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Go Back   Armchair General and HistoryNet >> The Best Forums in History > Books, Film and Media > Film, DVD, and TV

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Film, DVD, and TV Discuss the latest movies at the theatre and on DVD, as well as what is on TV. ACG film reviews will also be found here.

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  #2686  
Old 30 May 12, 06:53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Mann III View Post
Come on, now. It's cliche to smash on Godfather III, the film wasn't fully awful.

It had great cinematic qualities, and the story was well-formed.

My two complaints - the helicopter scene and Sophia Coppola.

I'd give it a solid 7.0 out of 10. Not a failure, but not strong enough to compete.
I forgive you for saying that, because you don't know me personally. If you did, you could never come to such a conclusion about me.

In short: I don't give it 4.0 because of any cliche, or what anyone else thinks. I watched it with a completely open mind and I genuinely believe it to be nowhere near as good as The Godfather or Godfather II; so I stand by my verdict. If I was comparing it with any old run-of-the-mill movie, then maybe I would not think quite so poorly of it. Unfortunately, because it is one of a series I must inevitably compare it with the first two and IMO, measured against my enjoyment of those first two movies, it was weak; and a very big disappointment to me.
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  #2687  
Old 30 May 12, 10:10
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I heard there was originally supposed to have been a fourth part...anyone know anything about this?

-Matt
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  #2688  
Old 30 May 12, 12:09
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I watched the Godfather movies in sequence about a year ago, and III was just awful. One of my top ten movies that should have never been made. I enjoyed the first two quite alot but had to force myself to finish watching III.
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  #2689  
Old 30 May 12, 17:41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Jones View Post
I heard there was originally supposed to have been a fourth part...anyone know anything about this?

-Matt
It would seem logical that it was scrapped, in spite of hatred for the third part. At least that's most likely the reason.
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  #2690  
Old 30 May 12, 21:11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain General View Post
I'm a Godfather fan and thought it sucked.

Michael Corleone lets his sister Connie into the inner circle of the Family business?

I don't think so.
Why? Woman kingpins exist too.

And that's to say nothing of manipulative women with powerful family connections.

Granted, Connie's arc throws a lot of people off. But it's not unrealistic.

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Originally Posted by panther3485 View Post
I forgive you for saying that, because you don't know me personally. If you did, you could never come to such a conclusion about me.

In short: I don't give it 4.0 because of any cliche, or what anyone else thinks. I watched it with a completely open mind and I genuinely believe it to be nowhere near as good as The Godfather or Godfather II; so I stand by my verdict. If I was comparing it with any old run-of-the-mill movie, then maybe I would not think quite so poorly of it. Unfortunately, because it is one of a series I must inevitably compare it with the first two and IMO, measured against my enjoyment of those first two movies, it was weak; and a very big disappointment to me.
As an element of a series it doesn't work as well, I'll admit that, but that's because of the closure they try to establish while opening another thematic door.

But in terms of cinematography the film is outstanding, in fact, there are more "art shots" than I and II put together.

It took me a year and a half of film classes to change my opinion, and that was because there are so many artistic elements in the film that most people wouldn't recognize without training.

Now, that does nothing for its blockbuster value, or for the continuity, but I think it was a gamble that could have paid if it weren't for audience ignorance to film art. However, film art does not sell tickets.

In other words, they tried to put too much art on it, and in-turn some elements of the story were overlooked in terms of production.

But a 4.0? That's just being mean.
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  #2691  
Old 30 May 12, 21:12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Catman View Post
I watched the Godfather movies in sequence about a year ago, and III was just awful. One of my top ten movies that should have never been made. I enjoyed the first two quite alot but had to force myself to finish watching III.
Lots of bashing going around...

But what, specifically, was wrong with the film?
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  #2692  
Old 30 May 12, 22:48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Mann III View Post
Why? Woman kingpins exist too.

And that's to say nothing of manipulative women with powerful family connections.

Granted, Connie's arc throws a lot of people off. But it's not unrealistic.
It's unrealistic for Michael Corleone to allow it.

Not at all something he would do.

He's old fashioned when it comes to women. Their role in life is to get married, make babies, and shut up. Nothing else.
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  #2693  
Old 31 May 12, 01:19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain General View Post
It's unrealistic for Michael Corleone to allow it.

Not at all something he would do.

He's old fashioned when it comes to women. Their role in life is to get married, make babies, and shut up. Nothing else.
That denies the influence of woman family members in Roman history, which was part of the them they had tried to impart.

Think I, Claudius and Claudius the God. And those are just the pop-culture examples.

I agree that Michael would have struggled with it, but there comes a point as a powerful person that family is all you've got, despite the past transgressions.
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  #2694  
Old 31 May 12, 03:02
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Back to the topic at hand

Marwencol

This documentary blew me away, and that is no small task.

A victim of a violent attack works through his trauma with intricate GI Joe dioramas.

Want to blow your hair back? Check this film out. It's on Netflix right now.
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  #2695  
Old 31 May 12, 07:16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Mann III View Post
"Why? Woman kingpins exist too. ... "
Among Italian crime/mafia type 'families' back in the 50's and 60's? I'd have to see that proven to believe it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Mann III View Post
"As an element of a series it doesn't work as well, I'll admit that, but that's because of the closure they try to establish while opening another thematic door.

But in terms of cinematography the film is outstanding, in fact, there are more "art shots" than I and II put together.

It took me a year and a half of film classes to change my opinion, and that was because there are so many artistic elements in the film that most people wouldn't recognize without training."
If you need some kind of specialized 'training' to recognize this, then it is obviously going to be of minimal to zero value for the vast majority of people.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Mann III View Post
"Now, that does nothing for its blockbuster value, or for the continuity, but I think it was a gamble that could have paid if it weren't for audience ignorance to film art. However, film art does not sell tickets.

In other words, they tried to put too much art on it, and in-turn some elements of the story were overlooked in terms of production."
The value of a film is in the enjoyment it gives to its audience; and their appreciation of it. If the film is so configured that only a tiny 'artistically trained' minority can appreciate it, then it's a flop in my book. We should not all have to run off and join some kind of film/media college just so we can appreciate movies!!!!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Mann III View Post
"But a 4.0? That's just being mean."
Bollox!!!

We're talking about a product intended for public entertainment; just the same as Godfather and Godfather II. The first two movies largely succeeded. The third, by comparison, largely failed. It's as simple as that.

I should not need to be part of a tiny elitist 'enlightened' group to enable facilitation of said entertainment; and frankly the assertion that the movie failed because of "audience ignorance of film art" is simply further evidence that Godfather III, as a product for public consumption compared to Godfather and Godfather II, just didn't cut it.

Movies made for entertainment of the public are just that. If the public at large don't find them so entertaining on a comparative basis, they are entitled to say so if for no other reason than the fact that they are expected to pay$ for this entertainment. Neither their voice nor their opinions should be disparaged.

And for my money, their opinions - and mine - are every bit as valid as yours.
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Last edited by panther3485; 31 May 12 at 07:37..
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  #2696  
Old 31 May 12, 07:27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Mann III View Post
"But what, specifically, was wrong with the film?"
If most other folks here are anything like me, it's about enjoyment. The entertainment value of a movie, to the perceptions and expectations of the person watching it.

For me (and I suspect just about everyone else), if I enjoy a movie a lot I'll give it a high score. If I don't enjoy it much at all, I'll give it a lower score. The lower the score, the less enjoyable and entertaining the movie was to me.

Simple, really.
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  #2697  
Old 31 May 12, 17:11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by panther3485 View Post

Among Italian crime/mafia type 'families' back in the 50's and 60's? I'd have to see that proven to believe it.
Think about the film in contemporary terms. That is a major element to all cinema, whether the average viewer realizes it or not.

I could suggest a few books that focus on the politics of a film and how it speaks to contemporary issues, if you're interested.

Also important to think in terms of history and popular themes, which is why the female power reference to Roman lore is so key.

Quote:
Originally Posted by panther3485 View Post

If you need some kind of specialized 'training' to recognize this, then it is obviously going to be of minimal to zero value for the vast majority of people.
There are a lot of arts and sciences that people should be required to learn about before they share their "expert" opinions.

Watching movies doesn't make a person able to interpret them an easier than trying to learn to be a soldier from a video game.

It's about training and hands-on experience. The blockbuster summer releases full of explosions and boobs are designed to please the more ignorant audience. But perhaps III is outside of the depth of the novice. That's fair.

Quote:
Originally Posted by panther3485 View Post

The value of a film is in the enjoyment it gives to its audience; and their appreciation of it. If the film is so configured that only a tiny 'artistically trained' minority can appreciate it, then it's a flop in my book.
I'd bet there are a lot of artistic films that, while are hailed in the world of cinema as groundbreaking or classic, are considered a flop in your book.

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Originally Posted by panther3485 View Post



Bollox!!!

We're talking about a product intended for public entertainment; just the same as Godfather and Godfather II. The first two movies largely succeeded. The third, by comparison, largely failed. It's as simple as that.
Strictly in terms of Box Office, you're correct. But when I start gauging art but what the unwashed masses buy into, send out of a death squad to hunt me down.
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  #2698  
Old 31 May 12, 17:12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by panther3485 View Post
If most other folks here are anything like me, it's about enjoyment. The entertainment value of a movie, to the perceptions and expectations of the person watching it.

For me (and I suspect just about everyone else), if I enjoy a movie a lot I'll give it a high score. If I don't enjoy it much at all, I'll give it a lower score. The lower the score, the less enjoyable and entertaining the movie was to me.

Simple, really.
The ability to better enjoy things often comes with an understanding of the finer points of the thing.

Isn't that much true?
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  #2699  
Old 31 May 12, 19:29
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The ability to better enjoy things often comes with an understanding of the finer points of the thing.

Isn't that much true?
I think this can be true-I believe it's true with Saints and Soldiers-I bet a film class could have a frenzy over some stuff in that movie. When I watched it, trying to interpret stuff, the insight was actually better (although the movie was still good in my opinion).
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Old 31 May 12, 21:12
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Real Name: Charley Skedaddle
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: On the Group "W" Bench
Posts: 12,342
Paul Mann III has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Paul Mann III has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Paul Mann III has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Paul Mann III has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Paul Mann III has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Paul Mann III has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Paul Mann III has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Paul Mann III has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Paul Mann III has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Paul Mann III has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Paul Mann III has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Paul Mann III has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Paul Mann III has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Paul Mann III has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Paul Mann III has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Paul Mann III has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Super Six 4 View Post
I think this can be true-I believe it's true with Saints and Soldiers-I bet a film class could have a frenzy over some stuff in that movie. When I watched it, trying to interpret stuff, the insight was actually better (although the movie was still good in my opinion).
It was a great film in terms of artistic quality. And the story is local for me, which created further interest in my case.

And it was a good war movie, all art aside.
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