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Go Back   Armchair General and HistoryNet >> The Best Forums in History > Current Events > South Asia and World Terrorism

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South Asia and World Terrorism Discuss the War in Afghanistan, civil war in Pakistan, and events around the Indian sub-continent.

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  #31  
Old 07 Sep 09, 19:25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Imperial View Post
It will be a mix of 1 and 3, with 1 more the result of immigration than of conversion.
I believe you do not have an understanding of the scope. The West plays for keeps, that's why America leveled Germany and nuked Japan. When such time comes as we realize Muslims will never stop attacking us and use the 'moderates' as bullet shields, and it is us or them, there will be genocide. Whatever method, in the end, there will be no Islam, because we, and the Hindus of India will literally kill all of them in a generation. Nostradamus speaks to this in his third antichrist quatrains. While not a proof, it does indicate that Islam has fought a largely successful war against the West, and East, since it's inception and will continue until every last adherent old men, to young babes, is dead.

We cannot yet make the decision to out kill the Nazis and the Communists combined, but in the end we will do it. Because survival trumps all other considerations. This *crap* must stop. 1400 years is enough.
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  #32  
Old 07 Sep 09, 19:31
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The 19 terrorists were idiots. Two of the most hardcore (Nawaf Alhazmi & Khalid Almihdhar both Bosnia & Chechen Jihad veterans) attended the famous KL terror meeting, were on about every terror watch list in the world, not only flew into the USA with no probs but eventually listed themselves in the San Diego phone book!!
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  #33  
Old 08 Sep 09, 05:44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolery View Post
I believe you do not have an understanding of the scope. The West plays for keeps, that's why America leveled Germany and nuked Japan. When such time comes as we realize Muslims will never stop attacking us and use the 'moderates' as bullet shields, and it is us or them, there will be genocide.
But you fail to see that the West that went on to level Germany and nuke Japan as you say, is not the same with today's West. And the conflicts are not similar either.
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  #34  
Old 08 Sep 09, 09:17
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Right now you're correct....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Imperial View Post
But you fail to see that the West that went on to level Germany and nuke Japan as you say, is not the same with today's West. And the conflicts are not similar either.
However with sufficient motivation we can easily regain that "focus". Just the few weeks I've lived in Malaysia have reminded me how pernicuous and relentless Islam is. There is no meeting half way, unless it's a temporary thing due to local Islamic weakness. If Islam can "control" it will. That is the essence of the beast.
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  #35  
Old 08 Sep 09, 10:22
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It seems that people's memories are short. Certainly far shorter than mine when it comes to memorable historic events like the wanton destruction on 9/11 & just how bad it hurt the USA economy and divided the political parties even farther apart.

I hope those families who told President Bush, "Don't let the death of my son/husband/brother/daughter be for nothing" remind the rest of the Free World just exactly why their loved ones were in the military in the first place.
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  #36  
Old 08 Sep 09, 21:51
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The US response to the WTC attacks will go down as one of the biggest lost opportunities in history. All that fighting power squandered in Iraq and Afghanistan. When US tv news footage started with the 'we're at war!!' chant, it became obvious the the fix was in. No hard questions asked, just more of the same, simple solutions to complex problems, the usual spin,Islam is a religion of peace hijacked by a violent minority and Afghanistan and Iraq are the centres of terror. Such a lost opportunity.
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  #37  
Old 09 Sep 09, 05:10
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Lost opportunity? Seems to me that the military went through Iraq at a record pace which no other military anywhere in the world had done before. We are now partners with the country of Iraq in getting them established as a democratic nation with an economy which will support them?

In Afghanistan the die hard Taliban are still stubbornly trying to get their hold on power back where they can once again beat women, cut off arms, stone folks and castigate anyone who doesn't agree with them. To say the Taliban is winning is a myth. Fighting, yes, winning, no.
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  #38  
Old 09 Sep 09, 05:19
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Many people here still see this issue purely through a military viewpoint whilst failing to see it through a geo political viewpoint that it must be seen through as well.

As to Iraq. How successful we've been there, well the jury is still totally out to be honest. Im still not convinced of the need to go there in the first place and we'll have no idea of its place as a so called democratic arab nation for years to come after we leave that place.

We've got to get beyond an all military response. It will ultimately get us nowhere but bankrupcy court.
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  #39  
Old 09 Sep 09, 17:56
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Iraq is where the US war cycle finally died. Spend a trillion dollars and make Iran the regional superpower. Great strategic planning. Defeat Saddam ,inpart to secure Israel, then watch as Israel is pressured by Iran as never before.
Afghanistan is cancer. A small worthless fight that cant be abandoned as Bin Laden still breathes, the longer it is pursued the higher the chance that Pakistan goes worse. And all of this is on borrowed money. The big positive was that Libya abandoned its nuke program after the Iraq invasion. Saw in the news that nuke weapons seller A.Q.Kahan was just released from house arrest in Pakistan.
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  #40  
Old 09 Sep 09, 19:44
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Well I guess we could of used the cheapest options other than to just not go there but the world would of really hollered and screamed about that that one.
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  #41  
Old 10 Sep 09, 23:22
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In starting this thread I was taking a concept from the pages of Sun Tzu's "Art of War", essentially that one must know/understand one's enemy, what their motivations and values are, in order to understand what their goals are. Most thorough students of History, especially 'military history', will appreciate that how "Victory" is defined by one side is often not how the Other Side would define such. Hence "winning" isn't always as much about acheiving Your definition of Victory as it could be that of denying Him his definition of Victory.

That is my purpose here and what I hope to help others understand and apply. For slight elaboration and as a reminder, allow me to repeat my opening few paragraphs here;

Many in the West tend to think of the World's religions as essentially the same, idealogies with dieties attached, differring only in minor details. Those more studied in History, which may be the case of many here, come to realize the differences are greater, hence the reason why "religious differences" have been major causes of conflict throughout history. A people's religion has much to do with the shape of their culture and civilization and hence their view of the World/Cosmos and their place within such. The Religion of a Culture/Civilzation often becomes the main driver of their goals and dealings with other cultures/civilzations so a proper historical perspective requires an understanding of the substance and nuances of the religion of a culture/civilization in order to gauge who these people are and why they do what they do.

Many of us in the West used to have only a passing aquaintance with Islam, thinking of it as something similar to Judism or Christianity only with a different name for their Deity and a few quaint customs. After Sept. 11, 2001, some of us began to realize that perhaps we needed to look deeper into the substance of Islam. I know that was my case and the following will reflect some of that investigation of the past few years.

I'll present a mix of sources and materials from within Islam, for sake of getting it "from the horse's mouth" as one might say, as "pure" information as possible, as well as sources outside of Islam looking in from a Western [ non-muslim] perspective that hopefully helps bridge the conceptual gaps that exist between these two worlds, that presents Islamic concepts/dogma/scripture in a manner better grasped by 'the western mindset'. ~(minor editing of spelling for clarity, 9/10/'09 - GDB)
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  #42  
Old 11 Sep 09, 01:11
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Islam vs. National Socialism (NAZI)

Had the National Leaders of "The West" read "Mein Kamp" ( My Struggle/Battle) by Adolph Hitler, they might have understood what was in store, post 1933, with regard with NAZI Germany, likewise might National Leaders also understood what they faced post 9/11/2001 had they read and understood what was written by Islamic Jihad Leaders/Writters up to and after that date in History.

The NAZI movement in Germany, a German 'flavored' version of Madam Blavatsky's Theosophical Movement, ala Thule and Vril Socirty interpretations, shows a metaphysical/quasi-religious roots of beliefs and actions similar to Islam in application towards the rest of the world. Rather than 're-invent the wheel' I'll re-paste here something from page 2, post 20 of this thread;

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Muhammad "beleived" he was being spoken to by God/Allah and his messanger angel Gabriel. Whether this was objective true and real is something hard to prove, or disprove, but the key here is that Muhammad "believed" it true and acted accordingly. As did those who followed him then and afterward.

Same can be said for the numerous prophets and leaders of Judism. Same for the followers of Jesus Christ and his Apostles. Same for the followers of Budda who have deified him after his death.

Perhaps Muhammad, the Jewish prophets, Christ, Budda, etc. were hearing voices from a delusional subconscious mind. Maybe some being/entity on a level of sentience above and beyond our human one in the Cosmic scheme of Creation. Maybe those "voices" were just extra-terrestrial aliens using religion for machiavelian schemes of planetary conquest/population control-diversion. Whatever the ultimate "Real" source of the messages, whether "true" or "fake", the more important concern here with what I'm presenting is to illustrate the "what" of the True Believers as a means of understanding Why they do what they do.

Each of us operates from a matrix of mental/physical health thru cultural conditioning in forming our attitudes of what we have chosen to believe in. Our system of beliefs then forms a foundation of standards we live and act by. These concepts and principles then become our "truths" which we "believe in" because our scope of perspective sees them as "real" and "true" ilregardless of whether such is the case in an objective, outside perpsective or not. A "True Believing" Muslim (or Christian, or Buddist, or Liberal-Socialist, etc.) will "Believe" and act per those beliefs. Therefore, knowing the scope and scale of that "True Believers" religion/ideology is essential if one wishes to know and understand them and why they live and act as they do, and how they might predictably respond to a given situation.

In the case of the GWOT which is mostly a war against IslamicJihadism knowing the nature and substance of Islam, no matter how real or logical or not such a "belief system" is becomes essential if one wishes to "Know thy Enemy", a key component in knowing how to tactically and strategically react to the actions of one's enemy and predict that enemy's future actions and responses to your actions.

The Nazi movement in Germany of the 1920-1940's was a "true belief" system that appeared as a political movement when the Nazis came to power in 1933, but it had an ideology that was quasi-religious in it's origins in the beliefs/concepts of the Vril and Thule Societies in Germany in the decades prior. Though these would be considered meta-physical or "occult" mysticism by many, they were rooted in ages old cultural concepts held as "truth" by many Germans, hence the ready embrace of many Germans to the Nazi agenda. To the world outside of Germany, largely ignorant of the cultural beliefs the Nazi 'religion' was based upon, the Nazi ideology would appear as fake~unrealistic and illogical in an objective sense, but this view didn't stem the growth of the Nazi movement nor it's later political and global agenda and actions. A lack of knowledge and appreciation of the Nazi ideology tended to blind many in the West when they tried to negotiate and deal with "the Nazis" hence the West misjudged Germany's intentions and failed to react, let alone pro-act, to avoid what became a horrendous global conflict.

I see something very similar happening today as the World/West tries to deal with Islamo-Fascism~Jihad via the so-called GWOT-Global War On Terror(ism). Guess that makes a logical place for this article. The author has given it a rather misleading title: "The Nazi Roots of Modern Radical Islam", I think a more appropriate one would be along the lines of "Common Ideological Roots of Nazism and Modern Islamic Jihadism". Both share a disturbingly interwoven path during the first half of the 20th century;
http://www.sftt.org/dwa/2002/12/18/2.html
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  #43  
Old 11 Sep 09, 02:06
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A religion that views the World as two parts;

1) "The World of Islam" - Ruled by Shiria Law with no seperation of Church/State vs.

2) "The World of War(non-believers)"

... should make the point rather clear. Reading "Between the Lines" illustrates that we have a Religion set-up to assure "Forever War", mandated by it's Prime Deity and assuring that the only way to Better Rewards in Heaven is through being a Holy Warrior (Mujhadin) undertaking Holy War (Jihad)!

Hence events like Sept. 11, 2001 occur because;

1) Allah(Gawd) have commanded such conflict to occur as 'Holy Writ'!
2) The only Way towards better "Rewards in Heaven" is via such Holy Way (Jihad)!

This leaves the (non-Islamic) World with a 'Catch 22' of sorts where as long as the current version of Islam exists, perpetual warfare is guaranteed.

Since Muhammad claimed to be the last and Final Prophet, with no redress/revisions allowed, than his message remains "Final"; = eternal
conflict with non-believers/non-Muslims until all are converted or Judgement Day arrives!

To the West/rest of the Non-Muslim World, choice remains; either put-up with such, or seek an avenue of major restructure (of Islam).

BTW, a reminder that in Arabic, Islam means Submit/Surrender ~ a clue to it's Fundementalist nature/appeal.
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  #44  
Old 11 Sep 09, 06:01
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Islam is:

1) Denial
2) Profound distrust
3) Rage
4) Terror
5) Death

This is Islam in a nutshell.
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Old 11 Sep 09, 06:41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MonsterZero View Post
Islam is:

1) Denial
2) Profound distrust
3) Rage
4) Terror
5) Death

This is Islam in a nutshell.
Of course its all so straightforward isnt it.
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