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| World War II Discuss WW2. . |
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01 Aug 07, 03:33
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: 53° 0'37.18"N, 18°36'17.15"E
Posts: 27
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Warsaw Uprising 63rd Anniversary
"Michl's Palace, Zytnia, Wola,
It is defended by the boys from "The Umbrella",
Who have the vis guns against "tigers"-
These are Warsaw boys, nice guys! [...]"
The Warsaw Uprising was probably the largest single operation organized and executed by a partisan organization in WWII. It lasted two months, and when it was over, 200,000 people were dead, and the entire city was in ruins. In trying to achieve its goals, the uprising was a terrible failure. In showing the courage and the dedication of the Polish nation, it was a remarkable success.
http://www.princeton.edu/~poland/uprising/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warsaw_Uprising
http://www.warsawuprising.com/
http://www.1944.pl/index.php?lang=en |
01 Aug 07, 05:15
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: On your Six!!
Posts: 13,529
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Here here. I have a great admiration for the Poles in the second world war and the uprising in warsaw was extremely couragous against overwhelming odds. As an Englishman I am very much aware of the involvement of Poles in the RAF in the Battle of Britain aswell as polish troops who fought with my grandfather at Monte Cassino aswell as other places like Arnhem.
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01 Aug 07, 06:33
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Real Name: Marek "Mark" Pajak
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Northern Illinois
Posts: 8,908
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kovalski
"Michl's Palace, Zytnia, Wola,
It is defended by the boys from "The Umbrella",
Who have the vis guns against "tigers"-
These are Warsaw boys, nice guys! [...]"
The Warsaw Uprising was probably the largest single operation organized and executed by a partisan organization in WWII. It lasted two months, and when it was over, 200,000 people were dead, and the entire city was in ruins. In trying to achieve its goals, the uprising was a terrible failure. In showing the courage and the dedication of the Polish nation, it was a remarkable success.
http://www.princeton.edu/~poland/uprising/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warsaw_Uprising
http://www.warsawuprising.com/
http://www.1944.pl/index.php?lang=en |
Czolem Rodaku. Powstancy strzelali do nie tej armii to ktorej trzeba bylo. Lepiej bylo by podpisac pakt z diablem hitlerowskim i podjac walke z Sowietami wkraczajacymi aby okupowac Polske i wprowadzac ustroj komunistyczny. Niemcy dali by bron. Miasto zostalo by zniszczone przez artylerie Sowiecka ale walka przeszla by do histori. Takie polskie podziekowanie za Katyn i za Golgote naszego narodu na Syberii. Byc moze opor Sowietom dal by Aliantom Zachodnim wiecej czasu na zajecie calych Niemiec, Czech, Wegier, byc moze skrawka polski.
Nawet teraz odczuwamy efekty komunizmu bo przeciez jest diaspora narodu polskiego i wielu najlepszych musialo wyjechac z Polski wynisczonej przez socjalizm w poszukiwaniu pracy po calym swiecie. Z mojej paczki z ktora sie wychowalem w Polsce w latach 80tych pozostal w kraju tylko jeden czlowiek ktory jest chory.
__________________
"Man is a military animal, glories in gunpowder, and loves parade."
--P. J. Bailey, British poet
Last edited by MonsterZero; 01 Aug 07 at 06:58..
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01 Aug 07, 07:14
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Moscow
Posts: 1,822
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MonsterZero
Czolem Rodaku. Powstancy strzelali do nie tej armii to ktorej trzeba bylo. Lepiej bylo by podpisac pakt z diablem hitlerowskim i podjac walke z Sowietami wkraczajacymi aby okupowac Polske i wprowadzac ustroj komunistyczny. Niemcy dali by bron. Miasto zostalo by zniszczone przez artylerie Sowiecka ale walka przeszla by do histori. Takie polskie podziekowanie za Katyn i za Golgote naszego narodu na Syberii. Byc moze opor Sowietom dal by Aliantom Zachodnim wiecej czasu na zajecie calych Niemiec, Czech, Wegier, byc moze skrawka polski.
Nawet teraz odczuwamy efekty komunizmu bo przeciez jest diaspora narodu polskiego i wielu najlepszych musialo wyjechac z Polski wynisczonej przez socjalizm w poszukiwaniu pracy po calym swiecie. Z mojej paczki z ktora sie wychowalem w Polsce w latach 80tych pozostal w kraju tylko jeden czlowiek ktory jest chory.
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Que? |
01 Aug 07, 18:02
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Real Name: Marek "Mark" Pajak
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Northern Illinois
Posts: 8,908
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Egorka
Que?
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You know the answer to that question better than anyone else. The only thing I can say in defense of Russia is that today's Russia is not Stalin's USSR. Back in 1944 the Soviet entry into Poland and its westward advance brought Europe to the brink of a catastrophe a lot worse than Blitzkrieg. Europe was devastated by the war and would have not resisted a Soviet advance on Paris. The only thing that saved Europe from WW III was the fact that the Americans had atomic weapons and they stood fast in West Germany. Stalin lost heart and had to leave it to his successors to finish off Europe.
__________________
"Man is a military animal, glories in gunpowder, and loves parade."
--P. J. Bailey, British poet
Last edited by MonsterZero; 01 Aug 07 at 18:10..
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02 Aug 07, 07:55
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Moscow
Posts: 1,822
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MonsterZero
You know the answer to that question better than anyone else. The only thing I can say in defense of Russia is that today's Russia is not Stalin's USSR. Back in 1944 the Soviet entry into Poland and its westward advance brought Europe to the brink of a catastrophe a lot worse than Blitzkrieg. Europe was devastated by the war and would have not resisted a Soviet advance on Paris. The only thing that saved Europe from WW III was the fact that the Americans had atomic weapons and they stood fast in West Germany. Stalin lost heart and had to leave it to his successors to finish off Europe.
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Hi,
Well, I will not comment on this obviously very emotional post.
With my question in Spanish I wanted to remind you that it is an English epeaking forum. That is it.
I did not practicaly understand anything of what you replied in Polish so I asked you in Spanish. Comprende? Forstår du mig nu?
Regards
Igor |
02 Aug 07, 23:51
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Real Name: Marek "Mark" Pajak
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Northern Illinois
Posts: 8,908
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I should have sent him a personal msg. Sorry Egorka, you're right on this one.
__________________
"Man is a military animal, glories in gunpowder, and loves parade."
--P. J. Bailey, British poet
Last edited by MonsterZero; 02 Aug 07 at 23:54..
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03 Aug 07, 05:45
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Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: moscow, russia
Posts: 5,240
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MonsterZero
... Back in 1944 the Soviet...westward advance brought Europe to the brink of a catastrophe a lot worse than Blitzkrieg...
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you mean - it would have had been better if Hitler won, back then ?? |
03 Aug 07, 09:18
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Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: KGNW
Posts: 1,240
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stalin
you mean - it would have had been better if Hitler won, back then ??
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There is no much differences between pest and typhus i think. 
The God, while looking at the Earth, speaking to an angel:
"Let's make a joke to these Poles and put them between Germans and Russians" |
03 Aug 07, 09:27
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Moscow
Posts: 1,822
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MonsterZero
I should have sent him a personal msg. Sorry Egorka, you're right on this one.
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That is OK!  |
03 Aug 07, 09:37
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Real Name: Marek "Mark" Pajak
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Northern Illinois
Posts: 8,908
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stalin
you mean - it would have had been better if Hitler won, back then ??
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No. What I mean is it would have been better if the Soviets stopped after liberating Russia allowing Western allies to move further West. Hitler would have been finished off by Gen. George Patton.
__________________
"Man is a military animal, glories in gunpowder, and loves parade."
--P. J. Bailey, British poet
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03 Aug 07, 09:39
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Moscow
Posts: 1,822
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MonsterZero
Czolem Rodaku. Powstancy strzelali do nie tej armii to ktorej trzeba bylo. Lepiej bylo by podpisac pakt z diablem hitlerowskim i podjac walke z Sowietami wkraczajacymi aby okupowac Polske i wprowadzac ustroj komunistyczny. Niemcy dali by bron. Miasto zostalo by zniszczone przez artylerie Sowiecka ale walka przeszla by do histori. Takie polskie podziekowanie za Katyn i za Golgote naszego narodu na Syberii. Byc moze opor Sowietom dal by Aliantom Zachodnim wiecej czasu na zajecie calych Niemiec, Czech, Wegier, byc moze skrawka polski.
Nawet teraz odczuwamy efekty komunizmu bo przeciez jest diaspora narodu polskiego i wielu najlepszych musialo wyjechac z Polski wynisczonej przez socjalizm w poszukiwaniu pracy po calym swiecie. Z mojej paczki z ktora sie wychowalem w Polsce w latach 80tych pozostal w kraju tylko jeden czlowiek ktory jest chory.
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Hi again! 
I have tried to read your post in Polish. As understand you say that Polish uprisers " shot at the wrong army".
Well, let me say that eben though I disagree with you completely, I understand your feelings. Not to dishonor the participants and the civil victims of the uprising, but it was wrong to start it back then. It had no chances of success for different reasons.
Secondly you say " it was better to sigh an agrrement with the Hitler Devil". As I know that is what Polish goverment was trying to pursue in the 1930s.
As I know Poland actually proposed France a preventive strike into Germany in app 1932. But France took it as a provocation and compromised Mr.Beck. After that misfortune with France Poland seeked accord with Hitler. Chances are that insted of Molotov-Ribbentrop pact we couls had end up with Beck-Ribbentrop pact.
Please do nto take my words as a provocation...
Regards
Igor
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03 Aug 07, 09:42
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Moscow
Posts: 1,822
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MonsterZero
No. What I mean is it would have been better if the Soviets stopped after liberating Russia allowing Western allies to move further West. Hitler would have been finished off by Gen. George Patton.
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Well... better for who?
You know the world is very complex thing, unfortunately. Better for one - worse for the other...
And I am not sure Poles would want to stop in the similar situation. |
03 Aug 07, 10:35
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Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: KGNW
Posts: 1,240
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In fact of siege of Warsaw in 1939, jewish uprising in ghetto, and Uprising in 1944 city were destroyed in 85%.
Quote:
Estimate calculations involved real estate within the city's 1939 boundaries, with a special focus on historic buildings, urban infrastructure and municipal and private movables. No estimates, in turn, were conducted to determine the value of lost lives and health of Warsaw residents.
Material losses incurred by Warsaw and its inhabitants have been estimated at zl.18.20 billion at the zloty's value as of August 1939, which according to today's exchange rates amounts to $45.3 billion. The figure was calculated with an exchange rate of $1=zl.5.31, according to rates in 1939 and in line with the assumption that the actual value of the dollar in 1939 was 13.24 times that of today.
According to the commission, the figures it obtained would have been higher by 2-3 percent if they had included furnishing losses in state offices, city hospitals, scientific institutes, libraries, archives and museums. A detailed analysis of lost tax income and business production in the city would also have raised the estimates.
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03 Aug 07, 11:29
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Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: KGNW
Posts: 1,240
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