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Go Back   Armchair General and HistoryNet >> The Best Forums in History > Forum Resources > Armchair Attacks! > Citizens Coliseum

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Citizens Coliseum Community Generated Tournaments

View Poll Results: Choose the greatest non-western general
Yi Sun-sin 10 76.92%
Genghis Khan 3 23.08%
Voters: 13. You may not vote on this poll

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  #1  
Old 22 Apr 08, 15:43
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Non-western Generals Final: Yi Sun-sin vs Genghis Khan

Yi Sun-sin (April 28, 1545 – December 16, 1598, also commonly transliterated Yi Soon-shin or Lee Sun-shin) was a Korean naval leader noted for his victories against the Japanese navy during the Japanese invasions of Korea (1592-1598) during the Joseon Dynasty. He led the victories as the first commandant of the Gyeongsang, Jeolla, and Chungcheong provincial navies. His title of Samdo Sugun Tongjesa, literally meaning "Tri-provincial naval commander" was to remain as the title of the commander of the operating arm of the Korean navy until 1896. Yi is also known for his innovative use of the turtle ship (거북선), the world's first armoured warship. He is reputed to be one of the few admirals to have been victorious in every naval battle (at least 23) in which he commanded.[1]

Yi was killed by a single bullet in the Battle of Noryang Point in December, 1598. The royal court eventually bestowed various honors upon him, including a posthumous title of Chungmugong (충무공, 忠武公, Martial Lord of Loyalty), an enrollment as a Seonmu Ildeung Gongsin (선무일등공신, 宣武一等功臣, First-class military order of merit during the reign of Seonjo), and two posthumous offices, Yeongijeong (영의정, 領議政, Prime Minister), and the "Deokpung Buwongun" (덕풍부원군, 德豊府院君, The Prince of the Court from Deokpoong). He also received the title of Yumyeong Sugun Dodok (Admiral of the Fleet of Ming China) posthumously, by the Emperor of Ming.




Genghis Khan (help·info) (IPA: [ʧiŋgɪs χaːŋ]) (Mongolian: Чингис Хаан, Chingis Khaan, Činggis Qaɣan), c. 1162[1]–1227), born Temüjin (help·info), was the founder, Khan (ruler) and posthumously declared Khagan (emperor[2]) of the Mongol Empire, the largest contiguous empire in history.

He came to power by uniting many of the nomadic tribes of northeast Asia. After founding the Mongol Empire and being proclaimed "Genghis Khan", he pursued an aggressive foreign policy by starting the Mongol invasions of East and Central Asia. During his life, the Mongol Empire eventually occupied most of Asia.

Genghis Khan died in 1227 after defeating the Tanguts. He was buried in an unmarked grave somewhere in his native Mongolia. His descendants went on to stretch the Mongol Empire across most of Eurasia, conquering all of modern-day China, as well as substantial portions of modern Russia, southern Asia, Eastern Europe and the Middle East.
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  #2  
Old 22 Apr 08, 15:47
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I voted Yi. I think he shows a mix of tactical, logistical and strategic brilliance. I think his victories were legendary, and against the odds. He was never defeated. He won on land and sea. And he did it often without the support of the central government.
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Old 22 Apr 08, 16:58
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Gotta go with Yi.
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  #4  
Old 22 Apr 08, 17:50
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I think it's interesting that the generals in this tournament that made it to the top 4 didn't really show up in the previous one, and Yi is winning at the moment, which would make it something of a surprise victory. I wonder how he'd fare against Napoleon...
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Old 22 Apr 08, 18:44
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Owch this was a hard one. Genghis was one of my favourite generals as a kid. Yi Sun-shin was a legendary hero who fought the Japanese and won. I didn't put it to the flip of the coin but it was that close (mind you i would need to find a coin). In the end i picked Yi he was the underdog and won and I have to admire that especially since Genghis was an alpha dog.
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  #6  
Old 22 Apr 08, 20:57
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I went with THE KHAN because of his brilliance and because of what he had to go through to evewn get control of his own tribe, let alone others--and at a late age for generals.
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Old 22 Apr 08, 22:43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alina View Post
I voted Yi. I think he shows a mix of tactical, logistical and strategic brilliance. I think his victories were legendary, and against the odds. He was never defeated. He won on land and sea. And he did it often without the support of the central government.
I concur. Yi for me.
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  #8  
Old 23 Apr 08, 19:52
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Voted for Yi and it looks as if he is running away with the title!
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Old 23 Apr 08, 20:06
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Yi! Yi! Yi! I was batting 1.000 before the final. Knew it was too good to last.

Considering there have been only 13 voters in the other rounds, I'd say it's a lock.
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Old 27 Apr 08, 21:05
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YI!

Y'ARR!

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  #11  
Old 27 Apr 08, 21:13
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Now I know how the Patriots feel--we both won every single contest except the very last one.
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Old 23 Oct 08, 14:22
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This is comparing apples to oranges. This is also comparing a local national hero versus a world conqueror. Yi's exploits were fighting the Imjin wars or the Hideyoshi wars against a disorganized group of Japanese samurais mobilized to fight in their own country's decades long civil war. Whether this group of Japanese invaders were vastly superior is under heavy debate. Their naval capacities were certainly below the Koreans, as the Japanese mostly focused on foot and mounted samurai, along with conscripted archers and musketmen, a land force. This was also the first time that Japan was able to invade as a semi-unified country, anywhere outside of their island nation. Basically, it was a bunch of undeployed samurai, trained from life soldiers who can do nothing else except make war, invading another country with no particular purpose or goal in mind. They were veterans, but suffered from localised tactics and disorganization due to feudal commanders not owing complete allegiance to a commoner turned warlord Hideyoshi. In fact, Hideyoshi was not even Senyi Daishogun yet, and he would never become shogun, leaving the fate of Japan to the Tokugawas.

So when you're talking about underdog status, sure Yi and the Koreans were not exactly prepared or battled-hardened like the Japanese, but they were fighting in their home turf, against an invading army crossing the sea, with some backing and help from China (of questionable effectiveness, of course). Yi was also involved only in naval command of the war, an important but not all-encompassing aspect of the war. The aspect of Korean hyper-nationalism and hero worshipping of recent times cannot be understated here as well. In reality, Yi was a capable naval commander that excelled in naval raids mainly against Japanese supply ships. However, modern Korean nationalism has elevated Yi to the status of national hero. The underdog status of the Koreans in the Imjin wars are often overstated to achieve this effect.

In short, Ghengis was a world conqueror of many different nations and cultures who revolutionized military tactics and strategy, along with his ability to solicit and follow the advice of talented advisors and generals of all nationalities, and his underrated political and administrative prowess. He can only be measure on the levels of other world conquerors and politicians, that had a profound effect on world history. To compare Yi to Ghengis is actually quite insulting.
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Old 04 Oct 10, 09:59
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Yi Sun-Sin was an admiral. He wasn't a general.

Genghis Khan wins by default.
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  #14  
Old 13 Oct 10, 12:33
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Genghis easy

You have to see the aftermath

Yi effected Korea
Genghis effected the world
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Old 13 Oct 10, 22:50
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Yi was an undefeated General before he was an undefeated Admiral...

His success as a General led to his imprisonment by the Emperor from fear of his popularity & potential power...

His experience was not only as a Korean Admiral, which is what he is most known for, but as well as a General in Chinese service.

It's easily seen here that little or nothing is known of Yi by most lately making such high praise for Khan - deserving of it he is, as well.

Yi's influence upon naval power was far beyond that of fighting supply ships, mates...

Do some serious research & learn something you most certainly will!


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