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Go Back   Armchair General and HistoryNet >> The Best Forums in History > Historical Events & Eras > World War II > Armor in World War II > German and Axis Armor

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German and Axis Armor Discuss German and Axis armored fighting vehicles in World War II. This is also the forum for Achtung Panzer.

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  #61  
Old 27 Nov 08, 17:33
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  #62  
Old 27 Nov 08, 18:10
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Originally Posted by panther3485 View Post
Senior staff have approved this in principle but I've been asked to get an OK from the host, George Parada, as well. Be patient, guys.
George Parada, he hasn't posted here in ages!
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  #63  
Old 27 Nov 08, 22:35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Achtung baby View Post
George Parada, he hasn't posted here in ages!
Yeah, I know. I asked the senior mods how I could best get in touch with George and I'm still waiting for an answer. If I hear nothing by tonight after I get home from work, I'll rattle their cage again.

Edit: This was actually fixed by the time I got home from work, so the Panther thread is now stickied. Thanks to all for being patient.
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Last edited by panther3485; 28 Nov 08 at 11:51..
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  #64  
Old 28 Nov 08, 21:18
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  #65  
Old 04 Dec 08, 04:00
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Weaknesses of Mark V

This is from "United States vs German Equipment," page 131:

"the weaknesses of the Mark V in comparison with the M4A3E8 are believed to be as follows:

Limited visibility of crew members.
Slow traversing speed of turret.
Over-heating of engine during difficult operation.
Bright glow of exhaust stacks at night after engine runs for short period.
Difficulty in performing maintenance on engine.
Thin armor plate (5/8 inch) over driver and engine compartment.
Large openings on top of rear deck for cooling fans vulnerable to shell fire and strafing.
Lack of gyro-stabilizer.
Lack of escape hatch.
Heavy gasoline consumption.
No control of turret traverse by tank commander, only by the gunner.
No anti-aircraft gun provided."
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  #66  
Old 12 Dec 08, 21:56
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Amazing model

http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/lsm/dhmg/shul003.html
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  #67  
Old 09 Jan 09, 13:09
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October 1942 Born the Panzer V Panther

http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=P7NmI7...eature=related
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  #68  
Old 12 Jan 09, 06:01
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom D View Post
This is from "United States vs German Equipment," page 131:

"the weaknesses of the Mark V in comparison with the M4A3E8 are believed to be as follows:

Limited visibility of crew members.
Strangely the French – more precisely the Ministre de la Guerre, Section Technique de l’Armée, Groupement Auto-Char states 1947 on that. “the commanders cupola with its 7 periscopes provides a nearly perfect all-around visibility. Periscopes damaged by shells can be replaced very quickly.” And “Aside from the gunners gun sight periscope -which is excellent – the gunner has no other observation devise.” The gunner had a 28°deg field of view.
The driver had, with the driver periscope, a 70°deg field of vision, stepless.

Quote:
Slow traversing speed of turret.
The slow traversing speed was only on the Ausf.D with 60 seconds for a full traverse
The Ausf. A/G got a traverse speed of 15 seconds for a full turret traverse. Later limited
to around ca. 18 seconds due to the RPM restriction for the Maybach 2500rpm from Nov.43.
French sources from 1947 states that the Panther turret steering seems strong enough to be accurate for that time – even at sloped terrain.
Same French source as above states on that problem with the turret traverse that traversing probs occurred on slopes of more than 20°degs. Weak turret steering is addressed to nearly all designs in the 40s.
Not to forget traversing problems was a big problem even to later US designs. Traverse problems already occurred on the M10/36 on slope terrain of only 4° degs.


Quote:
Over-heating of engine during difficult operation.
Would be nice to know which sub type of the Panther was test there. The Panther got the best
weight / HP ratio of any WWII tanks - except the T-34 – and the gearbox also offered a 7 gear transmission for a fine grade adjustment of the gear for letting the engine run in optimal RPM spectrum – depending on the task.
The much weaker motorized and much more modern M26 Pershing offers - with a much weaker engine - a poorer weight/HP ratio with only a 3speed transmission option. The 3 gear means that the engine is forced to operated constantly in not optimal RPM spectrum due to the lacking gears.
For the Sherman-Easy 8 the same thing. Weaker weight/HP ratio additional to that fewer gears.

Quote:
Bright glow of exhaust stacks at night after engine runs for short period.
That’s why the Ausf. G received exhaust dampers.

Quote:
Difficulty in performing maintenance on engine.
Difficulty goes hand in hand with lack of knowledge. “Difficulties” is no real statement.

Quote:
Large openings on top of rear deck for cooling fans vulnerable to shell fire and strafing.
There were covers as a field mod to provide protection from strafing a/c, but given up due to the lack of real need.

Quote:
Lack of gyro-stabilizer.
The French Report from 1947 mentions a stabilizer which was powered by compressed nitrogen.
Seems that this feature must be implemented with the Ausf.G then.

Quote:
Lack of escape hatch.
There was no escape-hatch on the hull floor agreed, but escape was possible through the
“Verständigungs -Hatch” on the turrets rear. BTW an escape hatch on the hull floor offers escape only if the tank stands on flat, even concrete/terrain. On terrain where the tank sanks in by an amount of some inches there’s no escape possible through a floor hatch.

Quote:
Heavy gasoline consumption.
That’s a gasoline engine problem at all. German tests on Allied tanks states exactly the opposite thing. Regarding the fuel consumption of gasoline engines the Maybach HL230 got a better fuel consumption rate than the much thirsty Sherman Vc and Cromwell engines.

Quote:
No control of turret traverse by tank commander, only by the gunner.
Was a big minus. The lack of that also in the French Report.

Quote:
No anti-aircraft gun provided."
That was provided to the Panther Ausf.A and later. Also anti-a/c task was provided by specialized AA-tank within the unit.

Last edited by Kimura; 12 Jan 09 at 06:18..
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  #69  
Old 19 Jan 09, 10:47
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Getting at the drive train on a Panther was a pig of a job requiring partially dismantling the tank. On a sherman you just unbolted the big ring behind the sprocket and went to work.

I agree the commander has a good field of view (better than virtually any allied tank) but the Panther was riddled with minor design faults that disproportionately affected performance. Little things like a lack of a brow pad above the gunners sight meant it was dangerous for the gunner to have his eye to the gunsight while driving. How many Panthers were lost for the sake of a bit of padded leather? The gunners controls were very awkwardly placed and clearly not designed with any comfort in mind. The loader could maybe get out that escape hatch but there was no chance of the gunner getting under the breach and out of it if the Panther burnt. Early ones had very exposed ammo stores and they brewed up like shermans, although this was fixed in later models.

The turret traverse was O.K ON LEVEL GROUND, but going up a slope it could be tricky to traverse the gun. It should have had a turret counterweight to offset the L71 barrel.

Osprey's dual series 'Panther v sherman' is full of this sort of thing and is worth reading although maybe not at Ospreys full UK RRP

I should add the overheating has little to do with the HP to weight ratio and is more to do with design of radiators and lubricant provision. The Ausf D's they deployed at Kursk were having engine fires within 20kms of detraining. There's some evidence of lubrication line sabotage in museum examples so this may be more to do with using forced labour than actual design faults. The Tiger engine overheated within 30 secs of the radiators under the rear engine grills being punctured by shrapnel and I suspect the Panther would be equally vunerable. Grills were fitted to stop some shrapnel getting in but they wouldn't stop .50 cal shells. You couldn't properly cover the grills without greatly reducing their function which would lead to more overheating problems.

Last edited by peter_sym; 19 Jan 09 at 10:52..
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  #70  
Old 10 Mar 09, 04:04
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  #71  
Old 01 Apr 09, 22:20
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  #72  
Old 02 Apr 09, 05:51
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hm.. Panther tank eh? now that was a excellent tank..
Well armed, heavily armored, and had good speed.. It's a favorite of mine.. but not THE tank for me..
(that award goes to it's big brother.. the King Tiger.)
but still, I have tons of respect for that vehicle..
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  #73  
Old 02 Apr 09, 13:52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bravo Six View Post
hm.. Panther tank eh? now that was a excellent tank..
Well armed, heavily armored, and had good speed.. It's a favorite of mine.. but not THE tank for me..
(that award goes to it's big brother.. the King Tiger.)
but still, I have tons of respect for that vehicle..
Why is the King Tiger your favorite?
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  #74  
Old 02 Apr 09, 22:14
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Well.. since it personifies me the best..
it's Big, it's fairly fast, and can kill you in 1-2 hits.. now that's why I favor it over everything else..
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  #75  
Old 03 Apr 09, 03:41
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Quote:
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Well.. since it personifies me the best..
it's Big, it's fairly fast, and can kill you in 1-2 hits.. now that's why I favor it over everything else..
It is certainly big...way too big for most bridges in Europe and in Russia, which caused many operational problems. Further, it was so big that it was grossly under-powered...using the same identical engine used in the Panther. Being under-powered at 68 to 70 tons does not make it "fairly fast." It also had terrible breakdown problems, which again, caused many operational problems. While it can knock out most tanks of WW II at a fairly long range, it too, could be knocked out through its sides and rear by most tanks of WW II.

Since you like it so much, check out this:
http://worldwartwozone.com/forums/la...-on-prowl.html

Last edited by Tom D; 03 Apr 09 at 03:49..
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