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Go Back   Armchair General and HistoryNet >> The Best Forums in History > Current Events > Russia, Central Asia, and The Caucasus > South Ossetian Conflict

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South Ossetian Conflict Discuss the conflict between Georgia and Russia over South Ossetia.

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  #31  
Old 04 Dec 08, 14:52
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Originally Posted by Shamil View Post
Russian-Ossetians provokations were not limitted to some shootings.
It is a diffcult tophics ware both sides yell at each other, I remember something about Georgians shooting at Georgians too.

Quote:
You want to say that you are not pro-Soviet and pro-Kremlin? Please point out where you posted something that is not pro-Soviet and pro-Kremlin or pro-communist when it went about the USSR or Russia or any related topics?
The worst thing is that I am pro-realist...

Oh when dlo you want it?
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Last edited by Erkki; 04 Dec 08 at 14:55..
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  #32  
Old 04 Dec 08, 15:51
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Originally Posted by Erkki View Post
It is a diffcult tophics ware both sides yell at each other, I remember something about Georgians shooting at Georgians too.
As I see you try to invent something on the spur of the moment about Georgians shooting at Georgians.

Quote:
The worst thing is that I am pro-realist...

Pro-realist can't be pro-Soviet, pro-Kremlin or pro-communist in all the posts on any relevant topics. A pro-realist can hardly bear the USSR, Kremlin and communism as these entities have always tried to substitute reality with their enormous fictional propaganda.

Last edited by Shamil; 04 Dec 08 at 16:10..
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  #33  
Old 04 Dec 08, 15:54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shamil View Post
As I see you try to invent something on the spur of the moment about Georgians shooting at Georgians.
Nope I heard it.



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Pro-realist can't be pro-Soviet, pro-Kremlin or pro-communist in all the posts on any relevant topics.
Well to bad you see it that way.
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  #34  
Old 04 Dec 08, 16:04
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Originally Posted by Erkki View Post
Nope I heard it.
"I heard something I don't remember what precisely" is not an argument.

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Well to bad you see it that way.
You posts aren't equivocal. They leave no other ways to see them.
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  #35  
Old 04 Dec 08, 16:25
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Quote:
I heard something I don't remember what precisely" is not an argument.
Ok ok I look it up for you, hopefully I am wrong and we can laugh at it.

Quote:
You posts aren't equivocal. There is no other ways to see them.
But I wonder , what is your point? Pro-that and pro-this, anybody are allowed to express their views on this forum.

And what do you want to hear? Yes the soviet union was full of errors, stalin a murderer and Lennin the same, Stalin commited crimes and so did did most of the soviet leaders. Satisfied now? I can go on if you wish, Katyn is a terrible action commited by the NKVD on Stalin orders, Stalin deportations is enough to have him executed at least a thusand times over!
You want something bad about the Kremlin too? Well there are a bunch of idiotic corrupted men sitting on their asses hoping to re-make the USSR.
The Russian army is using out datet equipment, almost any forieng copy of the kalashnikov is better in some aspects. Russia got way to much of Neo-nazi idiots. Should I go on?



Quote:
Stalin commited crimes that is not something I am denying, it is to what degree he did and how large they ware.
http://www.armchairgeneral.com/forum...3&postcount=90

http://www.armchairgeneral.com/forum...8&postcount=39
Quote:
A properly founded Russian army without the hassling problems,
Add to that all those little things like Black Eagle tanks and Stealth planes, Isskander and S-400 missile systems.

Sell all the surface ships, Russia has never really been a naval power.
http://www.armchairgeneral.com/forum...&postcount=161

Quote:
Not for the famine, for the problems in the USSR but I am also blaming stupidy in the Soviey leadership.
Oh there was Japanese,Finns,Poles,Whites,France as I remember it.
And it was not the Russian empire, it was the USSR.
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  #36  
Old 05 Dec 08, 00:09
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Originally Posted by Exorcist View Post
As I have said before- the Russians beat up on Georgia because Georgia was trying to do the same thing to Ossetia that the Russians did to CHechnya; forced re-integration.

However, I doubt that any Ossetian town ever got slammed the way Grozny did.
The main problem with the comparison between the Chechen War and S. Ossetian War is the source of your information.

All the info about the Chechen war you have known had been got from Western mass media.

The S. Ossetian war is a very good example how the Western mass media distort truth about events and give only ine-sided description of the events. At first the Western mass media lie that Russia began the S.Osetian confliuct and only now, a couple months later they began to speak it was Georgia who began it and that Russian version is closer to the truth about that war.

The same picture was in the description of the Chechen events. I know different facts than you. If you know what I have known so you would not even try to compare Chechen war and s. ossetian war.

Russian Army didn't try to make genocide of the Chechen people, to clear the Chechen land from ethnic Chechens. Russian artillery didn't fire at night residental areas of Grozny. (But Georgians fired grom MLRS againast sleeping residental areas knowing that their target was only a residental area with sleeping civilians.) Russian soldiers didn't deliberately kill Cherchen civilians, Russian tanks didn't shoot cars with Chechen refugees and didn't shoot houses where civilians were and where there were not any kind of resistance from those buildings.

The Georgian Army did all these things, it's the difference. Russian army didn't do deliberate actions against civilians, Russian Army fought against armed enemy and all the victims between civilians and all the destructions between buildings were the result of military actions only. Many actions of Georgian Army were clearly done against civilian targets.

Last edited by Andrey; 05 Dec 08 at 00:13..
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  #37  
Old 05 Dec 08, 05:28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrey View Post
The same picture was in the description of the Chechen events. I know different facts than you. If you know what I have known so you would not even try to compare Chechen war and s. ossetian war.

Russian Army didn't try to make genocide of the Chechen people, to clear the Chechen land from ethnic Chechens. Russian artillery didn't fire at night residental areas of Grozny. (But Georgians fired grom MLRS againast sleeping residental areas knowing that their target was only a residental area with sleeping civilians.) Russian soldiers didn't deliberately kill Cherchen civilians, Russian tanks didn't shoot cars with Chechen refugees and didn't shoot houses where civilians were and where there were not any kind of resistance from those buildings.
The enormous war crimes of Russian Army in Chechnya have been confirmed by numerous independent sources including many honest Russian journalists.
The Russian Army killed 250000 Chechen civilians that is a real genocide considering the number of Chechen nationals. There is no use denying that Russian artillery and aircrafts razed to the ground every city and town in Chechnya.

Quote:

The Georgian Army did all these things, it's the difference. Russian army didn't do deliberate actions against civilians, Russian Army fought against armed enemy and all the victims between civilians and all the destructions between buildings were the result of military actions only. Many actions of Georgian Army were clearly done against civilian targets.
Destrusctions between buildings? What nonsence are you talking about? Russian Army also killed Ossetian civilians and are responsible for destructions as it used artillery and possessed air superiority. In the short campaign the Georgian army had neither motives, nor time and resources to waste to target civilians unlike the Russian troops in the conditions of endless partisan war in Chechnya.

Last edited by Shamil; 05 Dec 08 at 05:42..
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  #38  
Old 06 Dec 08, 10:54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shamil View Post
... The Russian Army killed 250000 Chechen civilians...
nah... those were killed by Chechen terrorist , not by the Russians .
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Originally Posted by Shamil View Post
... Russian Army also killed Ossetian civilians...
why telling lies ??
not a single civillian was killed during that operation .
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  #39  
Old 06 Dec 08, 12:16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stalin View Post
nah... those were killed by Chechen terrorist , not by the Russians .
why telling lies ??
not a single civillian was killed during that operation .
Amazing revelation stalin -- not a single civilian was killed ??? -- You are completely beyond belief in your ignorance of the facts.
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  #40  
Old 07 Dec 08, 01:16
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that is, no civilians were killed by the Russians. read the posts thoroughly
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  #41  
Old 07 Dec 08, 09:30
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Originally Posted by Erkki View Post
I'm not a Russia expert, but on one level I support any independence movement on the part of once-enslaved nations under the USSR. On another level, however, I don't want to see radical Islamic nations make any progress toward independence (I know Georgia is a predominantly Christian society). I generally support the Georgia struggle for liberation, and feel America should do so, as well. I was appalled when American Leftists argued in favor of Russian oppression of Georgia. Communists are so horribly misguided. I wish Karl Marx would come back to life, so we could hang him in public.
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Old 07 Dec 08, 09:52
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Karl Marx was a German Economist with no understanding of basic Human Nature.

In an ideal world - where everyone worked as hard as they possibly could - his ideas might have been possible -- but in the real world - there was no chance of success - and the USSR is a perfect example of the failure of communism -- Cuba is another -- their economy has been in the tank for over four decades - Just as in Russia -- their buildings are falling down or in desperate need of maintenance and infrastructure is hopelessly behind in modernization. Under communism there is no incentive for personal achievement so the general attitude seems to be "why bother ".

Sad !!
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Old 07 Dec 08, 15:18
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Originally Posted by Debray67 View Post
I'm not a Russia expert, but on one level I support any independence movement on the part of once-enslaved nations under the USSR. On another level, however, I don't want to see radical Islamic nations make any progress toward independence (I know Georgia is a predominantly Christian society). I generally support the Georgia struggle for liberation, and feel America should do so, as well. I was appalled when American Leftists argued in favor of Russian oppression of Georgia. Communists are so horribly misguided. I wish Karl Marx would come back to life, so we could hang him in public.
And I was appalled when American right wingers who don't know Georgia from Adam, started waving Georgian flags and saying we are all Gerogians and other ridiculous ****! Just because they hate Russia. Go ahead and talk about wanting to hang people, that's not oppressive at all!
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  #44  
Old 07 Dec 08, 15:20
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Originally Posted by Kaiser Franz View Post
Karl Marx was a German Economist with no understanding of basic Human Nature.
"For the bureaucrat, the world is a mere object to be manipulated by him."

"It is not history which uses men as a means of achieving - as if it were an individual person - its own ends. History is nothing but the activity of men in pursuit of their ends."

"Landlords, like all other men, love to reap where they never sowed."

"Society does not consist of individuals but expresses the sum of interrelations, the relations within which these individuals stand."

"The human being is in the most literal sense a political animal, not merely a gregarious animal, but an animal which can individuate itself only in the midst of society."

"The only antidote to mental suffering is physical pain."


"The writer must earn money in order to be able to live and to write, but he must by no means live and write for the purpose of making money."

Karl Marx
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  #45  
Old 07 Dec 08, 15:30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erkki View Post
"For the bureaucrat, the world is a mere object to be manipulated by him."

"It is not history which uses men as a means of achieving - as if it were an individual person - its own ends. History is nothing but the activity of men in pursuit of their ends."

"Landlords, like all other men, love to reap where they never sowed."

"Society does not consist of individuals but expresses the sum of interrelations, the relations within which these individuals stand."

"The human being is in the most literal sense a political animal, not merely a gregarious animal, but an animal which can individuate itself only in the midst of society."

"The only antidote to mental suffering is physical pain."


"The writer must earn money in order to be able to live and to write, but he must by no means live and write for the purpose of making money."

Karl Marx
And there you have it -- Exactly as I said -- no understanding of human nature.
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