HistoryNet.com RSS
ArmchairGeneral.com RSS

HistoryNet.com Articles
America's Civil War
American History
Aviation History
British Heritage
Civil War Times
MHQ
Military History
Vietnam
Wild West
World War II

ACG Online
ACG Magazine
Stuff We Like
War College
History News
Tactics 101
Carlo D'Este
Books

ACG Gaming
Boardgames
PC Game Reviews

ACG Network
Contact Us
Our Newsletter
Meet Our Staff
Advertise With Us

Sites We Support
HistoryNet.com
Once A Marine
The Art of Battle
Game Squad
Mil. History Podcast
Russian Army - WW2
Achtung Panzer!
Mil History Online

Go Back   Armchair General and HistoryNet >> The Best Forums in History > Historical Events & Eras > World War II > Battles & Campaigns

Notices and Announcements

Battles & Campaigns Whether it's an individual combat account or a massive clash of arms; the strategy, tactics & operations of WW II are open for discussion here.

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #4036  
Old 11 Aug 06, 10:23
AdrianE's Avatar
AdrianE AdrianE is online now
Brigadier General
Canada
5 Year Service Ribbon 
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Ottawa, Ontario
Posts: 2,129
AdrianE is walking in the light [200] AdrianE is walking in the light [200] AdrianE is walking in the light [200] AdrianE is walking in the light [200] AdrianE is walking in the light [200] AdrianE is walking in the light [200] AdrianE is walking in the light [200] AdrianE is walking in the light [200] AdrianE is walking in the light [200] AdrianE is walking in the light [200] AdrianE is walking in the light [200] AdrianE is walking in the light [200] AdrianE is walking in the light [200]
The problem with finding out any solid reliable information on the disposition of British ground unit dispostions is that very few serious historians have thought sealion likely enough to write a book with this information.

Up to now we have had just the German recon maps posted by Leandros and the defence of Britian web page posted by Gooner (IIRC). Not much at all. We also know that 1st Canadian and elements of second Canadian divisions are based in Aldershot. However I don't know enough English geography to know where Aldershot is.

Perhaps the Martin Marix Evans book has some detailed useful info but I don't own it and can't acquire it in a timely manner. From the description on the website:

"The book follows the real course of events up to1 September, including the planning in Britain and Germany, and the aerial war. The fictional story then supposes that the Germans halted their advance in France along the Seine and the Aisne after the fall of Paris and that Marshal Petain conceded an armistice at that point."

So it is a self-admitted fictional work but still may contain useful info. Since Duke william has this book maybe he can enlighten us.

FM - I thought you were looking for info on British army dispositions in fall 1940. What have you found?
  #4037  
Old 11 Aug 06, 10:32
AdrianE's Avatar
AdrianE AdrianE is online now
Brigadier General
Canada
5 Year Service Ribbon 
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Ottawa, Ontario
Posts: 2,129
AdrianE is walking in the light [200] AdrianE is walking in the light [200] AdrianE is walking in the light [200] AdrianE is walking in the light [200] AdrianE is walking in the light [200] AdrianE is walking in the light [200] AdrianE is walking in the light [200] AdrianE is walking in the light [200] AdrianE is walking in the light [200] AdrianE is walking in the light [200] AdrianE is walking in the light [200] AdrianE is walking in the light [200] AdrianE is walking in the light [200]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Full Monty
Current update based on information received.
If you are going to insist on following what is know and documentable then I shall insist on returning to the historical timeline rather than our fantasy scenario.

You know the real world where the RAF won the air war and major RN surface forces block the channel, leading Germany to abandon all thoughts of invasion.

Given the lack of solid info so far we should make reasonable assumptions about what the defenders have and would do. To assume one side would prevail because the majority of historians found the forelorn hope side more interesting to write about, is inappropriate.
  #4038  
Old 11 Aug 06, 10:52
Gooner's Avatar
Gooner Gooner is offline
General of the Forums
England
5 Year Service Ribbon 
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: London
Posts: 5,530
Gooner is on a distinguished road [300] Gooner is on a distinguished road [300] Gooner is on a distinguished road [300] Gooner is on a distinguished road [300] Gooner is on a distinguished road [300] Gooner is on a distinguished road [300] Gooner is on a distinguished road [300] Gooner is on a distinguished road [300] Gooner is on a distinguished road [300] Gooner is on a distinguished road [300] Gooner is on a distinguished road [300] Gooner is on a distinguished road [300] Gooner is on a distinguished road [300]
For the invasion defences in Kent we have on the coast one complete division, the 1st London Division (later 56th Infantry Division) and part of the 45th Infantry Division.
1st London Division is a first-line Territorial Division that had not been to France and was well trained and equipped. 45th Division is a second-line Territorial Division, but with some first-line and even a Regular battalions. They had not served in the BEF either but were reasonably well trained and equipped.

For the proposed German landing by 16th Army in the area Hythe to Dungeness are located two Brigades, each with two battalions 'up' and one in reserve.

Each Battalion has fifty Bren Light Machine Guns, two 3" mortars, twelve 2" mortars, twenty two anti-tank rifles and ten Carriers usually organised into a mobile reserve.

Each Brigade also contains an Anti-tank Company containing nine 2-pdr anti-tank guns, ten Bren Guns and 3 anti-tank rifles.

Each Brigade usually had attached a battery or sometimes two from the divisional Royal Artillery Anti-Tank Regiment, each battery containing twelve 2-pdr anti-tank guns with twelve Brens and four anti-tank rifles.
Also attached, almost invariably, was a Field Regiment of Artillery containing twenty four artillery pieces, likely of 25-pdrs but possibly 18-pdr/4.5 combination, divided into two batteries of three troops each. Each Regiment would also contain fourteen Brens and thirteen anti-tank rifles. The Regiment would typically have two Forward Observation Officers attached to each infantry battalion.
The Engineer attachment, who could form a small but useful reserve or second-line, would consist of a Field Park Company of 250 men all armed with rifles with maybe six Bren guns with a proportion of anti-tank rifles.

The Coastal Batteries in this sector consist of 7 batteries of coastal artillery, usually of two 6" guns and over, 2 single gun emplacements of 4" or 4.7" guns. Additional support will be available from a 14" gun, four 9.2", several 6" guns from Dover, along with two 13.5" and two 9.2" railway mounted guns in Kent. The 18" Railway gun 'Boche Buster' is also undertaking trials at this point.
(From various sources)
  #4039  
Old 11 Aug 06, 10:55
Full Monty's Avatar
Full Monty Full Monty is offline
General of the Forums
EU
5 Year Service Ribbon 
 
Real Name: Dick Barton
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Essex
Posts: 26,444
Full Monty has disabled reputation
Adrian, much has been posted about beach defences, battalion deployments etc. in a very general sense. I do have information (which I have already posted) on Imperial deployments and the OOB's and ToE's are easily available. We know that only half of the British Army was 'mobile' so I think it's reasonable to assume that the coastal divisions are going to be the static ones.

It's not up to me to 'play' the Imperial side - i.e. decide where and when units are deployed even if a historical strategy is followed - because it would be ridiculous.

Quote:
If you are going to insist on following what is know and documentable then I shall insist on returning to the historical timeline rather than our fantasy scenario.

You know the real world where the RAF won the air war and major RN surface forces block the channel, leading Germany to abandon all thoughts of invasion.
Which would be utterly childish and, I think, out of character.
__________________
Signing out.
  #4040  
Old 11 Aug 06, 11:03
Duke William's Avatar
Duke William Duke William is offline
Banned
United_States
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Texas
Posts: 4,909
Duke William has demonstrated strength of character [100] Duke William has demonstrated strength of character [100] Duke William has demonstrated strength of character [100] Duke William has demonstrated strength of character [100] Duke William has demonstrated strength of character [100] Duke William has demonstrated strength of character [100] Duke William has demonstrated strength of character [100] Duke William has demonstrated strength of character [100]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gooner
For the invasion defences in Kent we have on the coast one complete division, the 1st London Division (later 56th Infantry Division) and part of the 45th Infantry Division.
1st London Division is a first-line Territorial Division that had not been to France and was well trained and equipped. 45th Division is a second-line Territorial Division, but with some first-line and even a Regular battalions. They had not served in the BEF either but were reasonably well trained and equipped.

For the proposed German landing by 16th Army in the area Hythe to Dungeness are located two Brigades, each with two battalions 'up' and one in reserve.

Each Battalion has fifty Bren Light Machine Guns, two 3" mortars, twelve 2" mortars, twenty two anti-tank rifles and ten Carriers usually organised into a mobile reserve.

Each Brigade also contains an Anti-tank Company containing nine 2-pdr anti-tank guns, ten Bren Guns and 3 anti-tank rifles.

Each Brigade usually had attached a battery or sometimes two from the divisional Royal Artillery Anti-Tank Regiment, each battery containing twelve 2-pdr anti-tank guns with twelve Brens and four anti-tank rifles.
Also attached, almost invariably, was a Field Regiment of Artillery containing twenty four artillery pieces, likely of 25-pdrs but possibly 18-pdr/4.5 combination, divided into two batteries of three troops each. Each Regiment would also contain fourteen Brens and thirteen anti-tank rifles. The Regiment would typically have two Forward Observation Officers attached to each infantry battalion.
The Engineer attachment, who could form a small but useful reserve or second-line, would consist of a Field Park Company of 250 men all armed with rifles with maybe six Bren guns with a proportion of anti-tank rifles.

The Coastal Batteries in this sector consist of 7 batteries of coastal artillery, usually of two 6" guns and over, 2 single gun emplacements of 4" or 4.7" guns. Additional support will be available from a 14" gun, four 9.2", several 6" guns from Dover, along with two 13.5" and two 9.2" railway mounted guns in Kent. The 18" Railway gun 'Boche Buster' is also undertaking trials at this point.
(From various sources)
ERROR, ERROR, ERROR, ERROR, ERROR.....The 18" Inch Railway Gun Did NOT come into being before 1941.
Sponsored Links

  #4041  
Old 11 Aug 06, 11:16
Gooner's Avatar
Gooner Gooner is offline
General of the Forums
England
5 Year Service Ribbon 
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: London
Posts: 5,530
Gooner is on a distinguished road [300] Gooner is on a distinguished road [300] Gooner is on a distinguished road [300] Gooner is on a distinguished road [300] Gooner is on a distinguished road [300] Gooner is on a distinguished road [300] Gooner is on a distinguished road [300] Gooner is on a distinguished road [300] Gooner is on a distinguished road [300] Gooner is on a distinguished road [300] Gooner is on a distinguished road [300] Gooner is on a distinguished road [300] Gooner is on a distinguished road [300]


I swear I read it was undergoing trials in Kent in September 1940.
  #4042  
Old 11 Aug 06, 12:13
Gooner's Avatar
Gooner Gooner is offline
General of the Forums
England
5 Year Service Ribbon 
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: London
Posts: 5,530
Gooner is on a distinguished road [300] Gooner is on a distinguished road [300] Gooner is on a distinguished road [300] Gooner is on a distinguished road [300] Gooner is on a distinguished road [300] Gooner is on a distinguished road [300] Gooner is on a distinguished road [300] Gooner is on a distinguished road [300] Gooner is on a distinguished road [300] Gooner is on a distinguished road [300] Gooner is on a distinguished road [300] Gooner is on a distinguished road [300] Gooner is on a distinguished road [300]
Immediate mobile reserves to 1st London Division was the 2nd New Zealand Expeditionary Force (UK) located in villages around Sittingbourne and Maidstone.
On invasion alert they would be under orders to be ready to move with thirty minutes and could be in the invasion area within two hours.

Their OB at this time consisted of

2nd New Zealand Expeditionary Force (UK) - 12 September 1940

5th Field Regiment, NZA
7th Anti-Tank Regiment, NZA (31st, 32nd Batteries)
7th Field Company, NZE
C Squadron, 2nd New Zealand Divisional Cavalry
8th Royal Tank Regiment
157th Anti-Aircraft Battery, RA

5th New Zealand Infantry Brigade
21st, 22nd, 23rd Infantry Battalions
5th New Zealand Anti-Tank Company

7th New Zealand Infantry Brigade
28th (Maori), 29th Infantry Battalions
4th New Zealand Anti-Tank Company

8th Royal Tank Regiment was an Army Tank Battalion of 50 Matilda II Infantry Tanks, seven light tanks and eight Carriers.
C Squadron, 2nd New Zealand Divisional Cavalry contained 8 light tanks and 14 Carriers.
157th Anti-Aircraft Battery RA, contained twelve or sixteen Bofors Light Anti-Aircraft Guns.
  #4043  
Old 11 Aug 06, 12:53
Duke William's Avatar
Duke William Duke William is offline
Banned
United_States
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Texas
Posts: 4,909
Duke William has demonstrated strength of character [100] Duke William has demonstrated strength of character [100] Duke William has demonstrated strength of character [100] Duke William has demonstrated strength of character [100] Duke William has demonstrated strength of character [100] Duke William has demonstrated strength of character [100] Duke William has demonstrated strength of character [100] Duke William has demonstrated strength of character [100]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gooner


I swear I read it was undergoing trials in Kent in September 1940.
Hey, I could be wrong.

NOT BLOODY LIKELY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

But I could be all the same.
  #4044  
Old 11 Aug 06, 13:16
johnbryan's Avatar
johnbryan johnbryan is offline
General of the Forums
United_States
5 Year Service Ribbon Best Pin-Up Of World War II 
 
Real Name: John
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Michigan
Posts: 16,528
johnbryan has achieved enlightenment [1200+] johnbryan has achieved enlightenment [1200+] johnbryan has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
johnbryan has achieved enlightenment [1200+] johnbryan has achieved enlightenment [1200+] johnbryan has achieved enlightenment [1200+] johnbryan has achieved enlightenment [1200+] johnbryan has achieved enlightenment [1200+] johnbryan has achieved enlightenment [1200+] johnbryan has achieved enlightenment [1200+] johnbryan has achieved enlightenment [1200+] johnbryan has achieved enlightenment [1200+] johnbryan has achieved enlightenment [1200+] johnbryan has achieved enlightenment [1200+] johnbryan has achieved enlightenment [1200+] johnbryan has achieved enlightenment [1200+] johnbryan has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke William
Hey, I could be wrong.

NOT BLOODY LIKELY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

But I could be all the same.
No, you're right. I did a bit of research, looked it up and found out the gun wan't emplaced until the Spring of 41. Churchill inspected it later that Summer. I found this.

The military authorities began negotiations with the Southern Railway with a view to taking complete control of the line for defense purposes. On 25th October the passenger service between Lyminge and Canterbury was suddenly suspended in order that the engineers could install loop sidings for railway born guns at a number of loop sidings at various points on the line. One of these was at Barham.

On Friday 1st December the Southern Railway officially withdrew the passenger trains and the line was handed over to the Railway Operating Troops. The war department undertook the running of the daily goods train on behalf of the Southern who's staff remained at all of the stations. The War Department also ran their own recreation trains for troops and the public on Wednesdays, Saturdays and Sundays.



After track changes had been completed the 18 inch railway gun named "Boche-Buster" travelled down from Catterick Camp disguised as a string of banana wagons. It was capable of hurling a 6 ft shell weighing 1¼ tons some 12½ miles.

Four brick magazine stores were built into the cutting north of Bishopsbourne and steps were cut into the banks either side of the southern portal of the tunnel which then housed the gun.

The bridge over Railway Hill, Barham was strengthened by huge timber baulks to support the weight of the 250 ton gun which was moved up and down the line to suitable points as it could only be fired parallel with the track. The meandering railway allowed it to sweep virtually the whole south east corner of Kent thus enabling it to bombard any invasion force. A short spur built into a field north of Barham gave the gun additional directions which included cover of Pegwell Bay near Ramsgate.

The line, itself, suffered little damage during the war despite a few attempts to destroy it. One bomb did manage to land squarely on the track at Kingston
(1 mile north of Barham) but failed to explode.

In March 1944 the line was handed back to the Southern Railway and all guns and military units were withdrawn. Repairs to signalling was costed at £128.2s.9d, removal of surplus assets £1,165 and repairs to stations and bridges at £2,120 - for the whole line!
__________________
"Profanity is but a linguistic crutch for illiterate motherbleepers"

Last edited by johnbryan; 11 Aug 06 at 13:22..
  #4045  
Old 11 Aug 06, 13:20
Jason Petho's Avatar
Jason Petho Jason Petho is offline
Corporal
Canada
5 Year Service Ribbon 
 
Real Name: Jason Petho
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Calgary, AB
Posts: 68
Jason Petho is on the path to success [1-99]
Gentlemen

Due to my high interest in this particular operation, I have been following this thread since the beginning.

There is a lot of information that has been shared and is truly appreciated.

I see the discussion is trying to see how land combat would have been resolved. Unfortunately, I am under the impression that only a small number are remotely aware of what the nature of the terrain is at the landing sites, or the limitations of the terrain for attack, defence and reinforcing.

I have at home a set of 1:50,000 topo maps produced in 1940 of Kent. I'll see what I can do about posting them in full or in part to assist in the land combat debate.

Until then, one can take a look at this site:

http://www.streetmap.co.uk/newmap.sr...3080&ay=133920

And start to get a grasp of the terrain in the area.

Hope this helps
Take care and good luck
Jason Petho
__________________
Petho Cartography

Mapping Military History

The site has been updated! Check out the Portfolio section!

(http://www.pethocarto.com)
  #4046  
Old 11 Aug 06, 13:24
Duke William's Avatar
Duke William Duke William is offline
Banned
United_States
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Texas
Posts: 4,909
Duke William has demonstrated strength of character [100] Duke William has demonstrated strength of character [100] Duke William has demonstrated strength of character [100] Duke William has demonstrated strength of character [100] Duke William has demonstrated strength of character [100] Duke William has demonstrated strength of character [100] Duke William has demonstrated strength of character [100] Duke William has demonstrated strength of character [100]
British Railway Guns - Can SOMEBODY Convert The Metrics Please?

(1) The 18" Inch BL Mark I Gun:

The project dated back from World War I and was a large 18-Inch barrel fitted on the railway truck of the 14-Inch Gun, which was widely used at the time. It became the largest railway gun in the history of the British artillery. Development problems delayed the introduction until 1918, after the armistice. The two completed examples still existed in 1939. In the emergency of the summer of 1940, they left storage and were deployed near Dover. Their limited range did not allow them to reach the French coast across the Dover Straits and they fired very few shells against the enemy. In the end, their propaganda value proved higher than their operational one. In November of 1943, they joined the "Super Heavy Artillery Regiment", until it was dissolved in 1944 & after that the Germans had been expelled from their positions near Calais. It was envisaged to used them as anti-bunker weapons during the landing in Normandy, but the idea proved impractical and was dropped. They were declared obsolete in April of 1947.

Calibre: 457mm L/34.7

Barrel Weight: 87,077.0 Kilograms

Total Weight: 254,440.0 Kilograms

Length w/The Carriage: 15.86 Meters

Length: 16.50 Meters

Production: 2 Examples

Weight of Projectile: 1,134.0 Kilograms

Muzzle Velocity: 573 Meters Per Second

Range: 20,382 Meters

(2) 13.5" Inch Mark V Gun:

The barrels dated back from 1912 and were intended for the battleships of the Iron Duke Class. When the ships were scrapped, the guns were recovered and put in storage. On the other hand, 14-Inch railways guns had existed during World War I. The barrel was unusable, but the mount and the truck could still be of use. To face the threat of a German invasion in the summer of 1940, the naval barrels were fitted on the railways trucks, the first one being completed on September 20, 1940 and the last one in May of 1941.
Until November of 1943, they remained in the Dover area, served by the Royal Marines (the only qualified artillerymen available). It was one of the rare guns able to answer the German shelling across the Dover Straits. One of the British guns was slightly damaged by a 280mm shell sent by a German counterpart. For the rest, the weapons were not really useful because of their limited traverse beyond the axis of the railroad.
The guns were assigned to the "Super Heavy Railway Artillery Regiment" in November of 1943, but the disappearance of the German threat on the French coast in 1944 made such guns redundant. Declared obsolete in 1945, they went to the scrapyard

Calibre: 342.9mm L/45

Barrel Weight: 79,493.5 Kilograms

Total Weight: 244,592.0 Kilograms

Length w/Carriage: 15.43 Meters

Length: 15.9 meters

Production: 3 Examples

206 examples of this gun had been completed in total, but only three were used as coastal batterys during the war. Two others were used to build an experimental railroad gun (The 13.5"/8" Inch Hypervelocity)

Weight of Projectile: 567.0 Kilograms

Muzzle Velocity: 777 Meters Per Second

Range: 36,560 Meters

(3) 12" Inch Mark III Howitzer:

Gun built during World War I and put into reserve in the inter-war period. It reappeared in 1939 and part of them were sent to France to support the British Expedionary Force there. Their utility in a mobile war was doubtful and all examples on the continent were lost to The Germans in May-June of 1940.
What was left in Britain were deployed as a mobile reserve against a possible invasion. The model was declared obsolete in August of 1945. The Germans renamed the captured examples "234mm Haubitze (E) 633(e)", but it seems they did not press them into service again.

Calibre: 305mm L/17.3 & Range: 13,116 Meters

(4) 12" Inch Mark V Howitzer:

The Mark V was introduced in 1917. It was similar to the previous 12-Inch Mark III, except for the new muzzle brake and a cradle that widened markedly its traverse. Its history was the same as its predecessor. It was put into reserve towards the end of World War I and pressed into service again in 1939. The Germans captured some of them on the continent during the Campaign in the West, while the survivors were deployed along the British coasts to repel a possible invasion. Obsolete in August of 1945.

Calibre: 305mm L/17.3 & Range: 13,116 Meters

(5) 9.2" Inch Mark 10 Gun:

These were originally coastal guns dating back to 1899. During World War I, some were fitted on railroad carriages. Phased out in the twenties, the examples still existing in 1940 were repaired and pressed into service along the British coastline as a mobile reserve.

Calibre: 234mm L/46.6 & Range: 19.194 Meters

(6) 9.2" Inch Mark XIII Gun:

By contrast to the 9.2-inch Mark 10, which was an adapation for the railways of a coastal gun, the Mark XIII had been designed from the start as a railway gun. It was lighter with a shorter barrel, but launched further the same ammunition. For the rest, both models have the same history: built during World War I, put in storage in the 1920's and reused in 1940 as a mobile coastal defense reserve.

Calibre: 234mm L/35 & Range: 20,656 Meters

(7) 14" Inch Mark VII Gun: (Coastal Gun)

The Royal Navy gave the British Army two guns prepared for the King George V class battleships for use as coastal batteries. The first one was installed on August 3, 1940 and fired for the first time on August 27th. Churchill had visited it a few days before, which earned it the surname "Winnie" (a nickname of the Prime Minister). The second example was ready by February of 1941 and got the nickname "Pooh". Both weapons remained there for the whole conflict and grappled with their German counterparts on the other side of the Dover Straits, among them the 380mm Guns of the Todt battery. Their improvised mounting did not allow them to engage fast moving naval targets. Some were dismanteld after the end of the conflict.

Calibre: 356mm L/45

Barrel Weight: 80,866.0 Kilograms

Length: 16.53 Meters

Production: 2 Examples

Weight of Projectile: 719.41 Kilograms

Muzzle Velocity: 747 Meters Per Second

Range: 43,187 Meters

The propelling charge was made up of 313 lbs of cordite & The projectile contained 154 lbs of TNT
  #4047  
Old 11 Aug 06, 13:33
johnbryan's Avatar
johnbryan johnbryan is offline
General of the Forums
United_States
5 Year Service Ribbon Best Pin-Up Of World War II 
 
Real Name: John
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Michigan
Posts: 16,528
johnbryan has achieved enlightenment [1200+] johnbryan has achieved enlightenment [1200+] johnbryan has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
johnbryan has achieved enlightenment [1200+] johnbryan has achieved enlightenment [1200+] johnbryan has achieved enlightenment [1200+] johnbryan has achieved enlightenment [1200+] johnbryan has achieved enlightenment [1200+] johnbryan has achieved enlightenment [1200+] johnbryan has achieved enlightenment [1200+] johnbryan has achieved enlightenment [1200+] johnbryan has achieved enlightenment [1200+] johnbryan has achieved enlightenment [1200+] johnbryan has achieved enlightenment [1200+] johnbryan has achieved enlightenment [1200+] johnbryan has achieved enlightenment [1200+] johnbryan has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Petho
Gentlemen

Due to my high interest in this particular operation, I have been following this thread since the beginning.

There is a lot of information that has been shared and is truly appreciated.

I see the discussion is trying to see how land combat would have been resolved. Unfortunately, I am under the impression that only a small number are remotely aware of what the nature of the terrain is at the landing sites, or the limitations of the terrain for attack, defence and reinforcing.

I have at home a set of 1:50,000 topo maps produced in 1940 of Kent. I'll see what I can do about posting them in full or in part to assist in the land combat debate.

Until then, one can take a look at this site:

http://www.streetmap.co.uk/newmap.sr...3080&ay=133920

And start to get a grasp of the terrain in the area.

Hope this helps
Take care and good luck
Jason Petho
Excellent maps Jason Petho! Thanks!
__________________
"Profanity is but a linguistic crutch for illiterate motherbleepers"
  #4048  
Old 11 Aug 06, 13:45
AdrianE's Avatar
AdrianE AdrianE is online now
Brigadier General
Canada
5 Year Service Ribbon 
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Ottawa, Ontario
Posts: 2,129
AdrianE is walking in the light [200] AdrianE is walking in the light [200] AdrianE is walking in the light [200] AdrianE is walking in the light [200] AdrianE is walking in the light [200] AdrianE is walking in the light [200] AdrianE is walking in the light [200] AdrianE is walking in the light [200] AdrianE is walking in the light [200] AdrianE is walking in the light [200] AdrianE is walking in the light [200] AdrianE is walking in the light [200] AdrianE is walking in the light [200]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke William
ERROR, ERROR, ERROR, ERROR, ERROR.....The 18" Inch Railway Gun Did NOT come into being before 1941.
That's fine. It still leaves an enormous amount of defensive firepower covering the beaches.
  #4049  
Old 11 Aug 06, 13:51
Duke William's Avatar
Duke William Duke William is offline
Banned
United_States
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Texas
Posts: 4,909
Duke William has demonstrated strength of character [100] Duke William has demonstrated strength of character [100] Duke William has demonstrated strength of character [100] Duke William has demonstrated strength of character [100] Duke William has demonstrated strength of character [100] Duke William has demonstrated strength of character [100] Duke William has demonstrated strength of character [100] Duke William has demonstrated strength of character [100]
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdrianE
That's fine. It still leaves an enormous amount of defensive firepower covering the beaches.
Uh Huh, Where? What? How many? What Kind? Manned by Who? How much Ammo? Their Ranges? Rates of Fire?

HUH?????

Oh wait, never mind, I'll jot down all the info when I come back from work later tonight, just like I always do.

I mean, i don't want you to hurt yourself trying to participate in the (A)Historical Fantasy Debate.
  #4050  
Old 11 Aug 06, 13:53
AdrianE's Avatar
AdrianE AdrianE is online now
Brigadier General
Canada
5 Year Service Ribbon 
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Ottawa, Ontario
Posts: 2,129
AdrianE is walking in the light [200] AdrianE is walking in the light [200] AdrianE is walking in the light [200] AdrianE is walking in the light [200] AdrianE is walking in the light [200] AdrianE is walking in the light [200] AdrianE is walking in the light [200] AdrianE is walking in the light [200] AdrianE is walking in the light [200] AdrianE is walking in the light [200] AdrianE is walking in the light [200] AdrianE is walking in the light [200] AdrianE is walking in the light [200]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Full Monty
We have to make allowances for wastage of men and equipment (accidents, breakdowns etc,). I was thinking around 10% across the board except for the unpowered barges where I'd put it more like 25%.
I was thinking something similar. I'd further break it down in that the convoys departing from Bolougne and Calais suffer less (say 5% and 15% respectively) but the convoys from Rotterdam/Amsterdam and LeHavre suffer more (15% and 35%).

I'd also think that some % of the forces arrive late. Maybe another 10 to 20% arrive 2 hours late from Boulogne/Calais and 4 to 8 hours late from Rotterdam/Amsterdam and LeHavre.
Sponsored Links

Closed Thread

Please bookmark this thread if you enjoyed it!


Thread Tools
Display Modes



Forum Jump

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 20:32.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.