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Go Back   Armchair General and HistoryNet >> The Best Forums in History > Forum Resources > Armchair Attacks! > Summer Campaign 2007

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Summer Campaign 2007 Summer 2007 Tournament.

View Poll Results: Who would you vote for?
Sobieski 65 68.42%
Charles 30 31.58%
Voters: 95. You may not vote on this poll

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  #1  
Old 03 Jul 07, 15:44
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Sobieski vs Charles (Round 2)

Jan Sobieski

Jan III Sobieski (17 August 1629 - 17 June 1696; English: John III Sobieski ), one of the most notable monarchs of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth, was the King of Poland and Grand Duke of Lithuania from 1674 until his death. Sobieski's 22-year-reign was marked by a period of the Commonwealth's stabilisation, much needed after the turmoil of the Deluge and Chmielnicki's Uprising. Popular among his subjects, he was also a brilliant military commander, most famous for his victory over the Turks in the 1683 Battle of Vienna. For his victories over the Ottoman Empire, he was dubbed by the Turks the "Lion of Lehistan."

Charles, The Bold

Charles the Bold or Charles the Rash (French: Charles le Téméraire)[1], also Charles, Duke of Burgundy (21 November 1433 – 5 January 1477) was Duke of Burgundy from 1467 to 1477. Known as Charles the Terrible to his detractors[citation needed], he was the last Valois Duke of Burgundy and his early death was a pivotal, if under-recognised, moment in European history. After his death, his domains began an inevitable slide towards division between France and the Habsburgs (who through marriage to his heiress Mary of Burgundy became his heirs). Neither side was satisfied with the results and the disintegration of the Burgundian state was a factor in most major wars in Western Europe for over two centuries.
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  #2  
Old 05 Jul 07, 09:26
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Terrible Chuck must win!
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  #3  
Old 05 Jul 07, 09:31
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Charlie again.
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  #4  
Old 05 Jul 07, 10:09
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Still Bold
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  #5  
Old 05 Jul 07, 10:17
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The last representative of the feudal spirit—a man who possessed no other quality than a blind bravery. Charles it is...
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  #6  
Old 05 Jul 07, 10:23
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I would think that Sobieski would represent the last of chivalry.

Sobieski is it.
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  #7  
Old 05 Jul 07, 13:32
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Just see my signature..
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  #8  
Old 05 Jul 07, 13:56
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Sobieski makes the Bold, cold!
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  #9  
Old 05 Jul 07, 14:20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marshal Murat View Post
I would think that Sobieski would represent the last of chivalry.

Sobieski is it.
if by that you mean courage.....nah Davout did that at Auerstadt as well..........


besides the 'perfection of chivalry' ain't worth a damn unless ya lose anyway and was overated by Blondel de Nesle.
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  #10  
Old 05 Jul 07, 14:48
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I know a good name when I hear one. King John it is. Were would Europe be if all the funoIslamo's won at Vienna.

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  #11  
Old 05 Jul 07, 18:05
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Okay...... This is a poll how?

Now first off let me say that I have great respect with Charles the Bold, and he was in fact seriously cool as far as his military feats went... But how can you compare him to Jan III Sobieski?!

I mean this was one of the greatest kings of the 17th Century we are talking about here. And his military exploits were brilliant, and I am not talking about just Vienna, but his wars on a whole. And his military reforms, especially in regards to the cavalry and artillery. Jan III was a truly formidible commander, he should win this.

Win the poll for the Grand Pole!
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  #12  
Old 05 Jul 07, 20:12
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I hadn't spent any time studying on either one before the Armchair Attacks, but Sobieski gets the nod.
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  #13  
Old 06 Jul 07, 00:21
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MISTER Sobieski to you...!
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  #14  
Old 06 Jul 07, 09:59
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Had sobieski to win over Charles
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  #15  
Old 06 Jul 07, 11:32
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Ok - I had Guie beating Jan in the first round - but I did have Chuck winning the first round and this one... I still think he would prevail... Although I think wikipedia is going to Kill Charles - 5 1/2 total lines... over 4 about his death and the break-up of his empire!

I still think he can pull this one off!
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