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Go Back   Armchair General and HistoryNet >> The Best Forums in History > Historical Events & Eras > Weapons of War > Air Power

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Air Power A place to discuss the implements of War in the Air!

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  #1  
Old 12 Jan 04, 11:04
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JSF or F22: which should we buy?

If it eventually boils down to a choice between the JSF and the F22, which should the Pentagon go for? Although both planes are modern, high tech fighters, there are significant differences between their capabilities and roles. The Air Force really wants the F22 and they are pushing very hard for it. It's critics say it's too expensive and there really isn't a need for it. On the other hand, the Navy is pushing hard as well.
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  #2  
Old 12 Jan 04, 11:24
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Buy the Eurofighter
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  #3  
Old 12 Jan 04, 11:26
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Is either needed right now? If I had to choose it would be the JSF. With at least some parts being similar amongst the variants each branch wants it will keep costs down. In reallity the AF will probally though get both. .....
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  #4  
Old 12 Jan 04, 12:29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim McBride
Is either needed right now? If I had to choose it would be the JSF. With at least some parts being similar amongst the variants each branch wants it will keep costs down. In reality the AF will probably though get both. .....
Two different planes meant for two different roles. The F-22 is intended to replace our F-15s while the JSF our F-16s.

The F-22 is very expensive and takes a long time to build...just the fuselage takes twice as long to manufacture as does an entire F-16. It's also the most expensive fighter ever produced...that’s the down side.

On the up side, the advanced avionics allow the F-22 a "first look, first shot, first kill" capability, and along with its stealth and super-cruise would make this, easily, the best fighter plane in the world.

While the Eurofighter will be an improvement over the F-15, it would still lag behind the F-22 and it's a safe bet that Eurofighters will be sold around the world. Does any sane American want to see its men and women in combat against superior equipment? Since the end of WWII, the USAF has always tried to fly the best...why stop now? The Russians will also be releasing, prior to 2010 the Su 37, their version of our F-22; if we're still flying F-15s then, or even JSF's, we've now put our pilots at a serious disadvantage.

As for the JSF, the Marine Corps plan to purchase these and give them vertical take-off/landing capabilities...a feature that greatly increases the weight. The Marines have never wanted an Air Superiority aircraft; they always look for a fast mud mover that can defend itself (currently F-18s.) The JSF is a definite improvement over the F-16 and may be close to the Eurofighters performance...close but not better.

Right now we have three main fighters, F-14, F-15 & F-16. With the JSF and F-22 we could possibly trim that down to two. No reason to have only one fighter type when we demand such a varied task of them. If we do that, we'll end up with a bird alright...a turkey.
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Old 12 Jan 04, 21:41
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Skyvon hit it on the nail. The F-22 and JSF are two aircraft assigned to fulfill different roles. Personally, I think the F-22 might obselete.

The F-22 is superior to the Eurofighter. The EFA 2000 has a higher max speed. However, it can't hit supersonic speeds without using afterburn. The Raptor can cruise at speeds greater than 1,100mph, compared to the Eurofighter's 800mph. The Raptor can also carry more weapons. It's combat radius is twice as much as the EFA 2000. Finally, the F-22 incorporates stealth technology, which would give a flight of Raptors an tactical advantage, particularly at long ranges. One Raptor can use it's radar to detect enemy aircraft, then pass the info to other flights with their radar off to sneak in shots.

JSF will replace the F-16 as the Air Force's workhorse. Like the Raptor, it will incorporate stealth and agility, without the massive cost, hopefully.

So we need both, although, I see the JSF as a more important project. Maintaining air supremacy will be vital in future combat. While the cost of modern aircraft will limit the number of countries who will threaten mobility, we should not lull ourselves into a false sense of security.

I do like the Eurofighter. I'm confident it will make a major impact on the world. The little sucker is fast, very agile, not too expensive, and like JSF and the F-16 can fill several critical roles. There are also the Gripen and Rafale. Both are very solid designs that will have an impact on the future of air combat. The SU-37 appears to be superior to the F-22, when it comes to thrust vectoring technology. Still, it might suffer because it lacks stealth technology. It can do so fancy maneuvers, but most of them would get the aircraft an AAM up the tailpipe. (Slowing down in an air battle can be fatal.)

I would like to see the US invest more in a new AWACS system as well as some more bombers. Then again, cruise missiles might replace them in any case soon enough.
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  #6  
Old 12 Jan 04, 22:08
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S-37 superior to F22? No way ...
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Old 12 Jan 04, 22:37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ER_Chaser
S-37 superior to F22? No way ...
In a dogfight, most likely yes.

However, no self-respecting Raptor pilot would stick around once he's out of missiles...unless he has a death wish.

Just put the bird in super-cruise and head for home to reload while your opponent looks around hysterically for that plane that just shot at him, this pilot should also immediately buy a lottery ticket as his luck much be running high right now. Even if he is lucky enough to find the Raptor, a minute of afterburners in the Su-37 (or any other bird) trying to catch the Raptor for that dogfight will eat so much fuel that he'll be forced to RTB...and would a Raptor ever be flying solo? Not a chance.

Thus, while Raptor A heads for home, Raptors B, C & D will finish off that Su-37, or EF or...

When you think of it, Raptor is a very apt name for this plane
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Old 13 Jan 04, 03:52
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I would vote for the F-22.
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Old 13 Jan 04, 08:07
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kraut
Buy the Eurofighter
Yes, like that the AI will have a chance if you play against it .
(Buy the Rafale, don't do like the Poles).

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Old 13 Jan 04, 08:49
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Talking French Superior technology

Tsssss, none of them they can't stand the strengh and the power of the Blériot XI

Poor US guys 10 Blériot XI, and and all USAF kneel down behind French superior Technology

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Old 31 Jan 17, 03:56
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I would go with the F-22.
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Old 31 Jan 17, 04:10
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The TFX ?
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Old 17 Feb 17, 17:07
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According to President Trump today, he's looking at a large order for the Super Hornet.
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Old 17 Feb 17, 18:34
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Nah, I think he's just teasing Lockheed to bring down the cost.
Wouldn't mind though, the F-35 is a lot uglier than the Super Hornet.
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Old 17 Feb 17, 19:09
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I think the Air Force can make a case for more F-22's. Maybe not as many as they wanted, but some. The JSF might replace the F-16, but not the A-10.

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