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Go Back   Armchair General and HistoryNet >> The Best Forums in History > Current Events > Russia, Central Asia, and The Caucasus > South Ossetian Conflict

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South Ossetian Conflict Discuss the conflict between Georgia and Russia over South Ossetia.

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  #61  
Old 12 Aug 08, 12:04
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I go away for 5 minutes and he gets kicked out of here. Thought it was quiet.
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  #62  
Old 12 Aug 08, 12:58
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Originally Posted by copenhagen View Post
I go away for 5 minutes and he gets kicked out of here...
at least , the guy now gets an oppotunity to take some rest ;
maybe, for the benefit of his own health...
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  #63  
Old 12 Aug 08, 13:11
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Originally Posted by Jukov View Post
Yeah? Where was they when muslims butchered thousand of SERBIANS?

Europe and US are blind WHEN IT IS IN THEIR OWN INTERESTS
Like I said, they took a lot of heat for not getting involved sooner. That went for all atrocities that were taking place, not just Serbian instigated ones. All parties involved in that conflict were guilty of war crimes.
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  #64  
Old 12 Aug 08, 13:18
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Originally Posted by vyshka View Post
... All parties involved in that conflict were guilty of war crimes.
still, it was the Serbs only who were subjected to genocide .
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  #65  
Old 12 Aug 08, 13:22
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Originally Posted by stalin View Post
at least , the guy now gets an oppotunity to take some rest ;
maybe, for the benefit of his own health...
I have to hand it to you Uncle Joe. At least your blatant Russian nationalism is done in a cool and completely dead pan manner.
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  #66  
Old 12 Aug 08, 13:54
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Originally Posted by stalin View Post
still, it was the Serbs only who were subjected to genocide .
Yeah right. It was only those poor Serbs who were subjected to genocide. Everything that the Serbs did was fabricated evidence as part of the world conspiracy to keep the Slavs down.
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  #67  
Old 12 Aug 08, 14:09
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Stalin: Check out this link kindly provided by PatBC in the Radovan Karadzic thread
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  #68  
Old 12 Aug 08, 14:40
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PUT THAT OIL PIPE DIRECTLY TO YOUR *******
БАКЛАН
Well, no wonder he got banned. Thank God! There was no reasoning with this guy.
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  #69  
Old 12 Aug 08, 15:24
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We'll have to start calling him Curt "Texas Tea" Pangracs.
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  #70  
Old 12 Aug 08, 16:07
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CPangracs has a special skill with enraging people...

I guess nobody warned Comrade Jerkov about him...
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  #71  
Old 12 Aug 08, 18:22
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Media Manipulation

I realize this thread is not supposed to be about the Bosnian-Serb conflict of the 90s, but since 'Stalin' and others mentioned the subject, I recalled some 'media manipulation' that took place in the fighting around Sarajevo that -- given the claims of ethnic cleansing and atrocities being made by both Georgia and Russia in the present conflict -- might be something to keep in mind.

During the 1991-94 time frame, I was serving on the Joint Staff in the Pentagon, and although my area of responsibility was Russia and the new former-Soviet republics, our Joint Staff division of which my branch was a part was involved in US planning for what eventually became US participation in Balkans peacekeeping.

Although I "had no dog in the fight", it was clear to us on the Joint Staff that the US State Dept (sorry, not my favorite branch of the US govt) was firmly set on portraying the Bosnian Serbs as the aggressors and the Bosnian Muslims as innocent victims, and was doing everything it could to get Gen. Powell (then JCS Chairman) to support the use of US troops in the region. The truth, as has been noted by some posters on this thread, is that both sides committed outrages -- the Serbs, who got most of the heavy weapons when Yugoslavia collapsed, were just better equipped to prosecute military actions. Yet, the Bosnian Muslims proved adept at 'provoking' what to the media seemed like Serb outrages, using these propaganda coups to garner international sympathy.

One example that stands out in my mind -- and might be relevant to the current crisis -- is during the 'siege of Sarajevo.' Bosnian Muslim mortar crews would set up near one of their own hospitals and start firing at Serb artillery positions. This, naturally, soon brought down Serb artillery fire on the mortar position -- and of course, collateral damage to the hospital. By the time the media showed up, of course, the mortar crew was long gone, but the Bosnian Muslims were quick to shepard the media camera crews around the damage done to the hospital, generating the headlines "Serb Gunners Target Hospital."

Let me be clear -- I do not back either the Bosnian Muslims or the Bosnian Serbs over the Balkans conflict. And the example I've just related should in no way be regarded as a justification for anything that Karadcic did -- his actions are in a class by themselves and completely unjustifiable. Yet, both sides committed outrages. The point of what I'm saying with this example from an earlier conflict is that in a situation where vulnerable civilians are in a position to be caught in the crossfire, neither side will likely be reluctant to captialize on the suffering -- and might not be above provoking some of it for international media consumption.
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  #72  
Old 12 Aug 08, 19:48
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At least the US military has learned from this example (Mr. Morelock's) and we do not counter-artillery fire on the mortar attacks in Iraq.
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  #73  
Old 12 Aug 08, 22:10
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Back to the topic

I had an opinion that now it is too early for serious analysis of this conflict. Too little information for consideration. Ralph Peters' article is a good sample - lack of facts makes it more similar to Russian propagandistic leaflets than to real analysis IMO. Most of arguments can be easily refuted. Personal feelings, even if they are sincere and righteous, rarely can be considered as a correct basis for analysis. Honestly I did not expect from ACG that I would regret about time which I spent for reading
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  #74  
Old 13 Aug 08, 01:24
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I have a question; there's been quite a bit of political and military reasons put forth here about the invasion. Does anyone have some clear info about economic reasons? Maybe something about the pipelines that might be a little more clear?
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  #75  
Old 13 Aug 08, 01:40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Mann III View Post
CPangracs has a special skill with enraging people...
yes, Paul, you are right .
i, for one, have added this guy to my *ignore* list - once saw what he's about.
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