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Orders of Battle Orders-of-battle, TO&E's, and related information on who fought where and what they brought to the battle.

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  #1  
Old 26 Aug 06, 02:01
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11th ACR Vietnam

I'm looking for the exact composition of the squadrons of the 11th ACR during Vietnam, I know they were organized differently from the divisional Armored Cavalry Squadrons but couldn't find infos on their TOEs. I know they had three cavalry troop and one of tanks each plus a battery of M109 155mm SP guns but not much more. I'm particularly looking for the number of M113s they had and the infantry elements, if any.

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  #2  
Old 26 Aug 06, 10:30
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boonie you tried asking on the group or gordon rottman ? ..

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  #3  
Old 26 Aug 06, 10:39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thomas.tmcc
boonie you tried asking on the group or gordon rottman ? ..

thomas
Yes, but didn't got many answers yet
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  #4  
Old 26 Aug 06, 10:43
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I should have it but I'll have to dig into the "archives" .
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Old 26 Aug 06, 10:46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freightshaker
I should have it but I'll have to dig into the "archives" .
Well? What'choo waitin' for??
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  #6  
Old 26 Aug 06, 11:30
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The MTOE I have is for the 80's and I'm not sure they would be the same.
The other is from the 90's and that has changed.

Each troop is organized into a HQ section, 2 scout pltns, 2 tank pltns, a mortar section, and a maintenance section. Each scout platoon has 1 officer and 29 enlisted men and is equipped with 6 M113's which is organized into a HQ section and 2 scout sections. The tank pltn has 1 officer and 15 enlisted men and is equipeed with 4 tanks organized into 2 sections. The mortar section has 9 men and is equipped with 2 M106's. The troop HQ section has 2 officers and 11 enlisted and is equipped with 1 tank, 1 M577, 1 M113, and 3 trucks.
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Old 26 Aug 06, 22:04
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11th ACR

Boonie,
I use to know this, but I do not want to give out "false" info.

Let me look and I'll get back with you.
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Old 27 Aug 06, 11:50
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Ok thanks guys. One thing I can't figure out about armored cavalry is if they contain any infantry elements riding aboard the M113s or if the M113s are purely ACAV type?
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Old 27 Aug 06, 12:32
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Usually there were 5 soldiers in the M113: driver, commander, and 3-4 scouts. An ACR is a high firepower/low manpower unit. It is a small unit but leaves the footprint of an armored division.
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Old 27 Aug 06, 13:56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freightshaker
Usually there were 5 soldiers in the M113: driver, commander, and 3-4 scouts. An ACR is a high firepower/low manpower unit. It is a small unit but leaves the footprint of an armored division.
OK thanks Scott, thats was my idea as well. Could the scouts dismount and fight as infantry if needed or do they kept by their M60s/.50?
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Old 27 Aug 06, 15:55
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Boonie,

There was at least a 50 caliber and two M-60s on the M-113. Which one do you leave unmanned as a gunner gets off? Vehicle gunners are extremely loathe to leave a vehicle while the gun is operable. My take is that would take away from the arc of covering fire on the M-113. The M-113 used as a scout vehicle's best feature was mobility and firepower. If you halt to dismount, you are just making it an RPG magnet.

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Old 27 Aug 06, 16:22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boonierat
OK thanks Scott, thats was my idea as well. Could the scouts dismount and fight as infantry if needed or do they kept by their M60s/.50?
Although the scouts dismount for recon missions, once they leave the track they loose their greatest asset; mobility. A scout section doesn't have the firepower of an infantry squad so when under fire it's best to manuever instead of standing to fight. The section was armed with only M-16's, the crew served weapons would stay on the track.
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Old 27 Aug 06, 22:36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freightshaker
Usually there were 5 soldiers in the M113: driver, commander, and 3-4 scouts. An ACR is a high firepower/low manpower unit. It is a small unit but leaves the footprint of an armored division.
Freightshaker,

Here is what the breakdown of the "old" ACR Troops were in 'Nam...

Scout section 4x M113 ACAVs.... 4 or 5 man crew per vehicle. PL normally road with this section

Tank section 3x M551 Sheridans. PSG ALWAYS rode with this section.

Infantry Section 1x M113. 9 Grunts "stuffed" in/on top of this aluminum "can".

Indirect Fires section 1x M106(Nomenclature not too sure). 81mm for indirect and Illum support for the Platoon.

Took me a while to locate this info. Sure was nice going back into my Armor magazines from the 1970s.
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Old 27 Aug 06, 23:43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Kenneally
Took me a while to locate this info. Sure was nice going back into my Armor magazines from the 1970s.
Damn, I didn't think of that. I have some on PDF and some magazines. They always were good "bathroom" reading .
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Old 28 Aug 06, 00:22
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Just started reading Keith Nolan's Into Cambodia last nite and he gives the TOEs for an 11th ACR squadron: 9 Sheridans and 25 ACAVs per cav troop, which came as a surprise for me, I didn't know the cav troops had armors, which gives each squadrons 27 Sheridans plus a company of M48A3s (I'm guessing 17 of them, just like a company in a tank battalion at the time) for a total of 44 tanks, which is much more than an armored cavalry squadrons . Now the question is: did the sheridans replace some M48A3s? if yes it would means a pre-1969 squadron would have had 44 pattons, which is nearly as much as a divisional tank battalion (and would make them the most powerfull ground units in Vietnam)

PS: he doesn't mentions any M106 though, just some M125s and M132s in the HHC.

Last edited by Boonierat; 28 Aug 06 at 06:13..
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