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Go Back   Armchair General and HistoryNet >> The Best Forums in History > Current Events > Russia, Central Asia, and The Caucasus > South Ossetian Conflict

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South Ossetian Conflict Discuss the conflict between Georgia and Russia over South Ossetia.

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  #16  
Old 29 Nov 08, 16:11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erkki View Post
Hehe
There was an outcry this week when Georgia's former ambassador to Moscow said Georgia started the war.

Erosi Kitsmarishvili also said Georgia believed it had received Washington's approval for its attack.

The former envoy was condemned for his comments, and was nearly physically assaulted while giving evidence to the parliamentary hearing.
That's how Georgian neocons in power do business.
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  #17  
Old 29 Nov 08, 16:12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiser Franz View Post
No -- it wasn't about "right or wrong" - it was about the way he said things -- he was choosing the most inflammatory way of getting his idea across -- when the EU was negotiating a cease fire in Georgia.

Instead of saying something like ' a solution has been reached " he would say "The EU blinked first" -- stupid things like that.. Those are things that inflame a situation rather than calm it down.

SO I just told him what I thought on his blog -- later he answered half heartedly saying he just wrote what he felt was right at the time -- so -- his opinion - vs my opinion -- he writes for Russia Today -- I don't
Ah I see, his use of rhetoric doesn´t fit you , now I understend much better.
But I can agree, some of his headlines are plain stupid.
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  #18  
Old 29 Nov 08, 16:14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Emil_G View Post
But Kaiser, I am sure you don't really see that all the anti-Russia people not only write in this way, but worse, using open insults and jeers.
Yes -- I do see that many write that way -- and it shouldn't happen - I disagree with that going in both directions - I believe in fairness.

I believe in civility and the truth - and I believe that accredited news organizations should try to calm troubled waters rather then incite discord.

I argue against Russia over what I know to be the facts when they are denied -- other than that, I've found most Russians to be agreeable folks. I just get angry when obvious facts are distorted and provocative statements are made when there is no call for that sort of thing.
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  #19  
Old 29 Nov 08, 16:19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiser Franz View Post
Yes -- I do see that many write that way -- and it shouldn't happen - I disagree with that going in both directions - I believe in fairness.

I believe in civility and the truth - and I believe that accredited news organizations should try to calm troubled waters rather then incite discord.

I argue against Russia over what I know to be the facts when they are denied -- other than that, I've found most Russians to be agreeable folks. I just get angry when obvious facts are distorted and provocative statements are made when there is no call for that sort of thing.
Yeah OK, but how many letters have you written to those other bloggers or whoever?

I just think you are laying the problem at the wrong set of feet.
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  #20  
Old 30 Nov 08, 07:22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Emil_G View Post
But Kaiser, I am sure you don't really see that all the anti-Russia people not only write in this way, but worse, using open insults and jeers.
Uh, look who's talking.
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  #21  
Old 30 Nov 08, 21:27
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Originally Posted by pp(est) View Post
Uh, look who's talking.
Yeah? I'd say the same about you.
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  #22  
Old 02 Dec 08, 11:34
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even such professional liar like Mishiko Saakashvilli
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  #23  
Old 02 Dec 08, 16:17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erkki View Post
The usual RT nonsense ( lousier than Fox News) ...

Russia's state news agencies obviously had prepared such "news"
because they released the "news" during president's testimonial ..

Saakashvili already reacted in his testimonial:

"The commission chairman told President Saakashvili: the Russian news agencies are already reporting that as if during your ongoing testimony you have admitted that Georgia started the war;
Saakashvili responded: We have admitted that we did not surrender to the enemy and we have admitted that we resisted the enemy; the Georgian authorities have decided to carry out military operation to resist the Russia’s full-scale attack on the Georgian population; we took that decision and this decision – although it was very difficult – was the one, which would have been taken by any democratically elected government to protect its population; .. " ( civil.ge)
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  #24  
Old 03 Dec 08, 23:55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Florian.Geyer View Post
Saakashvili already reacted in his testimonial:

"The commission chairman told President Saakashvili: the Russian news agencies are already reporting that as if during your ongoing testimony you have admitted that Georgia started the war;
Saakashvili responded: We have admitted that we did not surrender to the enemy and we have admitted that we resisted the enemy; the Georgian authorities have decided to carry out military operation to resist the Russia’s full-scale attack on the Georgian population; we took that decision and this decision – although it was very difficult – was the one, which would have been taken by any democratically elected government to protect its population; .. " ( civil.ge)
bla-bla-bla

he confirmed he had ordered to attack Tskhinvali and all these words are only a cloud of nice words over this fact...
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  #25  
Old 04 Dec 08, 00:22
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As I have said before- the Russians beat up on Georgia because Georgia was trying to do the same thing to Ossetia that the Russians did to CHechnya; forced re-integration.

However, I doubt that any Ossetian town ever got slammed the way Grozny did.
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  #26  
Old 04 Dec 08, 01:08
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Chechnya isn´t so simple, it was not really a good example of a country, lot of terrorism and bandits.
What would US do if somebody started killing their peace keepers?

Perhaps beacause Georgia didn´t got time too do any moore damage?
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  #27  
Old 04 Dec 08, 07:38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erkki View Post

What would US do if somebody started killing their peace keepers?
Georgian peace-keepers in S. Ossetia had been regularly attacked and suffered losses for weeks before the open Russian invasion. So what should Georgians do?

Quote:
Chechnya isn´t so simple, it was not really a good example of a country, lot of terrorism and bandits.
It seems to me that you positively spoke of anarchism as absolute freedom. Now you say that Chechnya was not really a good example of a country, though it was one of the best existing countries from the point of view of any anarchist.


Quote:
Perhaps beacause Georgia didn´t got time too do any moore damage?
The Russian invasion caused the bulk of damage in the S.Osetia. Without the Russian intervention Tbilisi and its present-day troops would have taken full control over S. Osetia withing less than 24 hours with minimal damages and losses among civilians. The bulk of damages and losses were caused by the Russian invasion that provoked a full-scale warfare.

Last edited by Shamil; 04 Dec 08 at 07:49..
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  #28  
Old 04 Dec 08, 07:55
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Originally Posted by Exorcist View Post
As I have said before- the Russians beat up on Georgia because Georgia was trying to do the same thing to Ossetia that the Russians did to CHechnya; forced re-integration.
.
There is no need in comparing Chechnya with S. Osetia. The pro-Russian regime in S. Osetian has always existed only due to versatile Moscow's support, its pro-Russian henchmen could not hold out without open Russian intervention even for 24 hours. By the way, the top Russian henchman Kokojte left S. Osetia for the RF as soon as Georgian troops entered S. Osetia.

Last edited by Shamil; 04 Dec 08 at 08:23..
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  #29  
Old 04 Dec 08, 12:06
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shamil View Post
Georgian peace-keepers in S. Ossetia had been regularly attacked and suffered losses for weeks before the open Russian invasion. So what should Georgians do?
Can you prove they it wasn´t they who started shooting? Do you got any concret evidence for it or just Georgians claiming that like possibly did with the shooting at the president?



Quote:
It seems to me that you positively spoke of anarchism as absolute freedom. Now you say that Chechnya was not really a good example of a country, though it was one of the best existing countries from the point of view of any anarchist.
Positively? Analyse anarchism yourself and don´t listen to me , you never do that anyway.
I am a communist and famine denier, pro-soviet , gulag denier, liar in your mind so adding anarchist to that would not do much difference.

And don´t try to be funny like by only quoting "I am a communist and famine denier, pro-soviet , gulag denier, liar" and say something like "exactly"

Quote:
The Russian invasion caused the bulk of damage in the S.Osetia. Without the Russian intervention Tbilisi and its present-day troops would have taken full control over S. Osetia withing less than 24 hours with minimal damages and losses among civilians. The bulk of damages and losses were caused by the Russian invasion that provoked a full-scale warfare.
Read earlier post that you ignored once or two times already, I am sure youcan find it in this sections of the forums.
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  #30  
Old 04 Dec 08, 12:33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erkki View Post
Can you prove they it wasn´t they who started shooting? Do you got any concret evidence for it or just Georgians claiming that like possibly did with the shooting at the president?

Russian-Ossetians provokations were not limitted to some shootings.
Quote:
At 8:05 am on 1 August two roadside bombs hit a Georgian police vehicle on a detour road connecting Georgian-populated villages near the South Ossetian capital of Tskhinvali. The five policemen were wounded (six according to the secondary sources

Quote:
Posted by Erkki

Positively? Analyse anarchism yourself and don´t listen to me , you never do that anyway.
I am a communist and famine denier, pro-soviet , gulag denier, liar in your mind so adding anarchist to that would not do much difference.

And don´t try to be funny like by only quoting "I am a communist and famine denier, pro-soviet , gulag denier, liar" and say something like "exactly"

You want to say that you are not pro-Soviet and pro-Kremlin? Please point out where you posted something that is not pro-Soviet and pro-Kremlin or pro-communist when it went about the USSR or Russia or any related topics?

Last edited by Shamil; 04 Dec 08 at 12:42..
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