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Go Back   Armchair General and HistoryNet >> The Best Forums in History > Historical Events & Eras > American Age of Discovery, Colonization, Revolution, & Expansion > American Revolution

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American Revolution 1763-1789 The birth of a new nation - to commence at the Proclaimation of 1763 to the end of the Articles of Confederation.

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  #16  
Old 09 Jan 09, 14:28
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Originally Posted by bass_man86 View Post
Pardon my confusion, back when I was in high school it was not called AP History, it was just History.
AP history is a college level class, and you get a college credit if you do well on the exam at the end of the course. Its not normal history that everyone takes.
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Old 09 Jan 09, 14:31
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Originally Posted by les Brains View Post
America is referred to as a 'melting pot' thanks to all the cultures that came to it over it's last 200+ years.

Now if the Chinese had made the initial splash, it would have been coming from the west coast not the east coast I suppose. So I suppose the west coast would look more like the US North East and California might be even more developed by now.

I guess the railways would have still been made by Chinese.

Unsure what the cultural impact would have been like, but I think Japan sure wouldn't have tried Pearl Harbour And they sure wouldn't have been allowed to trash the mother country like they did.

I suppose society around here would think a lot more of the elderly than they do. It would be interesting to see what form of government was considered the dominant one on the globe. And I think the interaction of Russia and China would be significantly different.

I have no idea where we would be technologically speaking.
I made this point to my teacher as well ,that west coast being developed opposite of what really happened due to the Europeans colonizing America and landing on the East, while the Chinese would land of the West therefore the West coast would be more developed
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Old 09 Jan 09, 14:40
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Originally Posted by bass_man86 View Post
A discovery is not a discovery if you do not share the knowledge gained. I am sure that your professor is correct, as are the people that believe that the Vikings made it to America first, and it matters not a whit because the knowledge gained was not shared. It was Columbus that brought the knowledge of foreign lands inhabited by peoples that had never been in contact with Europeans back to Spain, and thus changed the world. It is not thanks to a Chinese eunuch or a red bearded Viking that the American continents are what they are today. America is what it is thanks to the son of a Genoese weaver who persuaded Queen Isabella to fund the voyage, and thanks to Amerigo Vespucci that figured out that it was a different continent, which is why the American continents are named in his honor.
Correct-a-mundo Chief...

Way back in the late Pleistocene, when I was a freshman in college, my American History professor put it this way: There was no historical significance to the Vikings' early attemtps at settlements in North America. If some Chinese expedition reach the west coast before Columbus...They also did not do anything historically significant.

Although the fate of the Viking settlements in Greenland and North America is very significant from a paleoclimatology perspective.

From and anthropological perspective...The Orginal Americans and Chinese people probably do share a common ancestry.
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Old 09 Jan 09, 14:44
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Correct-a-mundo Chief...

Way back in the late Pleistocene, when I was a freshman in college, my American History professor put it this way: There was no historical significance to the Vikings' early attemtps at settlements in North America. If some Chinese expedition reach the west coast before Columbus...They also did not do anything historically significant.

Although the fate of the Viking settlements in Greenland and North America is very significant from a paleoclimatology perspective.

From and anthropological perspective...The Orginal Americans and Chinese people probably do share a common ancestry.
I see, so your saying that it means nothing who discovered it if they didn't do anything with it that has any value historically. Also that they didn't share what they had discovered.

That makes no sense, why would you not want to share that you discovered a new world, so to speak? I think there should be no debate over who discovered America. If it was me who discovered it I would make sure the whole world would know! (Just Kidding)
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Old 09 Jan 09, 14:51
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Originally Posted by ForIAmSparticus View Post
I see, so your saying that it means nothing who discovered it if they didn't do anything with it that has any value historically. Also that they didn't share what they had discovered.

That makes no sense, why would you not want to share that you discovered a new world, so to speak? I think there should be no debate over who discovered America. If it was me who discovered it I would make sure the whole world would know! (Just Kidding)
Columbus' discovery of North America...(well an island in the Caribbean)...Led to the exploration and colonization of North and South America by Europeans.

The Vikings' discovery of North America led to a bad Lee Majors movie in the 1970's.

For some reason, the crossing of the Bering land-bridge by Asian people in the late Pleistocene has never been counted as a "discovery" of North America. Arguably the earliest Americans did sort of come from China...between 40,000 and 13,000 years ago.
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Old 09 Jan 09, 14:59
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Columbus get the glory, the Vikings get a cheesy movie, and the land-bridge Asian people get nothing, that's so wrong they were the smart one just walking across.
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  #22  
Old 09 Jan 09, 15:12
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Originally Posted by ForIAmSparticus View Post
Columbus get the glory, the Vikings get a cheesy movie, and the land-bridge Asian people get nothing, that's so wrong they were the smart one just walking across.
They were probably following game they were hunting...They just had the misfortune of "discovering" America before history started...
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Old 09 Jan 09, 15:18
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Stinks for them, how were they supposed to know they had found a new continent.
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Old 09 Jan 09, 16:57
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What Chinese from the fleet that stayed behind to colonize would have been close enough to the people already there to make little genetic impact. Life could have been so seay compaired to the old country, that going native would have been easy, or inevitable.
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Old 09 Jan 09, 18:08
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So this is pretty much. Vikings/Chinese make a very valuable breakthrough (like and invention for example) but the don't patton the idea, and Columbus did patton this idea so he gets all the glory.
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Old 09 Jan 09, 18:12
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So this is pretty much. Vikings/Chinese make a very valuable breakthrough (like and invention for example) but the don't patton the idea, and Columbus did patton this idea so he gets all the glory.
Pretty much summarized this entire thread in one sentence, well done my friend.
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Old 09 Jan 09, 19:14
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You might take a look at some old posts on the "Frog in a well" "China" site. Last time I checked in, not only did no serious Western students of China give Menzies' theories any credence, but not a single major Chinese historian has stepped forward to embrace the claim. Remember that China was a vast, bureaucratic state set up on the Confucian model, where everything was meticulously recorded in official records. Had the Chinese discovered America, it would have been common knowledge among the literatti.
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Old 09 Jan 09, 19:52
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A link to the Frog in a well

Sparticus, to save you a little time, follow this link. Expand it, and read the comments. Some are from Ph Ds who speak, read, and write Chinese, and teach Chinese history, some in Chinese universities, or universities with a heavy overseas Chinese student population. Gleaning their comments may give you a few ideas of your own. Be careful how you present any that may convince you. My experience with HS level teachers is that they do not appreciate anyone goring their sacred cows. So tread carefully, be sure to research your own ideas and do not blindly accept anyone's counterarguments. Rather, use their premises as a search tool, read their points to where you can grasp their ideas, then make your own judgments, being careful to footnote anything that will raise questions in your teacher's mind.

See “Menzies and the problem of the “Smoking Gun” document
At http://www.froginawell.net/china/cat...graphy/page/5/
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Old 09 Jan 09, 19:59
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Originally Posted by lirelou View Post
Sparticus, to save you a little time, follow this link. Expand it, and read the comments. Some are from Ph Ds who speak, read, and write Chinese, and teach Chinese history, some in Chinese universities, or universities with a heavy overseas Chinese student population. Gleaning their comments may give you a few ideas of your own. Be careful how you present any that may convince you. My experience with HS level teachers is that they do not appreciate anyone goring their sacred cows. So tread carefully, be sure to research your own ideas and do not blindly accept anyone's counterarguments. Rather, use their premises as a search tool, read their points to where you can grasp their ideas, then make your own judgments, being careful to footnote anything that will raise questions in your teacher's mind.

See “Menzies and the problem of the “Smoking Gun” document
At http://www.froginawell.net/china/cat...graphy/page/5/
ok, thanks I will check the link out
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Old 10 Jan 09, 10:47
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Originally Posted by lirelou View Post
Sparticus, to save you a little time, follow this link. Expand it, and read the comments. Some are from Ph Ds who speak, read, and write Chinese, and teach Chinese history, some in Chinese universities, or universities with a heavy overseas Chinese student population. Gleaning their comments may give you a few ideas of your own. Be careful how you present any that may convince you. My experience with HS level teachers is that they do not appreciate anyone goring their sacred cows. So tread carefully, be sure to research your own ideas and do not blindly accept anyone's counterarguments. Rather, use their premises as a search tool, read their points to where you can grasp their ideas, then make your own judgments, being careful to footnote anything that will raise questions in your teacher's mind.

See “Menzies and the problem of the “Smoking Gun” document
At http://www.froginawell.net/china/cat...graphy/page/5/
Good link.

I must say that I'm a bit puzzled that an obviously eccentric and over-hyped book containing very dubious analysis and evidence should have gained so much attention. At the same time, the real maritime achievements of the Chinese have all but been ignored.

As such, even a treatise on the supposed achievement of the Chinese is being given an entirely Western/American-centric perspective!

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