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Go Back   Armchair General and HistoryNet >> The Best Forums in History > Historical Events & Eras > American Age of Discovery, Colonization, Revolution, & Expansion > American Revolution

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American Revolution 1763-1789 The birth of a new nation - to commence at the Proclaimation of 1763 to the end of the Articles of Confederation.

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  #46  
Old 13 Jan 09, 12:48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Intranetusa View Post
I don't think it was that much of cultural issue. Earlier dynasties such as the Han, Tang, Song, Yuan, etc had no problem mixing cultures with other civilizations and exchanging goods. ie. Han respected the Romans/Parthians/etc, Tang respected the Sogdians/Persians/etc and never considered them to be barbarians.

Much of the attitude of the latter Chinese Dynasties can probably be attributed to the fact that the "west" didn't have decent trade goods they wanted.
Very true, although I am not sure that it was a question of low quality. I know that China restricted the importation of western trade goods, even when these trade goods would have been desireable, such as cotton from India. What you are referring to do was the situation that brought about conflict between the Chinese and the British in particular, and eventually lead to the Opium War. China refused to import any British goods and demaded payment in sterling silver for all exports. The only BBritish good that it was willing to pay hard cash for was opium, and when it trade to ban the importation of the one item that they were willing to pay cash for, the Brits went to war with China.
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  #47  
Old 13 Jan 09, 19:04
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bass_man86 View Post
What you are referring to do was the situation that brought about conflict between the Chinese and the British in particular, and eventually lead to the Opium War. China refused to import any British goods and demaded payment in sterling silver for all exports. The only BBritish good that it was willing to pay hard cash for was opium, and when it trade to ban the importation of the one item that they were willing to pay cash for, the Brits went to war with China.
Yes, although I think it was a combined effect of low Chinese demand for British goods + Qing taxes and tariffs

As for opium, well technically it was already banned - the Brits were just smuggling it into the country. The war started after the Qing government confiscated and destroyed a hefty amount of opium from British traders.

importing 2 million pounds of opium annually isn't healthy. =/

The bad decisions by the Qing government continuously screwed them over.
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  #48  
Old 15 Feb 09, 11:39
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well who discover the americas were the portugueses .

1472 - João Vaz Corte-Real and Álvaro Martins Homem
reach newfoundland ( Terra Nova )( north america ) .

(Today is considered the first european
that arrived to the american coast
at least 20 years before columbus )

Portuguese school childrens are still taught
that their nation’s ships plowed the ocean blue
to America ahead of Columbus

( In 1474, he was granted lands on
Terceira Island on the Azores because
he had discovered Terra Nova do Bacalhau
( New Land of the Codfish ) .



Portuguese explorers :

_Afonso Gonçalves Baldaia (15th century explorer of the African coast)

_Álvaro Caminha (15th century explorer of the Atlantic islands)

_Álvaro Martins (15th century explorer of the African coast)

_Alvise Cadamosto (15th century explorer of the Atlantic islands and of the African coast)

_André Gonçalves (15th century explorer of the sea route to Brazil)

_Antão Gonçalves (15th century explorer of the African coast)

_António Fernandes (15th century explorer of the African coast)

_Bartolomeu Dias (15th century explorer of the African coast)

_Bartolomeu Perestrelo (15th century explorer of the Atlantic islands)

_Dinis Dias (15th century explorer of the African coast)

_Diogo Afonso (15th century explorer of the Atlantic islands and of the African coast)

_Diogo Cão (15th century explorer of the African coast)

_Diogo de Azambuja (15th century explorer of the African coast)

_Diogo de Teive (15th century explorer of the Atlantic islands)

_Diogo Dias (15th century explorer of the Atlantic islands, of the African coast and the Indian Ocean, discovered Madagascar)

_Diogo Silves (15th century explorer of the Atlantic islands)

_Duarte Pacheco Pereira (15th century explorer of the Atlantic)

_Fernão do Pó (15th century explorer of the African coast)

_Gil Eanes (15th century explorer of the African coast)

_Gonçalo Velho (15th century explorer of the Atlantic islands)

_João de Santarém (15th century explorer of the Atlantic islands)

_João Gonçalves Zarco (15th century explorer of the Atlantic islands)

_João Grego (15th century explorer of the African coast)

_João Cartveli (15th century explorer of the African coast)

_João Infante (15th century explorer of the African coast)

_João Vaz Corte-Real (15th century explorer of North America)

_Lopes Gonçalves (15th century explorer of the Atlantic)

_Luís Pires (15th century explorer of the sea route to Brazil)

_Nicolau Coelho (15th century explorer of the sea route to Brazil)

_Nuno Tristão (15th century explorer of the African coast)

_Paulo da Gama (15th century explorer of the sea route to India)

_Pedro Álvares Cabral (discoverer of Brazil in 1500)

_Pedro Escobar (15th century explorer of the Atlantic islands)

_Pêro de Alenquer (15th century explorer of the African coast)

_Pêro de Sintra (15th century explorer of the African coast)

_Pêro Dias (15th century explorer of the African coast)

_Pêro Vaz de Caminha (15th century explorer of the sea route to Brazil)

_Tristão Vaz Teixeira (15th century explorer of the Atlantic islands)

_Vasco da Gama (Lead the discovery of the sea route to India in 1498

_Afonso de Paiva (15th century/16th century diplomat and explorer in Ethiopia)

_Fernão de Noronha (15th century/16th century explorer of the Atlantic)

_Gaspar de Lemos (15th century/16th century explorer of the Atlantic and of the sea route to Brazil)

_Gonçalo Coelho (15th century/16th century explorer of the South American coast)

_João Fernandes Lavrador (15th century/16th century explorer of North America)

_Pero da Covilhã (15th century/16th century diplomat and explorer in Ethiopia and India)

_Pêro de Barcelos (15th century/16th century explorer of North America)


_Afonso de Albuquerque (16th century naval admiral and viceroy of India)

_António da Mota (16th century among the first to reach Japan)

_Antonio de Abreu (16th century explorer of Indonesia)

_António Peixoto (16th century among the first to reach Japan)

_Bento de Góis (16th century explorer)

_Cristóvão Borralho (16th century among the first to reach Japan)

_Cristóvão de Mendonça (16th century, some have claimed he discovered Australia - highly disputed)

_Diogo Lopes de Sequeira (16th century explorer of the Indian Ocean)

_Diogo Rodrigues (16th century explorer of the Indian Ocean)

_Diogo Zeimoto (16th century among the first to reach Japan)

_Duarte Fernandes (16th century diplomat in Thailand)

_Estevão da Gama (16th century explorer of the Indian Ocean)

_Fernão de Magalhães (Ferdinand Magellan) (16th century Led the first successful attempt to circumnavigate the Earth (1519-1522). Explorer of the Pacific Ocean).

_Fernão Lopez (16th century soldier in India and first resident of the island of Saint Helena)

_Fernão Mendes Pinto (16th century among the first to reach Japan)

_Fernão Pires de Andrade (16th century merchant in China)

_Francisco Álvares (16th century missionary and explorer in Ethiopia)

_Francisco de Almeida (16th century explorer and viceroy of India)

_Gaspar Corte-Real (16th century explorer of North America)

-Gomes de Sequeira (16th century, some have claimed he discovered Australia - highly disputed)

_João da Nova (16th century explorer of the Atlantic and of the Indian Ocean)

_Jorge Álvares (16th century the first to reach China)

_João Rodrigues Cabrilho (16th century discoverer of California)

_Lourenço Marques (16th century trader and explorer in East Africa)

_Martim Afonso de Sousa (16th century explorer and soldier in India)

_Miguel Corte-Real (16th century explorer of North America)

_Paulo Dias de Novais (16th century colonizer of Africa)

_Pedro Mascarenhas (16th century explorer of the Indian Ocean)

_Tristão da Cunha (16th century naval general and discoverer)


_Baltazar Fernandes (17th century explorer of Brazil's interior)

_David Melgueiro (17th century explorer of the Arctic)

_Jeronimo Lobo (17th century missionary and explorer of Ethiopia)

_Luis Váez de Torres (16th century/17th century explorer of south-west Pacific)

_Pedro Fernandes de Queiroz (16th century/17th century explorer of south-west Pacific, some have claimed he discovered Australia)

_Pedro Teixeira (17th century explorer of the Amazon River)

_Raposo Tavares (17th century bandeirante)

_Hermenegildo Capelo (19th century explorer of Africa)

_Roberto Ivens (19th century explorer of Africa)
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  #49  
Old 15 Feb 09, 12:27
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Chronology of the Portuguese Voyages of Discovery :


1147—Voyage of the Adventurers . Soon before the siege of Lisbon by the crusaders, a Muslim expedition left in search of legendary Islands offshore. They were not heard of again

1336—First expedition to the Canary Islands. Another 2 in 1340 and 1341.

1412—Price Henry, the Navigator, orders the first expeditions to the African Coast and Canary Islands.

1419—João Gonçalves Zarco and Tristão Vaz Teixeira discovered Porto Santo island, in the Madeira group.

1420—The same sailors and Bartolomeu Perestrelo discovered the island of Madeira, which at once began to be colonized.

1422—Cape Não, the limit of Moorish navigation is passed as the African Coast is mapped.

1427—Diogo de Silves discovered the Azores, which was colonized in 1431 by Gonçalo Velho Cabral.

1434—Gil Eanes sailed round Cape Bojador, thus destroying the legends of the ‘Dark Sea’.

1434—the 32 point compass-card replaces the 12 points used until then.

1435—Gil Eanes and Afonso Gonçalves Baldaia discovered Garnet Bay (Angra dos Ruivos) and the latter reached the Gold River (Rio de Ouro).

1441—Nuno Tristão reached Cape White.

1443—Nuno Tristão penetrated the Arguim Gulf.

1444—Dinis Dias reached Cape Green (Cabo Verde).

1445—Alvaro Fernandes sailed beyond Cabo Verde and reached Cabo dos Mastros (Cape Red)

I446—Alvaro Fernandes reached the northern Part of Portuguese Guinea

1452—Diogo de Teive discovers the Islands of Flores and Corvo.

1458—Luis Cadamosto discovers the first Cape Verde Islands.

1460—Death of Prince Henry, the Navigator. His systematic maping of the Atlantic,reached 8º N on the African Coast and 40º W in the Atlantic (Sargasso Sea) in his lifetime.

1461—Diogo Gomes and António Noli discovered more of the Cape Verde Islands.

1461—Diogo Afonso discovered the western islands of the Cabo Verde group.

1471—João de Santarém and Pedro Escobar crossed the Equator. So the southern hemisphere was discovered and the sailors began to be guided by a new constellation, the Southern Cross. The discovery of the islands of São Tome and Principe is also attributed to these same sailors.

1472—Corte Real and Alvaro Martins Homem reached the Land of Cod, now called Newfoundland.

1475—Colombus (Critovão Colombos) arrives in Portugal.

1476—João Coelho visits the West Indies. It seems one of the sailors aboard was called Critovão Colombos.

1482—Diogo Cão reached the estuary of the Zaire (Congo) and placed a landmark there. Explored 150kms upriver to the Ielala Falls.

1484—Diogo Cão reached Walvis Bay, south of Namibia.

1487—Afonso de Paiva and Pero da Covilhã traveled overland from Lisbon in search of the Kingdom of Prester John. (Ethiopia)

1488—Bartolomeu Dias, crowning 50 years of effort and methodical expeditions, rounded the Cape of Good Hope and entered the Indian Ocean. They had found the "Flat Mountain" of Ptolomeu's Geography.

1489/92 — South Atlantic Voyages to map the winds

1490 — Colombus leaves for Spain after his father-in-law's death.

1492—First exploration of the Indian Ocean.

1492—Christopher Columbus, reaches the West Indies, thinking to be somewhere in Asia.

1494—The Treaty of Tordesilles (46º 37' W), the pope divided the world into two parts, between Portugal and Spain.

1495—Voyage of Joao Fernandes, the Farmer, and Pedro Barcelos to Greenland. During their voyage they discovered the land to which they gave the name of Labrador (lavrador, farmer)

1494—First boats fitted with cannon doors and topsails.

1498—Vasco da Gama led the first fleet around Africa to India, arriving in Calicut.

1498—Duarte Pacheco Pereira explores the South Atlantic and the South American Coast North of the Amazon river

1500—Pedro Álvares Cabral discovered Brazil on his way to India.

1500—Gaspar Corte Real made his first voyage to Newfoundland, formerly known as Terras de Corte Real.

1502—Miguel Corte Real set out for New England in search of his brother, Gaspar. João da Nova discovered Ascension Island. Fernão de Noronha discovered the island which still bears his name.

1503—On his return from the East, Estevão da Gama discovered Santa Helena island.

1506—Tristão da Cunha discovered the island that bears his name. Portuguese sailors landed on Madagascar.

1509—The Gulf of Bengal crossed by Diogo Lopes Sequeira. On the crossing he also reached Malacca.

1512—António de Abreu discovered Timor island.

1513—The first trading ship to touch the coasts of China, under Jorge Álvares.

1519-1522—Voyage round the world by the Portuguese sailor Fernão de Magalhães, then in the service of Spain. During the voyage the passage linking the Atlantic to the Pacific was discovered (Strait of Magellan).

1522—Australia is discovered by Cristovão de Mendonça (1522) and Gomes de Sequeira (1525).

1526—Discovery of New Guinea.

1541—Fernão Mendes Pinto, Diogo Zeimoto and Cristovão Borralho reached Japan.

1542—The coast of California explored by João Rodrigues Cabrilho.

1557—Macau (Macao) given to Portugal by the Emperor of China as a reward for services rendered against the pirates who infested the China Sea.

1595—Pedro Fernandes Queiroz, then in the service of Spain, discovered the Marquise Islands.

1660—Voyage of David Melgueiro, in the service of Holland, from Japan to Portugal via the Arctic Ocean.
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  #50  
Old 05 Jul 16, 15:49
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Expert in Chinese Petroglyphs Supports Theory Ancient Chinese Made It to America
EXCERPT/QUOTE:

Petroglyphs found across North America have suggested that ancient Chinese explorers made contact with Native Americans. Yaoliang Song, a professor at the East China Normal University in Shanghai who has studied petroglyphs as a visiting scholar at Harvard University, recently announced that he supports the interpretation that the petroglyphs are of ancient Chinese origin.

John A. Ruskamp Jr., Ed.D., has led the research on the petroglyphs over the past few years, enlisting the help of experts such as David N. Keightley, Ph.D., who is considered by many to be the leading analyst in America of early Chinese oracle-bone writings.

Keightley has, for example, said the script of a petroglyph Ruskamp found on a private ranch in Arizona matches Chinese oracle-bone writings from the Shang Dynasty (ca. 1600 to 1050 B.C.). Keightley translated the message written on the rock in Arizona: “Set apart (for) 10 years together; declaring (to) return, (the) journey completed, (to the) house of the Sun; (the) journey completed together.”
...
http://www.theepochtimes.com/n3/2104...it-to-america/

This looks to predate the following, or else they were using the older writing style;
1421: The Year China Discovered the World,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gavin_Menzies
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  #51  
Old 10 Jul 16, 20:19
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Given the general west to east movement of North Pacific currents, it is always possible that the occasional Chinese merchant or fishing vessel got blown of course and its survivors ended up in North America. But that does not equal a discovery "by" China. Cristobal Colon did not end up in America by accident. He was the leader of an organized discovery expedition. SO the Chinese merely join the Vikings if this pans out. Got here, but nothing resulted from it, save obscure archaeological evidence. Interesting yes, world shaking no.
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  #52  
Old 10 Jul 16, 20:24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lirelou View Post
Given the general west to east movement of North Pacific currents, it is always possible that the occasional Chinese merchant or fishing vessel got blown of course and its survivors ended up in North America. But that does not equal a discovery "by" China. Cristobal Colon did not end up in America by accident. He was the leader of an organized discovery expedition. SO the Chinese merely join the Vikings if this pans out. Got here, but nothing resulted from it, save obscure archaeological evidence. Interesting yes, world shaking no.
Agreed. "Discovery followed by nada is just a flash in the pan."
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  #53  
Old 10 Jul 16, 22:32
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I'll buy it when there are more than vague petroglyphs for proof. We know the Vikings made it. We've found structures, evidence of manufacture of bog iron, and such. That's solid evidence.

Some vague petroglyphs that might be totally misinterpreted doesn't cut it as solid proof.
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  #54  
Old 11 Jul 16, 05:26
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A bit to read, but well worth it:

http://www.hallofmaat.com/modules.ph...article&sid=91
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  #55  
Old 11 Jul 16, 09:57
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A lot of good reading here but how did this end up in the "American Revolution Forum"?
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  #56  
Old 11 Jul 16, 12:50
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Perhaps it's here ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
I'll buy it when there are more than vague petroglyphs for proof. We know the Vikings made it. We've found structures, evidence of manufacture of bog iron, and such. That's solid evidence.

Some vague petroglyphs that might be totally misinterpreted doesn't cut it as solid proof.
... on Cape Breton, Nova Scotia? Yes that's on the north central Atlantic coast of North America.




https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Chiasson

Have at it!
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  #57  
Old 11 Jul 16, 13:54
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I wonder if the Chinese could find records to show that their hearty pioneers ever made it back to China.
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  #58  
Old 12 Jul 16, 02:02
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marmat View Post
... on Cape Breton, Nova Scotia? Yes that's on the north central Atlantic coast of North America.




https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Chiasson

Have at it!
The obvious start to blow this off is:

If there was a town there, then there'd be remains of the structures, even if just foundations and post holes for timbers. There'd be pottery shards and other detritus of the occupants.
There'd be evidence of agriculture to feed the population.

When this guy can start showing some of that, not vague maybe stuff like he's got, maybe I'll pay attention.
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Old 12 Jul 16, 19:34
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The whole petroglyph argument is rather laughable.

First, why didn't the Chinese just write things down in Chinese writing, which would have provide unambious proof, if properly date and proved it wasn't a forgery. (The Chinese are just the people would do that kind of think, they created a fake feather dinosaur! they are greatest counterfeiters the world has ever seen, 400 years ago the Chinese were having to write manuals of how to spot fakes, as reported by the Jesuit priest Matteo Ricci. So if they thought they could get away with it, the Chinese would forge evidence they were in America first in a heartbeat.)

Second, the Shang oracle bones were only around 2500 years before the Ming, and the Chinese had forgotten about them, so it is silly to think that aresemblance seen only in the eye of the beholder would be evidence for the Chinese. The fact is, petroglyphs tend to look similar, because they are picture based. If 2 artist both draw a realistic picture of the same bird, theor pictures are going to look similar, since they are pictures of the same thing
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Old 13 Jul 16, 12:28
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Well, ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
The obvious start to blow this off is:

If there was a town there, then there'd be remains of the structures, even if just foundations and post holes for timbers. There'd be pottery shards and other detritus of the occupants.
There'd be evidence of agriculture to feed the population.

When this guy can start showing some of that, not vague maybe stuff like he's got, maybe I'll pay attention.
... having watched the program a few years ago, and heard what the experts featured in the snippet have to say about it, I can say with some certainty that you are ...

... RIGHT ON in your assessment!
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