HistoryNet.com RSS
ArmchairGeneral.com RSS

HistoryNet.com Articles
America's Civil War
American History
Aviation History
British Heritage
Civil War Times
MHQ
Military History
Vietnam
Wild West
World War II

ACG Online
ACG Magazine
Stuff We Like
War College
History News
Tactics 101
Carlo D'Este
Books

ACG Gaming
Boardgames
PC Game Reviews

ACG Network
Contact Us
Our Newsletter
Meet Our Staff
Advertise With Us

Sites We Support
HistoryNet.com
Once A Marine
The Art of Battle
Game Squad
Mil. History Podcast
Russian Army - WW2
Achtung Panzer!
Mil History Online

Go Back   Armchair General and HistoryNet >> The Best Forums in History > Forum Resources > Armchair Attacks! > Summer Campaign 2007

Notices and Announcements

Summer Campaign 2007 Summer 2007 Tournament.

View Poll Results: Who would you vote for?
Saladin 59 56.19%
Cromwell 46 43.81%
Voters: 105. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 03 Jul 07, 15:25
CyberRanger's Avatar
CyberRanger CyberRanger is offline
ACG Web Tech Command
Armchair_General
Distinguished Service Award 5 Year Service Ribbon ACG Ten Year Service Award March Offensive 
Summer Campaign 100 Greatest Generals, 2008 Most Decisive Battle Campaign, 2008 Best Pin-Up Of World War II 
 
Real Name: Brent
Join Date: May 2003
Location: NC, USA
Posts: 3,261
CyberRanger has demonstrated strength of character [100] CyberRanger has demonstrated strength of character [100] CyberRanger has demonstrated strength of character [100] CyberRanger has demonstrated strength of character [100] CyberRanger has demonstrated strength of character [100] CyberRanger has demonstrated strength of character [100] CyberRanger has demonstrated strength of character [100] CyberRanger has demonstrated strength of character [100] CyberRanger has demonstrated strength of character [100] CyberRanger has demonstrated strength of character [100]
Saladin vs. Cromwell (Round 2)

Here are some facts for each player to help you in your voting (From Wikipedia):

Saladin

Salahuddin Al-Ayyubi known also as Saladin or Salah al-Din Yusuf (c. 1138 - March 4, 1193), Sultan of Egypt and Syria, was a 12th-century Kurdish[1][2][3] Muslim general and warrior from Tikrit, in present day northern Iraq. He founded the Ayyubid dynasty of Egypt, Syria, Yemen (except for the Northern Mountains), Mesopotamia, Mecca, Hejaz and Diyar Bakr. Although he is known worldwide as Saladin, his given name was Yusuf--an Arabic equivalent to the English name "Joseph."[4]

Cromwell

Oliver Cromwell (25 April 1599 – 3 September 1658) was an English military and political leader best known for his involvement in making England into a republican Commonwealth and for his later role as Lord Protector of England, Scotland and Ireland. He was a mid-gentry yeoman farmer for the first forty years of his life; a religious conversion experience made religion the central fact of his life and actions. A brilliant soldier (called "Old Ironsides") he rose from the ranks to command the army. Politically he took control of England, Scotland, and Ireland as Lord Protector, from December 16, 1653 until his death. Cromwell was once a very controversial figure in English history—a regicidal dictator to some historians (such as David Hume and Christopher Hill) and a hero of liberty to others (such as Thomas Carlyle and Samuel Rawson Gardiner). In Ireland, where his measures against Irish Catholics have been characterised by many historians as genocidal or near-genocidal[1][2][3][4] he and his memory are widely despised[5][6][7][8].
Reply With Quote
Facebook Connect and Magazine Promotions

World War II Magazine
$26.95

Armchair General Magazine
$26.95
Military History Magazine
$26.95
  #2  
Old 05 Jul 07, 09:29
Post Captain's Avatar
Post Captain Post Captain is online now
ACG Forums - Field Marshal
England
Distinguished Service Award 5 Year Service Ribbon Summer Campaign 100 Greatest Generals, 2008 
Most Decisive Battle Campaign, 2008 SPQR Campaign Greatest Spy Movies Campaign Greatest Blunders Campaign 
Best Pin-Up Of World War II 
 
Real Name: Mickey
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Portsmouth
Posts: 6,459
Post Captain has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Post Captain has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Post Captain has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Post Captain has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Post Captain has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Post Captain has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Post Captain has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Post Captain has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Post Captain has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Cromwell again for me.
__________________
All the business of war, and indeed all the business of life, is to endeavour to find out what you don't know by what you do; that's what I called "guessing what was at the other side of the hill."
Wellington
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 05 Jul 07, 09:30
Boonierat's Avatar
Boonierat Boonierat is offline
Marshal of ACG - XO
South_Vietnam
Distinguished Service Award 5 Year Service Ribbon ACG Ten Year Service Award March Offensive 
Summer Campaign 100 Greatest Generals, 2008 Most Decisive Battle Campaign, 2008 Model Forum Group Build 
Greatest Westerns Campaign Greatest Spy Movies Campaign Greatest Blunders Campaign Best Pin-Up Of World War II 
 
Real Name: Stephane Moutin-Luyat
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Semi-retired
Posts: 15,950
Boonierat has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Boonierat has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Boonierat has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Boonierat has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Boonierat has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Boonierat has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Boonierat has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Boonierat has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Boonierat has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Boonierat has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Boonierat has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Boonierat has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Boonierat has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Boonierat has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Boonierat has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Boonierat has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Boonierat has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Boonierat has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Quote:
Originally Posted by mike brown View Post
Cromwell again for me.

Cromwell as well.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 05 Jul 07, 10:11
Centrix Vigilis's Avatar
Centrix Vigilis Centrix Vigilis is offline
Banned
United_States
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Artesia-Roswell-Dulce NM
Posts: 8,153
Centrix Vigilis is a glorious beacon of light [700]
Centrix Vigilis is a glorious beacon of light [700] Centrix Vigilis is a glorious beacon of light [700] Centrix Vigilis is a glorious beacon of light [700] Centrix Vigilis is a glorious beacon of light [700] Centrix Vigilis is a glorious beacon of light [700] Centrix Vigilis is a glorious beacon of light [700] Centrix Vigilis is a glorious beacon of light [700] Centrix Vigilis is a glorious beacon of light [700] Centrix Vigilis is a glorious beacon of light [700] Centrix Vigilis is a glorious beacon of light [700] Centrix Vigilis is a glorious beacon of light [700] Centrix Vigilis is a glorious beacon of light [700] Centrix Vigilis is a glorious beacon of light [700] Centrix Vigilis is a glorious beacon of light [700]
Saladin flower of the warrior Islam.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 05 Jul 07, 10:22
Pergite's Avatar
Pergite Pergite is offline
Brigadier General
Sweden
5 Year Service Ribbon Summer Campaign 
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: The temperate climate zone
Posts: 2,116
Pergite is walking in the light [200] Pergite is walking in the light [200] Pergite is walking in the light [200] Pergite is walking in the light [200] Pergite is walking in the light [200] Pergite is walking in the light [200] Pergite is walking in the light [200] Pergite is walking in the light [200] Pergite is walking in the light [200] Pergite is walking in the light [200] Pergite is walking in the light [200] Pergite is walking in the light [200]
Cromewll mostly fought amatueres, Saladin had to take on Europes finest, as long as the rest of his neighborhood.
__________________
"The secret of war lies in the communications" - Napoleon Bonaparte
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 05 Jul 07, 10:25
Marshal Murat's Avatar
Marshal Murat Marshal Murat is offline
Second Lieutenant
United_States
5 Year Service Ribbon March Offensive Summer Campaign 
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Somewhere between Miami and Atlanta
Posts: 413
Marshal Murat is on the path to success [1-99] Marshal Murat is on the path to success [1-99] Marshal Murat is on the path to success [1-99] Marshal Murat is on the path to success [1-99]
Saladin!

Allahu Akhbar
Allahu Akhbar

Salah-din!
__________________
For despite the silly sayings about violence never settling anything, history IS changed on the battlefield: ask the National Socialist German Workers' Party.
-Jerry Pournelle-
Introduction to 'Hammer's Slammers'
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 05 Jul 07, 10:45
Shogun 144's Avatar
Shogun 144 Shogun 144 is offline
Private First Class
United_States
Summer Campaign 
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Northeastern Michigan
Posts: 29
Shogun 144 is on the path to success [1-99]
I voted Cromwell.

Salah ad-Din is seriously overrated in my opinion, both by his own adversaries and by us in the modern day. Hollywood doesn't help either by puffing him up. Cromwell was the better commander of the two. Period.

I just don't think there is comparsion. Cromwell was a better field commander and tactician then Salah ad-Din ever was.

Vote Wart!
__________________
Trust in Jesus Christ, always!
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 05 Jul 07, 11:39
Marshal Murat's Avatar
Marshal Murat Marshal Murat is offline
Second Lieutenant
United_States
5 Year Service Ribbon March Offensive Summer Campaign 
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Somewhere between Miami and Atlanta
Posts: 413
Marshal Murat is on the path to success [1-99] Marshal Murat is on the path to success [1-99] Marshal Murat is on the path to success [1-99] Marshal Murat is on the path to success [1-99]
I'd give Cromwell his due, but Salah-din was better. He not only re-captured Jerusalem, but he didn't massacre the entire population.

I think that Saladin not only defeated the Crusaders, he united most of the Middle East, from Cairo to Baghdad. Amassed the varied armies. Defeated the Crusaders and preserved the peace.
__________________
For despite the silly sayings about violence never settling anything, history IS changed on the battlefield: ask the National Socialist German Workers' Party.
-Jerry Pournelle-
Introduction to 'Hammer's Slammers'
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 05 Jul 07, 13:25
Tankboy's Avatar
Tankboy Tankboy is offline
Captain
United_States
5 Year Service Ribbon March Offensive Summer Campaign 100 Greatest Generals, 2008 
 
Real Name: Alexander Gerges
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Ust-Kamenogorsk
Posts: 777
Tankboy is on the path to success [1-99] Tankboy is on the path to success [1-99] Tankboy is on the path to success [1-99] Tankboy is on the path to success [1-99] Tankboy is on the path to success [1-99] Tankboy is on the path to success [1-99] Tankboy is on the path to success [1-99]
Again I must say:
SPOKEN: THE MOST INTERESTING THING ABOUT KING CHARLES I IS THAT HE WAS 5'6" TALL AT THE START OF HIS REIGN, BUT ONLY 4'8" TALL AT THE END OF IT...
BECAUSE OF...
Oliver Cromwell, Lord Protector of England
PURITAN
Born in 1599 and died in 1658
SEPTEMBER
Was at first
ONLY
MP for Huntingdon
BUT THEN
He led the Ironside Cavalry at Marston Moor in 1644 and won.
Then he founded the New Model Army
And praise be, beat the Cavaliers at Naseby
And the King fled up North like a bat to the Scots. SPOKEN: BUT UNDER THE TERMS OF JOHN PYM'S SOLEMN LEAGUE AND COVENANT, THE SCOTS HANDED KING CHARLES I OVER TO...
Oliver Cromwell, Lord Protector of England
AND HIS WARTS
Born in 1599 and died in 1658
SEPTEMBER
But alas
OY VEY!
Disagreement then broke out
BETWEEN
The Presbyterian Parliament and the Military who meant
To have an Independent bent.
And so...the Second Civil War broke out
And the Roundhead ranks
Faced the Cavaliers at Preston Lancs
And the King lost again, silly thing
STUPID GIT
SPOKEN: AND CROMWELL SEND COLONEL PRIDE TO PURGE THE HOUSE OF COMMONS OF THE PRESBYTERIAN ROYALISTS LEAVING BEHIND ONLY THE RUMP PARLIAMENT...
Which appointed a High Court at Westminster Hall
To indict Charles I for...tyranny
OOOOHHH!
Charles was sentenced to death
Even though he refused to accept that the court had...jurisdiction
SAY GOODBYE TO HIS HEAD
Poor King Charles laid his head on the block
JANUARY 1649
Down came the axe, and...
SPOKEN: IN THE SILENCE THAT FOLLOWED, THE ONLY SOUND THAT COULD BE HEARD WAS A SOLITARY GIGGLE, FROM...
Oliver Cromwell, Lord Protector of England
OLE
Born in 1599 and died in 1658
SEPTEMBER
Then he smashed
IRELAND
Set up the Commonwealth
AND MORE
He crushed the Scots at Worcester
And beat the Dutch at sea
In 1653 and then
He dissolved the Rump Parliament
And with Lambert's consent
Wrote the Instrument of Government
Under which Oliver was Protector at last
The End!
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 05 Jul 07, 13:36
Tankboy's Avatar
Tankboy Tankboy is offline
Captain
United_States
5 Year Service Ribbon March Offensive Summer Campaign 100 Greatest Generals, 2008 
 
Real Name: Alexander Gerges
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Ust-Kamenogorsk
Posts: 777
Tankboy is on the path to success [1-99] Tankboy is on the path to success [1-99] Tankboy is on the path to success [1-99] Tankboy is on the path to success [1-99] Tankboy is on the path to success [1-99] Tankboy is on the path to success [1-99] Tankboy is on the path to success [1-99]
What would be a good battle would be Saladin vs. Richard I.

Like to see how that turned out.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links

  #11  
Old 05 Jul 07, 13:42
Shogun 144's Avatar
Shogun 144 Shogun 144 is offline
Private First Class
United_States
Summer Campaign 
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Northeastern Michigan
Posts: 29
Shogun 144 is on the path to success [1-99]
I applaud the above statement!

A second reason I wanted to post here though is the much vaunted... 'mercy' of Salah ad-Din.

Let me use Jerusalem here as the prime example:

When Jerusalem was about to fall Salah ad-Din sent a letter to the defenders of Jerusalem stating his intention to kill every living thing in the city when it fell. To Salah ad-Din it was only fitting, the Crusaders did it when they took the city nearly a century before, so he could do it to them. What changed his mind was when Balian d'Ibelien sent a answer back in which he said that unless the Muslims showed mercy to Jerusalem, he would kill every last one of them in the city and then destory the Dome of the Rock and Al-Aqsa Mosque. After some deliberation, and much persausion on the part of his advisors, Salah ad-Din agreed. However he added a condition, that only those Christians that could pay their ransom would be spared. All those that could pay were shown mercy. Those that could not pay were enslaved.

EDIT: Looks like I took to long to make this post. The post I applauded was Tankboy's first post listing Cromwell's acheivements.
__________________
Trust in Jesus Christ, always!
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 05 Jul 07, 13:55
R. Evans's Avatar
R. Evans R. Evans is offline
General of the Forums
United_States
5 Year Service Ribbon March Offensive Summer Campaign 100 Greatest Generals, 2008 
Most Decisive Battle Campaign, 2008 Greatest Westerns Campaign Greatest Spy Movies Campaign Greatest Blunders Campaign 
 
Real Name: Bob Evans
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Salem, OH
Posts: 11,383
R. Evans has achieved enlightenment [1200+] R. Evans has achieved enlightenment [1200+] R. Evans has achieved enlightenment [1200+] R. Evans has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
R. Evans has achieved enlightenment [1200+] R. Evans has achieved enlightenment [1200+] R. Evans has achieved enlightenment [1200+] R. Evans has achieved enlightenment [1200+] R. Evans has achieved enlightenment [1200+] R. Evans has achieved enlightenment [1200+] R. Evans has achieved enlightenment [1200+] R. Evans has achieved enlightenment [1200+] R. Evans has achieved enlightenment [1200+] R. Evans has achieved enlightenment [1200+] R. Evans has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Cromwell, because Saladin should never have beaten Bolivar!
__________________
Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 05 Jul 07, 14:26
Centrix Vigilis's Avatar
Centrix Vigilis Centrix Vigilis is offline
Banned
United_States
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Artesia-Roswell-Dulce NM
Posts: 8,153
Centrix Vigilis is a glorious beacon of light [700]
Centrix Vigilis is a glorious beacon of light [700] Centrix Vigilis is a glorious beacon of light [700] Centrix Vigilis is a glorious beacon of light [700] Centrix Vigilis is a glorious beacon of light [700] Centrix Vigilis is a glorious beacon of light [700] Centrix Vigilis is a glorious beacon of light [700] Centrix Vigilis is a glorious beacon of light [700] Centrix Vigilis is a glorious beacon of light [700] Centrix Vigilis is a glorious beacon of light [700] Centrix Vigilis is a glorious beacon of light [700] Centrix Vigilis is a glorious beacon of light [700] Centrix Vigilis is a glorious beacon of light [700] Centrix Vigilis is a glorious beacon of light [700] Centrix Vigilis is a glorious beacon of light [700]
i know the feeling ref Giap....... what a miscarriage of justice...









as i view it......
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 05 Jul 07, 14:30
Pruitt's Avatar
Pruitt Pruitt is offline
General of the Forums
United_States
Distinguished Service Award 5 Year Service Ribbon March Offensive 100 Greatest Generals, 2008 
Most Decisive Battle Campaign, 2008 Summer Campaign Greatest Westerns Campaign Greatest Blunders Campaign 
Best Pin-Up Of World War II 
 
Real Name: Richard Pruitt
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Sulphur, LA
Posts: 18,873
Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
If you dudes did not like Nathan Bedford Forrest and thought he did some horrible things, why would you vote for Cromwell? He did worse in Ireland, Yorkshire and Scotland.

Pruitt
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 05 Jul 07, 15:10
Marshal Murat's Avatar
Marshal Murat Marshal Murat is offline
Second Lieutenant
United_States
5 Year Service Ribbon March Offensive Summer Campaign 
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Somewhere between Miami and Atlanta
Posts: 413
Marshal Murat is on the path to success [1-99] Marshal Murat is on the path to success [1-99] Marshal Murat is on the path to success [1-99] Marshal Murat is on the path to success [1-99]
Quote:
In July 1187, Saladin conquered most of the Kingdom of Jerusalem. On July 4, 1187, he faced at the Battle of Hattin the combined forces Guy of Lusignan, King consort of Jerusalem, and Raymond III of Tripoli. In the battle alone the Crusader army was largely annihilated by the motivated army of Saladin in what was a major disaster for the Crusaders and a turning point in the history of the Crusades
Quote:
The area is called the Horns of Hattin for the two rocky peaks that rise over the brush covered slopes behind Tiberius on the Sea of Galilee. It was here that Saladin aligned 12,000 of his knights plus an army carrying regular provisions at Tiberius. An army as well mounted and armed as anything that could be assembled by the combined forces of the Templar and Hospitaller orders. On the other side of the battlefield were the crusading forces comprised of 20,000 foot soldiers but only about 1,000 knights. This force, small by comparison, was assembled by depleting the forces of many surrounding cities thus leaving the unarmed cities open to attack.
(Wikipedia #1. Templar History #2 )

Saladin should win this.

I really hating having to vote between the two.
__________________
For despite the silly sayings about violence never settling anything, history IS changed on the battlefield: ask the National Socialist German Workers' Party.
-Jerry Pournelle-
Introduction to 'Hammer's Slammers'
Reply With Quote
Reply

Please bookmark this thread if you enjoyed it!


Thread Tools
Display Modes



Forum Jump

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 14:17.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.