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Go Back   Armchair General and HistoryNet >> The Best Forums in History > Current Events > Russia, Central Asia, and The Caucasus > South Ossetian Conflict

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South Ossetian Conflict Discuss the conflict between Georgia and Russia over South Ossetia.

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  #91  
Old 07 Feb 09, 15:34
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It is pretty obvious that neither of you is willing to accept anything the other says about Georgia or Russia or anything else for that matter. Logic is not the issue. You do not trust each other and will not accept anything as evidence against your point of view. Fine - Put each other on Ignore and go find something useful to do.
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  #92  
Old 08 Feb 09, 16:53
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Originally Posted by GCoyote View Post
It is pretty obvious that neither of you is willing to accept anything the other says about Georgia or Russia or anything else for that matter. Logic is not the issue. You do not trust each other and will not accept anything as evidence against your point of view. Fine - Put each other on Ignore and go find something useful to do.
I had him on ignore but I enjoy how his hate for everything Russian/Soviet will allow any illogical claim or laughable exaggeration without ANY boundaries what so ever.
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  #93  
Old 08 Feb 09, 16:58
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Cripes!
Some people can't take a hint, can they?!
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  #94  
Old 11 Mar 09, 18:34
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When Russian troops opened fire on the capital of Chechnya, should Georgia have been "provoked" ?
What I don't understand is why the US is not supporting the Russians against Chechnya. These fellows done there are just as dangerous as the Taliban, and yet there is no help for Russia at all. These Chechnian rebels are also extremist muslims, blow up schools and theatres, and they are not invaded like Afghanistan. I wonder if the situation in the latter country would improve after Chechnya would be cleared of rebels by disarming and capturing them?
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Old 11 Mar 09, 20:28
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Beyond the the fact it's an internal Russian problem, there isn't a lot we could offer that the Russians don't already have. They've got everything from spy satellites to Spetsnaz. IIRC we do exchange law enforcement info related to wanted Chechens travelling abroad.
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  #96  
Old 12 Mar 09, 07:07
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macfrank, the situation is far more complicated than that.

Chechnya used to be quite secular, if prone to criminality, and Dudayev or Maskhadov certainly were no terrorists. During the first war, the terrorist incidents were very limited. Of course the war was brutal, but Russia used all the same tactics as they had used in Afghanistan so the response was what you could expect. Both sides to the war for example took civilians as hostages.

The terrorist streak was carried mostly by Shamil Basayev and his group. Basayev first gained notoriety by hijacking an aircraft in Russia in 1991 to force Yeltsin repeal the state of emergency regarding Chechnya (this was before the first war). Next he showed up in Abkhazia where he fought for Russia against Georgia. He was instrumental in carrying out the extremely bloody ethnic cleansing operations which forced more than half of the residents of Abkhazia to leave (and they haven't been able to return since).

After Chechens won the first war, Basayev tried to get himself elected president but lost to Maskhadov (it is still the only properly monitored democratic elections in the history of Chechnya so far).

Later on he launched his own attack in Dagestan which precipitated the second Chechen war. Throughout this time there was a power struggle between the secular Chechens and the Basayev lead islamists. Russia concentrated in taking out the secular side to marginalize Chechnya and take away the limited foreign support they had enjoyed. In this Russia was succesful. After the secular Chechens were destroyed there was more time to deal with the islamists. The increased importance of the islamists also increased the reliance on terrorism.

Given the destructive nature of Basayev and the clear links between him and the Russian intelligence services during the Abkhaz war there are some conspiracy theories floating around that he was somehow being controlled by Putin. I think the man was a rabid dog who was beyond the control of anybody.

Russia has now secured peace by allowing Chechnya to be ran by a local warlord pretty much as he likes (as long as he pays tribute to Putin). There is no democratization process in sight. Why should the US or anybody else in the west support such a thing?
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