ole Ralph....he aint no dummy.

Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 13 Jan 09, 14:14
allsirgarnet's Avatar
allsirgarnet allsirgarnet is offline
General
UK
Distinguished Service Award ACG 5 Year Service Ribbon 
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: London
Posts: 4,759
allsirgarnet is a glorious beacon of light [700]
allsirgarnet is a glorious beacon of light [700] allsirgarnet is a glorious beacon of light [700] allsirgarnet is a glorious beacon of light [700] allsirgarnet is a glorious beacon of light [700] allsirgarnet is a glorious beacon of light [700] allsirgarnet is a glorious beacon of light [700] allsirgarnet is a glorious beacon of light [700] allsirgarnet is a glorious beacon of light [700] allsirgarnet is a glorious beacon of light [700] allsirgarnet is a glorious beacon of light [700] allsirgarnet is a glorious beacon of light [700] allsirgarnet is a glorious beacon of light [700] allsirgarnet is a glorious beacon of light [700] allsirgarnet is a glorious beacon of light [700]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Siberian HEAT View Post
Ralph Peters sends us another exclusive on his views of the challenges and opportunities facing both sides at this point in the conflict.

http://www.armchairgeneral.com/groun...-and-boots.htm

Thanks for reading.

Brian
As of January 12th, three weeks into the conflict, only ten Israeli soldiers have fallen, while between six and eight hundred Hamas terrorists have been killed—exact figures are unavailable, due both to battlefield challenges and the propaganda effort by Hamas to claim that virtually every casualty is a civilian ... (dated 13th January)


Clarification...

http://dover.idf.il/IDF

IDF website has published no Hamas casualty figures (for at least a week, as so far researched) .


http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/Terrorism-...gainst+Israel/

Israeli Ministry of Foreign Affairs has published no Hamas casualty figures (for at least a week, as so far researched).


http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,479250,00.html

Palestinian hospital officials say more than 900 Palestinians, half of them civilians, have been killed.


http://www.israelinewsnow.com/

Palestinian hospital officials say more than 900 Palestinians, half of them civilians, have been killed. Several buildings were on fire, witnesses said, including a lumberyard.


Question...

while between six and eight hundred Hamas terrorists have been killed

Where are the sources or references for this figure, for none are supplied in the article, none have been published by Israeli government sources and both US and Israeli press and media have very different figures.

Are we to allow unreferenced, inaccurate and clearly biased articles to be posted on the website, merely because the writer is famous? Why are different standards applied between this writer and regular forum members?

Regards

Gaz
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 13 Jan 09, 14:16
Centrix Vigilis's Avatar
Centrix Vigilis Centrix Vigilis is offline
Banned
United_States
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Artesia-Roswell-Dulce NM
Posts: 8,153
Centrix Vigilis is a glorious beacon of light [700]
Centrix Vigilis is a glorious beacon of light [700] Centrix Vigilis is a glorious beacon of light [700] Centrix Vigilis is a glorious beacon of light [700] Centrix Vigilis is a glorious beacon of light [700] Centrix Vigilis is a glorious beacon of light [700] Centrix Vigilis is a glorious beacon of light [700] Centrix Vigilis is a glorious beacon of light [700] Centrix Vigilis is a glorious beacon of light [700] Centrix Vigilis is a glorious beacon of light [700] Centrix Vigilis is a glorious beacon of light [700] Centrix Vigilis is a glorious beacon of light [700] Centrix Vigilis is a glorious beacon of light [700] Centrix Vigilis is a glorious beacon of light [700] Centrix Vigilis is a glorious beacon of light [700]
ah but maybe will get lucky and those figures of Hamahaha terrorists are really tripled......i'll pray on it.

best on ya Gazman.

Cv
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 13 Jan 09, 14:19
allsirgarnet's Avatar
allsirgarnet allsirgarnet is offline
General
UK
Distinguished Service Award ACG 5 Year Service Ribbon 
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: London
Posts: 4,759
allsirgarnet is a glorious beacon of light [700]
allsirgarnet is a glorious beacon of light [700] allsirgarnet is a glorious beacon of light [700] allsirgarnet is a glorious beacon of light [700] allsirgarnet is a glorious beacon of light [700] allsirgarnet is a glorious beacon of light [700] allsirgarnet is a glorious beacon of light [700] allsirgarnet is a glorious beacon of light [700] allsirgarnet is a glorious beacon of light [700] allsirgarnet is a glorious beacon of light [700] allsirgarnet is a glorious beacon of light [700] allsirgarnet is a glorious beacon of light [700] allsirgarnet is a glorious beacon of light [700] allsirgarnet is a glorious beacon of light [700] allsirgarnet is a glorious beacon of light [700]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Centrix Vigilis View Post
ah but maybe will get lucky and those figures of Hamahaha terrorists are really tripled......i'll pray on it.

best on ya Gazman.

Cv
No problem with you wish for their deaths old mate!

My point is that us, the good guys don't need to resort to Hamas style propoganda. The Israeli's themselves don't, so why should we have it here?

Keep well mate.

Gaz
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 14 Jan 09, 16:08
GCoyote's Avatar
GCoyote GCoyote is offline
ACG Forums - canis administrationem
United_States
Distinguished Service Award ACG Ten Year Service Award ACG 5 Year Service Ribbon Greatest Westerns Campaign 
Greatest Spy Movies Campaign Greatest Blunders Campaign Best Pin-Up Of World War II Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign 
Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role Aircraft C 
 
Real Name: Gary C
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Laurel, MD, USA
Posts: 19,109
GCoyote has achieved enlightenment [1200+] GCoyote has achieved enlightenment [1200+] GCoyote has achieved enlightenment [1200+] GCoyote has achieved enlightenment [1200+] GCoyote has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
GCoyote has achieved enlightenment [1200+] GCoyote has achieved enlightenment [1200+] GCoyote has achieved enlightenment [1200+] GCoyote has achieved enlightenment [1200+] GCoyote has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Simplest Answer

He's Ralph Peters - Journalists who don't protect their souces, lose their souces. People who wouldn't give us the time of day actually return his phone calls.
__________________
Any metaphor will tear if stretched over too much reality.

Questions about our site? See the FAQ.

Last edited by GCoyote; 14 Jan 09 at 16:09.. Reason: "sourcses" is not a real word
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 16 Jan 09, 15:24
GKZHUKOV's Avatar
GKZHUKOV GKZHUKOV is offline
First Sergeant
United_States
ACG 5 Year Service Ribbon 
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Southern USA
Posts: 242
GKZHUKOV is on the path to success [1-99] GKZHUKOV is on the path to success [1-99] GKZHUKOV is on the path to success [1-99]
Double Deuce hit the bullseye. The anti- Israel meda including the soon to be out of business NY Slimes should not be allowed to rob Israel of victory. I say "screw" the media . IMO, few strong supporters of Israel would change their minds because of the anti-Israel BBC, AP etc. They know how biased the MSM is against Israel. Who really buys into this phony story line of the "brutal Israelis" deliberately killing civilians except those people, who want to believe it i.e. people who are already anti-Israel. Israel will never have peace until they "convince" the terrorists that Israel is here to stay. Notice how the alleged "winners" of the 2006 Lebanon War, want no part of this fight. I guess "winning" put a lot of fear into Hezbollah. This is Israel's chance. Once Hussain Obama is in office, I'm sure they will not have another opportunity like this.

Last edited by GKZHUKOV; 16 Jan 09 at 15:27..
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 16 Jan 09, 17:47
Blitzpuppy's Avatar
Blitzpuppy Blitzpuppy is offline
ACG Senior Online Editor
United_States
Distinguished Service Award ACG 5 Year Service Ribbon Greatest Westerns Campaign Greatest Spy Movies Campaign 
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Nashville, Tennessee
Posts: 225
Blitzpuppy is on the path to success [1-99] Blitzpuppy is on the path to success [1-99] Blitzpuppy is on the path to success [1-99]
What Ralph Peters is writing in these pieces is an analysis of an ongoing situation rather than a historical one; in such cases, any casualty figures are often suspect. Consider that in the first land battle of America's Civil War (Philippi, in what is now West Virginia), both sides claimed to have killed a number of the enemy in their reports. In reality, there were no fatalities on either side. However, I put the question about sources to Ralph Peter , and he was good enough to send the following response:

During an ongoing operation, as opposed to examining a historical
case, there's going to be some "Kentucky windage" involved. Even the
estimates I've gotten from back-channel sources in Israel aren't to be
trusted completely. As an intel officer, it was my job to sort out
this kind of stuff--usually I got it approximately right--but not
always. *When the rounds are still flying, you just do the best you
can as you seek to penetrate the fog of war.

The casualty figures are based on a combination of field estimates by the IDF and my own analysis, based on my background. Of course, Hamas and the UN claim that the dead are mostly civilians--simply not so, although many civilians inevitably have been killed. There are NO reliable casualty breakdown figures on the Hamas/Palestinian side at present (the sources in Gaza lie wildly). *Thje only general agreement is that over a thousand Palestinians of various sort have died. *Today, I saw a figure, sourced from inside Gaza, that over 390 children had been
killed. That defies logic, of course. But propaganda is Hamas's
number one weapon.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 16 Jan 09, 19:36
allsirgarnet's Avatar
allsirgarnet allsirgarnet is offline
General
UK
Distinguished Service Award ACG 5 Year Service Ribbon 
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: London
Posts: 4,759
allsirgarnet is a glorious beacon of light [700]
allsirgarnet is a glorious beacon of light [700] allsirgarnet is a glorious beacon of light [700] allsirgarnet is a glorious beacon of light [700] allsirgarnet is a glorious beacon of light [700] allsirgarnet is a glorious beacon of light [700] allsirgarnet is a glorious beacon of light [700] allsirgarnet is a glorious beacon of light [700] allsirgarnet is a glorious beacon of light [700] allsirgarnet is a glorious beacon of light [700] allsirgarnet is a glorious beacon of light [700] allsirgarnet is a glorious beacon of light [700] allsirgarnet is a glorious beacon of light [700] allsirgarnet is a glorious beacon of light [700] allsirgarnet is a glorious beacon of light [700]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blitzpuppy View Post
What Ralph Peters is writing in these pieces is an analysis of an ongoing situation rather than a historical one; in such cases, any casualty figures are often suspect. Consider that in the first land battle of America's Civil War (Philippi, in what is now West Virginia), both sides claimed to have killed a number of the enemy in their reports. In reality, there were no fatalities on either side. However, I put the question about sources to Ralph Peter , and he was good enough to send the following response:

During an ongoing operation, as opposed to examining a historical
case, there's going to be some "Kentucky windage" involved. Even the
estimates I've gotten from back-channel sources in Israel aren't to be
trusted completely. As an intel officer, it was my job to sort out
this kind of stuff--usually I got it approximately right--but not
always. *When the rounds are still flying, you just do the best you
can as you seek to penetrate the fog of war.

The casualty figures are based on a combination of field estimates by the IDF and my own analysis, based on my background. Of course, Hamas and the UN claim that the dead are mostly civilians--simply not so, although many civilians inevitably have been killed. There are NO reliable casualty breakdown figures on the Hamas/Palestinian side at present (the sources in Gaza lie wildly). *Thje only general agreement is that over a thousand Palestinians of various sort have died. *Today, I saw a figure, sourced from inside Gaza, that over 390 children had been
killed. That defies logic, of course. But propaganda is Hamas's
number one weapon.
BP...

Thanks for the reply.

With regard to the make up of the casualty lists, I have no particular axe to grind except that we at ACG stick as near to the truth as possible.

There is one point I will mention though if I may.

Above there is some question on the that over 390 children had been
killed.
and at first glance this is understandable. Yet if you care to look at the CIA figures for Gaza demographics i've posted in a thread in this forum, you'll see that almost two tears ago, virtually half the pouplation in Gaza was aged under 14. Moreover, if you look at the statistics of female reproduction, it promotes a rate of 6 children per female, though of course not every woman will have 6 children. Now given both the above statistics, its likely that the younger proportion of the population in Gaza will keep expanding in relation to the others, at least in the near future.

Now lets go with the current estimate that between 1100 and 1300 Palestinians have been killed in Gaza. Then give a generous allocation of 60% as Hamas fighters. This still leaves 480 dead civilians. Now if you class 'children' as aged 16 and under, and apply it to the demographics of the population (assuming the dead are equally divided) you get 240 dead aged under 14 and a variable number aged 15-16 to add in, so lets call that 25, This means a total of (statistically) 265 dead children.

Take this figure of 265 dead and now factor in situations like who might be more likely to be killed, through lack of knowledge about the situation, or who's more likely to panic, or even more likely to just be on the streets when the fighting starts. If you consider these factors in other areas of urban warfare, young persons are more likely to be involved than older. This means that the statistical figure of 265 dead aged under 16 is if anything too low, simply because experience and history shows children are more likely to become casualties (note the aged population in Gaza is very small).

So lets adjust (because of the above) the 50% casualties for children upto say 60%, to keep in line of the likelyhood of injury. So thats 288 aged under 14 and roughly 30 aged 15-16. This gives a figure of 318 dead aged 16 and under, and we've been very conservative in our estimates. Now compare our 318 with the Gaza sourse of 390. Then consider if the Gaza figure rates persons under 18 as children. If it does, then the statistical figure rises and, given the scenes of young persons pictured and filmed in and around the Hamas gunmen, the likelyhood of casualties also goes up. Yes I appreciate a lot of this is just theory, but then so are all the other casualty estimates.

Whats certain statistically is that taking a fair and unbiased take on the total figure, then matching it against the CIA figures, and then matching it of the likelyhood of casualties depending on age, a figure of around 320 dead children (16 and under) is reasonably accurate. Lets be honest and say that sources in Gaza may well be biased towards Hamas, but in this case their statement of 390 dead children could well be near the truth.

Does the figure now defy logic, given that well over half the population in Gaza is aged 16 and under?

Thanks and Regards

Gaz

Last edited by allsirgarnet; 16 Jan 09 at 20:01..
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links

  #11  
Old 16 Jan 09, 22:51
Paul Mann III's Avatar
Paul Mann III Paul Mann III is offline
General of the Forums
Pirate
ACG Ten Year Service Award ACG 5 Year Service Ribbon Summer Campaign 100 Greatest Generals, 2008 
Most Decisive Battle Campaign, 2008 Greatest Westerns Campaign Greatest Spy Movies Campaign Greatest Blunders Campaign 
Best Pin-Up Of World War II Most Significant/Influential Fighter Campaign SPQR Campaign 
 
Real Name: Charley Skedaddle
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: On the Group "W" Bench
Posts: 12,342
Paul Mann III has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Paul Mann III has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Paul Mann III has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Paul Mann III has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Paul Mann III has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Paul Mann III has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Paul Mann III has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Paul Mann III has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Paul Mann III has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Paul Mann III has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Paul Mann III has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Paul Mann III has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Paul Mann III has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Paul Mann III has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Paul Mann III has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Paul Mann III has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Quote:
Originally Posted by allsirgarnet View Post

Are we to allow unreferenced, inaccurate and clearly biased articles to be posted on the website, merely because the writer is famous? Why are different standards applied between this writer and regular forum members?
That writer is with Armchair General Magazine. I doubt his article is here "merely because the writer is famous."

Why wouldn't they want to post his work on Armchair General's websites?

__________________
"This life..., you know, "the life." You’re not gonna get any medals, kid. This is not a hero business; you don’t shoot people from a mile a way. You gotta stand right next to them... blow their heads off."

BoRG
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 17 Jan 09, 03:36
allsirgarnet's Avatar
allsirgarnet allsirgarnet is offline
General
UK
Distinguished Service Award ACG 5 Year Service Ribbon 
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: London
Posts: 4,759
allsirgarnet is a glorious beacon of light [700]
allsirgarnet is a glorious beacon of light [700] allsirgarnet is a glorious beacon of light [700] allsirgarnet is a glorious beacon of light [700] allsirgarnet is a glorious beacon of light [700] allsirgarnet is a glorious beacon of light [700] allsirgarnet is a glorious beacon of light [700] allsirgarnet is a glorious beacon of light [700] allsirgarnet is a glorious beacon of light [700] allsirgarnet is a glorious beacon of light [700] allsirgarnet is a glorious beacon of light [700] allsirgarnet is a glorious beacon of light [700] allsirgarnet is a glorious beacon of light [700] allsirgarnet is a glorious beacon of light [700] allsirgarnet is a glorious beacon of light [700]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Mann III View Post
That writer is with Armchair General Magazine. I doubt his article is here "merely because the writer is famous."

Why wouldn't they want to post his work on Armchair General's websites?

Although he's both featured in ACG Magazine and a well established writer, it doesn't excuse careless writing. I quote...

between six and eight hundred Hamas terrorists have been killed—exact figures are unavailable, due both to battlefield challenges and the propaganda effort by Hamas to claim that virtually every casualty is a civilian

... because no reference or explanation is given for the casualty figures quoted in the original piece. Mr Peters has stated in his reply that the figures are are actually based on a combination of field estimates by the IDF and my own analysis, based on my background and so in reality they are virtually educated guesses. If thats the case and given the wild claims being thrown around about casualties (especially by Hamas), I feel it would be more sensible not to give unsubstantiated casualty estimates.

Theres also the problem of the disparity of casualties between Hamas and the IDF. Now I readily acknowledge the skill and courage of the Israel forces, but if we accept Mr Peters figures it gives a kill ratio of seventy to one in favour of the IDF. Now given the nature of the fighting in Gaza itself, which has been both intense and often Urban based, what precidents in modern warfare/anti terrorist history support an estimated kill ratio of 70-1? From memory I can recall no such a statistic in any modern conflict, which is based around anti insurgent/terrorist operations in an urban environment.

If you would require a point to my replies its this. That given the problems of gaining accurate casualty figures, and of the sensativity in certain areas regarding civilian casualties, and also the disinformation that Hamas promotes, informed and reasoned commentry from our side of the debate has to be based on more than informed guesswork. Also, with regard to the disparity of the casualties on either side, historical precidents should be given to back up any suppositions made in creating the casualty estimates.

When dealing with an information and propoganda war against an unscrupulous enemy such as Hamas, we have to be above reproach with regard to our own commentary and information.

Regards

Gaz
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 17 Jan 09, 04:03
Captain General's Avatar
Captain General Captain General is offline
General
United_States
ACG 5 Year Service Ribbon Greatest Westerns Campaign Best Pin-Up Of World War II SPQR Campaign 
 
Real Name: Chuck
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Pittsburg, Kansas
Posts: 5,256
Captain General gives and gets respect [800]
Captain General gives and gets respect [800] Captain General gives and gets respect [800] Captain General gives and gets respect [800] Captain General gives and gets respect [800] Captain General gives and gets respect [800] Captain General gives and gets respect [800] Captain General gives and gets respect [800] Captain General gives and gets respect [800] Captain General gives and gets respect [800] Captain General gives and gets respect [800] Captain General gives and gets respect [800] Captain General gives and gets respect [800] Captain General gives and gets respect [800] Captain General gives and gets respect [800] Captain General gives and gets respect [800]
I just hope Israel has the guts to finish Hamas off.
__________________
"The blade itself incites to deeds of violence".

Homer


BoRG
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 17 Jan 09, 05:26
Granatiere's Avatar
Granatiere Granatiere is offline
Major
Italy
ACG 5 Year Service Ribbon Most Decisive Battle Campaign, 2008 Greatest Spy Movies Campaign Greatest Blunders Campaign 
 
Real Name: Andrea Santangelo
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Rimini
Posts: 987
Granatiere is walking in the light [200] Granatiere is walking in the light [200] Granatiere is walking in the light [200] Granatiere is walking in the light [200] Granatiere is walking in the light [200] Granatiere is walking in the light [200] Granatiere is walking in the light [200] Granatiere is walking in the light [200] Granatiere is walking in the light [200] Granatiere is walking in the light [200] Granatiere is walking in the light [200]
It's hard to say, but I agree.
__________________
A ME LE GUARDIE
"Di noi tremò la nostra vecchia gloria. Tre secoli di fede e una vittoria". Gabriele D'Annunzio
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 17 Jan 09, 11:34
GCoyote's Avatar
GCoyote GCoyote is offline
ACG Forums - canis administrationem
United_States
Distinguished Service Award ACG Ten Year Service Award ACG 5 Year Service Ribbon Greatest Westerns Campaign 
Greatest Spy Movies Campaign Greatest Blunders Campaign Best Pin-Up Of World War II Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign 
Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role Aircraft C 
 
Real Name: Gary C
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Laurel, MD, USA
Posts: 19,109
GCoyote has achieved enlightenment [1200+] GCoyote has achieved enlightenment [1200+] GCoyote has achieved enlightenment [1200+] GCoyote has achieved enlightenment [1200+] GCoyote has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
GCoyote has achieved enlightenment [1200+] GCoyote has achieved enlightenment [1200+] GCoyote has achieved enlightenment [1200+] GCoyote has achieved enlightenment [1200+] GCoyote has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Cool This is a raid.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain General View Post
I just hope Israel has the guts to finish Hamas off.
The IDF is well aware that this is just another round in the cycle. They aren't trying to kill every last Hamas gunman because they know they'll never locate them all. When the going gets too tough or the Hamas leadership decides there are no more political points left to score, they will tell their people to hide the weapons and blend in until the IDF leaves.

Or if the IDF goes through all of the likely hiding places for rockets, finishes blowing up the tunnels, and rounds up the last of the usual suspects and otherwise checks off its 'to do' list, it will pull out.

And then everyone will reset for the next round.

Ignore the overheated rhetoric. Despite what some of the more bloodthirsty members of the forum may think:
  • The current generation of Israelis is not morally capable of genocide.
  • The current generation of Palestinians is not militarily capable of genocide.
  • Neither side will give up claim to sole ownership of the land.
Until one of those three items changes, that there will be 'another round' is a foregone conclusion.
__________________
Any metaphor will tear if stretched over too much reality.

Questions about our site? See the FAQ.

Last edited by GCoyote; 17 Jan 09 at 11:41..
Reply With Quote
Reply

Please bookmark this thread if you enjoyed it!


Thread Tools
Display Modes



Forum Jump

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 13:01.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.