HistoryNet.com RSS
ArmchairGeneral.com RSS

HistoryNet.com Articles
America's Civil War
American History
Aviation History
British Heritage
Civil War Times
MHQ
Military History
Vietnam
Wild West
World War II

ACG Online
ACG Magazine
Stuff We Like
War College
History News
Tactics 101
Carlo D'Este
Books

ACG Gaming
Boardgames
PC Game Reviews

ACG Network
Contact Us
Our Newsletter
Meet Our Staff
Advertise With Us

Sites We Support
HistoryNet.com
Once A Marine
The Art of Battle
Game Squad
Mil. History Podcast
Russian Army - WW2
Achtung Panzer!
Mil History Online

Go Back   Armchair General and HistoryNet >> The Best Forums in History > Historical Events & Eras > American Civil War

Notices and Announcements

American Civil War The American Civil War.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 01 Jan 08, 22:32
Eric Wittenberg's Avatar
Eric Wittenberg Eric Wittenberg is offline
Lieutenant General
United_States
5 Year Service Ribbon 
 
Real Name: Eric J. Wittenberg
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Posts: 3,233
Eric Wittenberg is a jewel in the rough [500]
Eric Wittenberg is a jewel in the rough [500] Eric Wittenberg is a jewel in the rough [500] Eric Wittenberg is a jewel in the rough [500] Eric Wittenberg is a jewel in the rough [500] Eric Wittenberg is a jewel in the rough [500] Eric Wittenberg is a jewel in the rough [500] Eric Wittenberg is a jewel in the rough [500] Eric Wittenberg is a jewel in the rough [500] Eric Wittenberg is a jewel in the rough [500]
Cavalry Operations in the Western Theater

In the hope of steering discussion away from our pal Thomas Jefferson and his neo-Confederate rantings, let's instead focus on something interesting....

I've often said that part of the reason why I don't have a great deal of respect for Nathan Bedford Forrest is because, with the distinct exception of James H. Wilson at Selma, he always faced the second team.

Then, there was Wheeler, who enjoyed a modicum of success in spite of not being particularly talented. Wheeler faced pretty much every Union cavalry commander in the West, including the Eastern Theater retreads (he put a damned good whipping on Kilpatrick at Aiken, SC in February 1865).

I have some thoughts on the subject, but I would be interested in hearing why people think that, until Wilson's independent command was formed during the fall and winter of 1864-1865, the Union cavalry in the West got short shrift and not the best of the commanders or the weaponry that were commonly distributed to the Army of the Potomac's Cavalry Corps.

I welcome the discussion, but I would really prefer to keep this from being a "Forrest is great" thread, as that's not my object here.

Eric
__________________
"If you want to have some fun, jine the cavalry"

Maj. Gen. James Ewell Brown Stuart
Reply With Quote
Facebook Connect and Magazine Promotions

World War II Magazine
$26.95

Armchair General Magazine
$26.95
Military History Magazine
$26.95
  #2  
Old 01 Jan 08, 22:59
johnbryan's Avatar
johnbryan johnbryan is offline
General of the Forums
United_States
5 Year Service Ribbon Best Pin-Up Of World War II 
 
Real Name: John
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Michigan
Posts: 16,536
johnbryan has achieved enlightenment [1200+] johnbryan has achieved enlightenment [1200+] johnbryan has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
johnbryan has achieved enlightenment [1200+] johnbryan has achieved enlightenment [1200+] johnbryan has achieved enlightenment [1200+] johnbryan has achieved enlightenment [1200+] johnbryan has achieved enlightenment [1200+] johnbryan has achieved enlightenment [1200+] johnbryan has achieved enlightenment [1200+] johnbryan has achieved enlightenment [1200+] johnbryan has achieved enlightenment [1200+] johnbryan has achieved enlightenment [1200+] johnbryan has achieved enlightenment [1200+] johnbryan has achieved enlightenment [1200+] johnbryan has achieved enlightenment [1200+] johnbryan has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Quote:
Originally Posted by EricWittenberg View Post
In the hope of steering discussion away from our pal Thomas Jefferson and his neo-Confederate rantings, let's instead focus on something interesting....

I've often said that part of the reason why I don't have a great deal of respect for Nathan Bedford Forrest is because, with the distinct exception of James H. Wilson at Selma, he always faced the second team.

Then, there was Wheeler, who enjoyed a modicum of success in spite of not being particularly talented. Wheeler faced pretty much every Union cavalry commander in the West, including the Eastern Theater retreads (he put a damned good whipping on Kilpatrick at Aiken, SC in February 1865).

I have some thoughts on the subject, but I would be interested in hearing why people think that, until Wilson's independent command was formed during the fall and winter of 1864-1865, the Union cavalry in the West got short shrift and not the best of the commanders or the weaponry that were commonly distributed to the Army of the Potomac's Cavalry Corps.

I welcome the discussion, but I would really prefer to keep this from being a "Forrest is great" thread, as that's not my object here.

Eric
Maybe so, but the largely untutored Forrest was able to perform tasks that no other Confederate General could do. His Command was not only largely successful in their many battles, but continued to grow in numbers until the final days of the war.
__________________
"Profanity is but a linguistic crutch for illiterate motherbleepers"
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 01 Jan 08, 23:16
Eric Wittenberg's Avatar
Eric Wittenberg Eric Wittenberg is offline
Lieutenant General
United_States
5 Year Service Ribbon 
 
Real Name: Eric J. Wittenberg
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Posts: 3,233
Eric Wittenberg is a jewel in the rough [500]
Eric Wittenberg is a jewel in the rough [500] Eric Wittenberg is a jewel in the rough [500] Eric Wittenberg is a jewel in the rough [500] Eric Wittenberg is a jewel in the rough [500] Eric Wittenberg is a jewel in the rough [500] Eric Wittenberg is a jewel in the rough [500] Eric Wittenberg is a jewel in the rough [500] Eric Wittenberg is a jewel in the rough [500] Eric Wittenberg is a jewel in the rough [500]
John,

I understand, but this is precisely what I don't want to get into here.

Eric
__________________
"If you want to have some fun, jine the cavalry"

Maj. Gen. James Ewell Brown Stuart
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 02 Jan 08, 01:18
holly6's Avatar
holly6 holly6 is offline
Brigadier General
United_States
5 Year Service Ribbon Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign 
 
Real Name: Hal
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: washington
Posts: 2,170
holly6 has a spectacular aura about [400] holly6 has a spectacular aura about [400] holly6 has a spectacular aura about [400] holly6 has a spectacular aura about [400] holly6 has a spectacular aura about [400] holly6 has a spectacular aura about [400] holly6 has a spectacular aura about [400] holly6 has a spectacular aura about [400] holly6 has a spectacular aura about [400] holly6 has a spectacular aura about [400] holly6 has a spectacular aura about [400] holly6 has a spectacular aura about [400] holly6 has a spectacular aura about [400] holly6 has a spectacular aura about [400] holly6 has a spectacular aura about [400]
Quote:
Originally Posted by EricWittenberg View Post
In the hope of steering discussion away from our pal Thomas Jefferson and his neo-Confederate rantings, let's instead focus on something interesting....

I've often said that part of the reason why I don't have a great deal of respect for Nathan Bedford Forrest is because, with the distinct exception of James H. Wilson at Selma, he always faced the second team.

Then, there was Wheeler, who enjoyed a modicum of success in spite of not being particularly talented. Wheeler faced pretty much every Union cavalry commander in the West, including the Eastern Theater retreads (he put a damned good whipping on Kilpatrick at Aiken, SC in February 1865).

I have some thoughts on the subject, but I would be interested in hearing why people think that, until Wilson's independent command was formed during the fall and winter of 1864-1865, the Union cavalry in the West got short shrift and not the best of the commanders or the weaponry that were commonly distributed to the Army of the Potomac's Cavalry Corps.

I welcome the discussion, but I would really prefer to keep this from being a "Forrest is great" thread, as that's not my object here.

Eric
Eric, thanks for the diversion. Without getting into the hard core cites which should follow, I'd have to go with Horace Greeley and his kind. I think that Lincoln had so many "irons in the fire", and the cabinet was so engrossed in the AOP, the early success of the Confederate Cavalry must be paid for with the disparagement of their Union counterpoints. The public focus of the times and, seemingly those of the present revolve around the East, the Western Cav. ends up being the poor step-child of the Ordinance Dept.. Iíll bet someone here will provide the production orders for carbines, and revolvers. Blades were in large supply.
While Wheeler and Forrest had success, I submit they were charged with a different op. order. Swashbuckling, slashing, operations would develop a completely different morale, than one of "eyes and ears".
My 2 cents.
(I now await the posts from my superiors)
__________________
My Avatar: Ivan W. Henderson Gunner/navigator B-25-26. 117 combat missions. Both Theaters. 11 confirmed kills. DSC.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 02 Jan 08, 07:32
grognard's Avatar
grognard grognard is online now
General
United_States
5 Year Service Ribbon March Offensive 100 Greatest Generals Winner, 2008 Most Decisive Battle Campaign, 2008 
Greatest/Best Tank of WW2 Campaign 
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Worcester MASS
Posts: 4,038
grognard has demonstrated strength of character [100] grognard has demonstrated strength of character [100] grognard has demonstrated strength of character [100] grognard has demonstrated strength of character [100] grognard has demonstrated strength of character [100] grognard has demonstrated strength of character [100] grognard has demonstrated strength of character [100] grognard has demonstrated strength of character [100] grognard has demonstrated strength of character [100] grognard has demonstrated strength of character [100] grognard has demonstrated strength of character [100]
Part of the problem in the west is that the union generals never used their cavalry the way it was used in the east. Neither Grant nor Sherman created a cavalry corps for AoT for instance. Rosecrans did not puish for a strong force that would act the way AoP or AoNV cavalry did.

Sherman did unleash his cavalry in 1864--with very mixed results.

The union did use cavalry for raids before 1864, but the only successful one was Grieson's, and he had no cavalry opposition. Grant and Rosecrans never went beyond that.

The most successful unit was the Lightning Brigade, and a big part of that was their self-bought repeaters.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 02 Jan 08, 15:41
R. Evans's Avatar
R. Evans R. Evans is offline
General of the Forums
United_States
5 Year Service Ribbon March Offensive Summer Campaign 100 Greatest Generals, 2008 
Most Decisive Battle Campaign, 2008 Greatest Westerns Campaign Greatest Spy Movies Campaign Greatest Blunders Campaign 
Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign 
 
Real Name: Bob Evans
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Salem, OH
Posts: 11,857
R. Evans has achieved enlightenment [1200+] R. Evans has achieved enlightenment [1200+] R. Evans has achieved enlightenment [1200+] R. Evans has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
R. Evans has achieved enlightenment [1200+] R. Evans has achieved enlightenment [1200+] R. Evans has achieved enlightenment [1200+] R. Evans has achieved enlightenment [1200+] R. Evans has achieved enlightenment [1200+] R. Evans has achieved enlightenment [1200+] R. Evans has achieved enlightenment [1200+] R. Evans has achieved enlightenment [1200+] R. Evans has achieved enlightenment [1200+] R. Evans has achieved enlightenment [1200+] R. Evans has achieved enlightenment [1200+] R. Evans has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
I would say that the reason the Union cavalry was usually bested was because the focus of the Union armies was on taking and holding towns, cities, positions, etc...whereas the Confederate cavalry was used for raiding supply lines, towns, cities, etc...the rebels not really having to worry about their supply lines as they were already in their home territory.

Wouldn't the Confederate cavalry look better by comparison by being able to always pick their time and place for a fight? The Union cavalry is tied down to guarding wagons, railroad track and suddenly here comes Forrest or whoever, swooping in and surprising everyone and then melting away or setting ambushes for the follow-up Union forces. I would like to see if the Confederate cavalry would've performed as well had the roles been reversed. Yes, I know about Morgan raiding Indiana and Ohio but he was eventually run to earth and captured so I would say his raid was a failure.(his surrender monument is only about 15 miles away)

I would say the Union cavalry performed about as well as could be expected given the circumstances.

Or am I completely off base? Let me know, I can take it.
__________________
I apologize for not revealing my true feelings. I apologize, sir, for not telling you sooner that you're a degenerate, sadistic old man. AND YOU CAN GO TO HELL BEFORE I APOLOGIZE TO YOU NOW OR EVER AGAIN!- Col. Dax
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 02 Jan 08, 16:22
D1J1's Avatar
D1J1 D1J1 is offline
General of the Forums
United_States
5 Year Service Ribbon Best Pin-Up Of World War II 
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Eastern US
Posts: 8,294
D1J1 has earned the respect of all [900] D1J1 has earned the respect of all [900]
D1J1 has earned the respect of all [900] D1J1 has earned the respect of all [900] D1J1 has earned the respect of all [900] D1J1 has earned the respect of all [900] D1J1 has earned the respect of all [900] D1J1 has earned the respect of all [900]
I'm waiting to read what those more learned than I have to say. I have a hard time judging a founder of the KKK objectively.

On the whole though I think the Union cavalry performed better as the war progressed in all theatres. Tradition, culture, economics and expectations for young men were more likely to lead youngsters from the south to this arm than those from the north. Thus a certain superiority could be supposed.

If we look at naval operations and the factors I cited above, the roles would probably be reversed in a majority of cases.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 02 Jan 08, 18:21
Cheetah772's Avatar
Cheetah772 Cheetah772 is offline
General of the Forums
United_States
ACG Ten Year Service Award 5 Year Service Ribbon March Offensive 
 
Real Name: Dan
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Silver Spring, Maryland
Posts: 6,961
Cheetah772 is simply cracking [600]
Cheetah772 is simply cracking [600] Cheetah772 is simply cracking [600] Cheetah772 is simply cracking [600] Cheetah772 is simply cracking [600] Cheetah772 is simply cracking [600] Cheetah772 is simply cracking [600] Cheetah772 is simply cracking [600] Cheetah772 is simply cracking [600] Cheetah772 is simply cracking [600] Cheetah772 is simply cracking [600] Cheetah772 is simply cracking [600]
Okay...

Maybe Union commanders should be blamed on how they used cavalry commanders?

This is perhaps a poor example, but look at Lee and Stuart. Stuart was effective not because he was very good it, but that Lee knew how to use him effectively. I think the fault should be on Lee's shoulders for failing to rein in Stuart as he went off riding around AOP during Gettysburg campaign.

A cavalry commander is only good as a proper tool, otherwise his talents and resources would be wasted.

Dan
__________________
Obama, "We don't have a strategy." (Press conference, 8/28/14)

So much for his intellectual superiority.

God help all of us.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 02 Jan 08, 19:49
Eric Wittenberg's Avatar
Eric Wittenberg Eric Wittenberg is offline
Lieutenant General
United_States
5 Year Service Ribbon 
 
Real Name: Eric J. Wittenberg
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Posts: 3,233
Eric Wittenberg is a jewel in the rough [500]
Eric Wittenberg is a jewel in the rough [500] Eric Wittenberg is a jewel in the rough [500] Eric Wittenberg is a jewel in the rough [500] Eric Wittenberg is a jewel in the rough [500] Eric Wittenberg is a jewel in the rough [500] Eric Wittenberg is a jewel in the rough [500] Eric Wittenberg is a jewel in the rough [500] Eric Wittenberg is a jewel in the rough [500] Eric Wittenberg is a jewel in the rough [500]
All good thoughts, guys. And I think that the answer incorporates all of it. See if you can wrap it all up into a bigger picture answer, and then I think you might have it.

Probably tomorrow, I will post my thoughts.

Eric
__________________
"If you want to have some fun, jine the cavalry"

Maj. Gen. James Ewell Brown Stuart
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 02 Jan 08, 19:55
Widow Maker's Avatar
Widow Maker Widow Maker is offline
Major
United_States
5 Year Service Ribbon 
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Taglios
Posts: 1,167
Widow Maker has demonstrated strength of character [100] Widow Maker has demonstrated strength of character [100] Widow Maker has demonstrated strength of character [100] Widow Maker has demonstrated strength of character [100] Widow Maker has demonstrated strength of character [100] Widow Maker has demonstrated strength of character [100] Widow Maker has demonstrated strength of character [100] Widow Maker has demonstrated strength of character [100] Widow Maker has demonstrated strength of character [100] Widow Maker has demonstrated strength of character [100]
Quote:
Originally Posted by D1J1 View Post
I'm waiting to read what those more learned than I have to say. I have a hard time judging a founder of the KKK objectively..
He is also the one who disbanded the KKK. I will not defend the KKK from either period but it must be remembered that the Klan passed away with the end of Reconstruction and Forrest's demand for its disbanding. Its purpose as he saw it was being perverted. Its resurrection in the 1900's as primarily a racist organization was national, not southern, and one of its greatest leaders was from the Mid-west. We all know what the Klan has evolved into by the 1950's and into today. Pandora has never been forgiven for opening the box and to an extent neither should Forrest. On the other hand unlike Pandora he did shut that box. It was reopened by others with agendas completely different than his own.



Quote:
Originally Posted by D1J1 View Post
On the whole though I think the Union cavalry performed better as the war progressed in all theatres. Tradition, culture, economics and expectations for young men were more likely to lead youngsters from the south to this arm than those from the north. Thus a certain superiority could be supposed.

If we look at naval operations and the factors I cited above, the roles would probably be reversed in a majority of cases..
That probably applies more to naval operations than land operations. The south did come up with success and inovations in the naval field also but most resources and leaders did lay with the Union.

On the land side I think that it is largely mistaken to say that the south out generaled the north. It is more a case that they had better generals in place at the beginning of the war or were fortunate with their early promotions. I'll skip the discussion of generals in general (ha) and just address Eric's cav emphasis. We always remember the CSA cav generals but we seem to discount the Union leaders. They are hard to find in 1861 and 1862but they are abundant from 1863 on. In other words... there they are for most of the war. Everyone seems to remember JEB Stuart and to a lesser extent Wheeler, Morgan, Forrest, and Rooney Lee. Other than JEB it seems that Buford, Sheridan, Custer, Geirson, Wilson are names at least as recognized by even casual CW readers. To that list a little reading will add Merrit, A.J. Smith, and even though unsuccessful Streight.
__________________
"Put guards on all the roads, and don't let the men run to the rear."
Major General John Buford's final words on his deathbed.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links

  #11  
Old 02 Jan 08, 22:00
grognard's Avatar
grognard grognard is online now
General
United_States
5 Year Service Ribbon March Offensive 100 Greatest Generals Winner, 2008 Most Decisive Battle Campaign, 2008 
Greatest/Best Tank of WW2 Campaign 
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Worcester MASS
Posts: 4,038
grognard has demonstrated strength of character [100] grognard has demonstrated strength of character [100] grognard has demonstrated strength of character [100] grognard has demonstrated strength of character [100] grognard has demonstrated strength of character [100] grognard has demonstrated strength of character [100] grognard has demonstrated strength of character [100] grognard has demonstrated strength of character [100] grognard has demonstrated strength of character [100] grognard has demonstrated strength of character [100] grognard has demonstrated strength of character [100]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Widow Maker View Post
He is also the one who disbanded the KKK. I will not defend the KKK from either period but it must be remembered that the Klan passed away with the end of Reconstruction and Forrest's demand for its disbanding. Its purpose as he saw it was being perverted. Its resurrection in the 1900's as primarily a racist organization was national, not southern, and one of its greatest leaders was from the Mid-west. We all know what the Klan has evolved into by the 1950's and into today. Pandora has never been forgiven for opening the box and to an extent neither should Forrest. On the other hand unlike Pandora he did shut that box. It was reopened by others with agendas completely different than his own.





That probably applies more to naval operations than land operations. The south did come up with success and inovations in the naval field also but most resources and leaders did lay with the Union.

On the land side I think that it is largely mistaken to say that the south out generaled the north. It is more a case that they had better generals in place at the beginning of the war or were fortunate with their early promotions. I'll skip the discussion of generals in general (ha) and just address Eric's cav emphasis. We always remember the CSA cav generals but we seem to discount the Union leaders. They are hard to find in 1861 and 1862but they are abundant from 1863 on. In other words... there they are for most of the war. Everyone seems to remember JEB Stuart and to a lesser extent Wheeler, Morgan, Forrest, and Rooney Lee. Other than JEB it seems that Buford, Sheridan, Custer, Geirson, Wilson are names at least as recognized by even casual CW readers. To that list a little reading will add Merrit, A.J. Smith, and even though unsuccessful Streight.
The south did not outgeneral the north overall, even in the beginning--look at Mill Springs, the struggle for Missouri, and even West Virginia: let alone Polk invading Kentucky before the Union did.

Basically, beforwe the 7 Days, the south had Ft. Sumter, Wilson's Creek and Bull Run, the North had all of the above plus Ft. Donaldson & Shiloh.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 03 Jan 08, 06:12
D1J1's Avatar
D1J1 D1J1 is offline
General of the Forums
United_States
5 Year Service Ribbon Best Pin-Up Of World War II 
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Eastern US
Posts: 8,294
D1J1 has earned the respect of all [900] D1J1 has earned the respect of all [900]
D1J1 has earned the respect of all [900] D1J1 has earned the respect of all [900] D1J1 has earned the respect of all [900] D1J1 has earned the respect of all [900] D1J1 has earned the respect of all [900] D1J1 has earned the respect of all [900]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Widow Maker View Post
That probably applies more to naval operations than land operations. The south did come up with success and inovations in the naval field also but most resources and leaders did lay with the Union.

On the land side I think that it is largely mistaken to say that the south out generaled the north. It is more a case that they had better generals in place at the beginning of the war or were fortunate with their early promotions. I'll skip the discussion of generals in general (ha) and just address Eric's cav emphasis. We always remember the CSA cav generals but we seem to discount the Union leaders. They are hard to find in 1861 and 1862but they are abundant from 1863 on. In other words... there they are for most of the war. Everyone seems to remember JEB Stuart and to a lesser extent Wheeler, Morgan, Forrest, and Rooney Lee. Other than JEB it seems that Buford, Sheridan, Custer, Geirson, Wilson are names at least as recognized by even casual CW readers. To that list a little reading will add Merrit, A.J. Smith, and even though unsuccessful Streight.
My point about army leadership does apply to the beginning of the war. I most certainly would not state that the south "out generaled" the north as a comprehensive statement. Sorry you drew that conclusion.

What I was saying was that the factors I listed made it far more likely for a young southern gentleman to serve than his northern counterpart. That created a situation where those individuals refined their talents in that regard.

My statements by no means were meant to indicate that the experience gap couldn't or wasn't overcome.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 03 Jan 08, 11:56
Pruitt's Avatar
Pruitt Pruitt is offline
General of the Forums
United_States
Distinguished Service Award 5 Year Service Ribbon March Offensive 100 Greatest Generals, 2008 
Most Decisive Battle Campaign, 2008 Greatest Westerns Campaign Greatest Blunders Campaign Summer Campaign 
Best Pin-Up Of World War II Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign 
 
Real Name: Richard Pruitt
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Sulphur, LA
Posts: 19,502
Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
I think that by the time Wilson made his raid into Alabama and took Selma, the Union had pretty well caught up on use of Cavalry. It takes time to create a good Cavalryman and the North took about three years. Most of the farmboys up North that knew horses, avoided service in the Cavalry.

Perhaps it is a measure of the Union commanders in the West that the most successful had a violent dislike of horses!

Confederate Cavalry in the West also fought differently. Most was in reality Mounted Infantry. I have also seen that there was occasion where the Confederates rode in on horseback firing their rifles! Not too accurate, but handy on raids. Forrest tended to favor dismounts.

Terrain also probably affected tactics. Campaigns in Central and East Tennessee funneled armies between the ridges. Until one reached certain areas, maneuver was easy to get around your opponent.

While Forrest and Wheeler get the most attention, some Brigadiers like Morgan did some fine work in penetration raids. Forrest was a hard school for his Yankee opponents! He separated the men from the boys on several occasions! Was it fair to even send those retreads from the East against him?

One last observation, is isn't it ironic that the best Yankee Cavalry Commander commanded Infantry in the West (Sheridan)?

Pruitt
__________________
Ted Nugent quote to the Troops: "It may be a week until deer hunting season, but its open season on a**holes all year long!"

Pruitt, you are truly an expert! Kelt06

Have you been struck by the jawbone of an ASS lately?
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 03 Jan 08, 21:20
Eric Wittenberg's Avatar
Eric Wittenberg Eric Wittenberg is offline
Lieutenant General
United_States
5 Year Service Ribbon 
 
Real Name: Eric J. Wittenberg
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Posts: 3,233
Eric Wittenberg is a jewel in the rough [500]
Eric Wittenberg is a jewel in the rough [500] Eric Wittenberg is a jewel in the rough [500] Eric Wittenberg is a jewel in the rough [500] Eric Wittenberg is a jewel in the rough [500] Eric Wittenberg is a jewel in the rough [500] Eric Wittenberg is a jewel in the rough [500] Eric Wittenberg is a jewel in the rough [500] Eric Wittenberg is a jewel in the rough [500] Eric Wittenberg is a jewel in the rough [500]
Anybody else care to weigh in before I give you my thoughts on this issue?

Eric
__________________
"If you want to have some fun, jine the cavalry"

Maj. Gen. James Ewell Brown Stuart
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 03 Jan 08, 21:40
grognard's Avatar
grognard grognard is online now
General
United_States
5 Year Service Ribbon March Offensive 100 Greatest Generals Winner, 2008 Most Decisive Battle Campaign, 2008 
Greatest/Best Tank of WW2 Campaign 
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Worcester MASS
Posts: 4,038
grognard has demonstrated strength of character [100] grognard has demonstrated strength of character [100] grognard has demonstrated strength of character [100] grognard has demonstrated strength of character [100] grognard has demonstrated strength of character [100] grognard has demonstrated strength of character [100] grognard has demonstrated strength of character [100] grognard has demonstrated strength of character [100] grognard has demonstrated strength of character [100] grognard has demonstrated strength of character [100] grognard has demonstrated strength of character [100]
I still "blame" the union generals because cavalry developed faster in the east than in the west despite the plethora of western farmboys in Grant's and Rosecrans' armies.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Please bookmark this thread if you enjoyed it!


Thread Tools
Display Modes



Forum Jump

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:05.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.