Saladin vs. Cromwell (Round 2)

[CyberRanger]

Here are some facts for each player to help you in your voting (From Wikipedia):

Saladin

Salahuddin Al-Ayyubi known also as Saladin or Salah al-Din Yusuf (c. 1138 - March 4, 1193), Sultan of Egypt and Syria, was a 12th-century Kurdish[1][2][3] Muslim general and warrior from Tikrit, in present day northern Iraq. He founded the Ayyubid dynasty of Egypt, Syria, Yemen (except for the Northern Mountains), Mesopotamia, Mecca, Hejaz and Diyar Bakr. Although he is known worldwide as Saladin, his given name was Yusuf--an Arabic equivalent to the English name "Joseph."[4]

Cromwell

Oliver Cromwell (25 April 1599 – 3 September 1658) was an English military and political leader best known for his involvement in making England into a republican Commonwealth and for his later role as Lord Protector of England, Scotland and Ireland. He was a mid-gentry yeoman farmer for the first forty years of his life; a religious conversion experience made religion the central fact of his life and actions. A brilliant soldier (called "Old Ironsides") he rose from the ranks to command the army. Politically he took control of England, Scotland, and Ireland as Lord Protector, from December 16, 1653 until his death. Cromwell was once a very controversial figure in English history—a regicidal dictator to some historians (such as David Hume and Christopher Hill) and a hero of liberty to others (such as Thomas Carlyle and Samuel Rawson Gardiner). In Ireland, where his measures against Irish Catholics have been characterised by many historians as genocidal or near-genocidal[1][2][3][4] he and his memory are widely despised[5][6][7][8].

[Post Captain]

Cromwell again for me.

[Boonierat]

Originally Posted by mike brown

Cromwell again for me.

Cromwell as well.

[Centrix Vigilis]

Saladin flower of the warrior Islam.

[Pergite]

Cromewll mostly fought amatueres, Saladin had to take on Europes finest, as long as the rest of his neighborhood.

[Marshal Murat]

Saladin!

Allahu Akhbar
Allahu Akhbar

Salah-din!

[Shogun 144]

I voted Cromwell.

Salah ad-Din is seriously overrated in my opinion, both by his own adversaries and by us in the modern day. Hollywood doesn't help either by puffing him up. Cromwell was the better commander of the two. Period.

I just don't think there is comparsion. Cromwell was a better field commander and tactician then Salah ad-Din ever was.

Vote Wart!

[Marshal Murat]

I'd give Cromwell his due, but Salah-din was better. He not only re-captured Jerusalem, but he didn't massacre the entire population.

I think that Saladin not only defeated the Crusaders, he united most of the Middle East, from Cairo to Baghdad. Amassed the varied armies. Defeated the Crusaders and preserved the peace.

[Tankboy]

Again I must say:
SPOKEN: THE MOST INTERESTING THING ABOUT KING CHARLES I IS THAT HE WAS 5'6" TALL AT THE START OF HIS REIGN, BUT ONLY 4'8" TALL AT THE END OF IT...
BECAUSE OF...
Oliver Cromwell, Lord Protector of England
PURITAN
Born in 1599 and died in 1658
SEPTEMBER
Was at first
ONLY
MP for Huntingdon
BUT THEN
He led the Ironside Cavalry at Marston Moor in 1644 and won.
Then he founded the New Model Army
And praise be, beat the Cavaliers at Naseby
And the King fled up North like a bat to the Scots. SPOKEN: BUT UNDER THE TERMS OF JOHN PYM'S SOLEMN LEAGUE AND COVENANT, THE SCOTS HANDED KING CHARLES I OVER TO...
Oliver Cromwell, Lord Protector of England
AND HIS WARTS
Born in 1599 and died in 1658
SEPTEMBER
But alas
OY VEY!
Disagreement then broke out
BETWEEN
The Presbyterian Parliament and the Military who meant
To have an Independent bent.
And so...the Second Civil War broke out
And the Roundhead ranks
Faced the Cavaliers at Preston Lancs
And the King lost again, silly thing
STUPID GIT
SPOKEN: AND CROMWELL SEND COLONEL PRIDE TO PURGE THE HOUSE OF COMMONS OF THE PRESBYTERIAN ROYALISTS LEAVING BEHIND ONLY THE RUMP PARLIAMENT...
Which appointed a High Court at Westminster Hall
To indict Charles I for...tyranny
OOOOHHH!
Charles was sentenced to death
Even though he refused to accept that the court had...jurisdiction
SAY GOODBYE TO HIS HEAD
Poor King Charles laid his head on the block
JANUARY 1649
Down came the axe, and...
SPOKEN: IN THE SILENCE THAT FOLLOWED, THE ONLY SOUND THAT COULD BE HEARD WAS A SOLITARY GIGGLE, FROM...
Oliver Cromwell, Lord Protector of England
OLE
Born in 1599 and died in 1658
SEPTEMBER
Then he smashed
IRELAND
Set up the Commonwealth
AND MORE
He crushed the Scots at Worcester
And beat the Dutch at sea
In 1653 and then
He dissolved the Rump Parliament
And with Lambert's consent
Wrote the Instrument of Government
Under which Oliver was Protector at last
The End!

[Tankboy]

What would be a good battle would be Saladin vs. Richard I.

Like to see how that turned out.

[Shogun 144]

I applaud the above statement!

A second reason I wanted to post here though is the much vaunted... 'mercy' of Salah ad-Din.

Let me use Jerusalem here as the prime example:

When Jerusalem was about to fall Salah ad-Din sent a letter to the defenders of Jerusalem stating his intention to kill every living thing in the city when it fell. To Salah ad-Din it was only fitting, the Crusaders did it when they took the city nearly a century before, so he could do it to them. What changed his mind was when Balian d'Ibelien sent a answer back in which he said that unless the Muslims showed mercy to Jerusalem, he would kill every last one of them in the city and then destory the Dome of the Rock and Al-Aqsa Mosque. After some deliberation, and much persausion on the part of his advisors, Salah ad-Din agreed. However he added a condition, that only those Christians that could pay their ransom would be spared. All those that could pay were shown mercy. Those that could not pay were enslaved.

EDIT: Looks like I took to long to make this post. The post I applauded was Tankboy's first post listing Cromwell's acheivements.

[R. Evans]

Cromwell, because Saladin should never have beaten Bolivar!

[Centrix Vigilis]

i know the feeling ref Giap....... what a miscarriage of justice...









as i view it......

[Pruitt]

If you dudes did not like Nathan Bedford Forrest and thought he did some horrible things, why would you vote for Cromwell? He did worse in Ireland, Yorkshire and Scotland.

Pruitt

[Marshal Murat]

In July 1187, Saladin conquered most of the Kingdom of Jerusalem. On July 4, 1187, he faced at the Battle of Hattin the combined forces Guy of Lusignan, King consort of Jerusalem, and Raymond III of Tripoli. In the battle alone the Crusader army was largely annihilated by the motivated army of Saladin in what was a major disaster for the Crusaders and a turning point in the history of the Crusades

The area is called the Horns of Hattin for the two rocky peaks that rise over the brush covered slopes behind Tiberius on the Sea of Galilee. It was here that Saladin aligned 12,000 of his knights plus an army carrying regular provisions at Tiberius. An army as well mounted and armed as anything that could be assembled by the combined forces of the Templar and Hospitaller orders. On the other side of the battlefield were the crusading forces comprised of 20,000 foot soldiers but only about 1,000 knights. This force, small by comparison, was assembled by depleting the forces of many surrounding cities thus leaving the unarmed cities open to attack.

(Wikipedia #1. Templar History #2 )

Saladin should win this.

I really hating having to vote between the two.