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Go Back   Armchair General and HistoryNet >> The Best Forums in History > Historical Events & Eras > Warfare Through the Ages > The Medieval Era

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The Medieval Era Discussions on Knights and Crusaders, and all things medieval!

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  #46  
Old 23 Jul 08, 10:45
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The battle of Towton, 1461. A bloodbath where no quarter was given or taken, fought in driving snow. We do atmosphere up north.

Legnano, 1176. The triumph of citizen infantry.
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  #47  
Old 23 Jul 08, 13:24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyWlad View Post
This is my choice also. Its agruably the last great medieval "muscle" battle.

Wlad



Battle scene from the Polish movie "Krzyzacy" (1960) by Aleksander Ford.
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  #48  
Old 12 Sep 08, 11:38
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What about the last crusade in 1396? The battle of Nicopolis, where the best french heavy cavalry was destructed by the ottomans...
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  #49  
Old 19 Sep 08, 18:01
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fatih View Post
My favourite military event is the Turkish victory in Malazgirt against Byzantine Army on August 26, 1071.
Although the Turks were outnumbered by the army of Roman Diogenes, the brilliant command of Alparslan brought Turks the victory.
Turks entered and settled in Anatolia after this victory. We owe our today homeland Anatolia to this victory.
The tactics executed by Alparslan in this war are still shown in lessons of Turkish Military Academy.
Roman Diogenes were captured by Turks. Alparslan showed him hospitality as he had been his guest. Then he released him and send some guards to protect him on his way to Constantinopole. He arrived in the capital but imprisoned by his own people. He died after being heavily tortured.

Regards
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as i recall the turkish victory in that battle owed more to roman treason than to turkish brilliance ..
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  #50  
Old 19 Sep 08, 18:07
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taylor Ahern View Post
Admiral, thank you very much! I made this slight grammatical error near the end when I should have wrote "the genesis of everything that the Swiss accomplished" instead of just "the genesis everything". My bad! Also, I'm real sorry if I've been going on for way too long, I'll really try to keep any additional posts in the future from being as protracted and wordy. I'm sorry. Tell me this, do you think that those terrifying and spectacular ambush tactics displayed by the Swiss on the wooded slopes of Morgarten, if applied elsewhere within the Alps, would have been effective at defeating any major Mongol incursion into that area? For I think that the Mongols would have encountered the greatest and most ferocious resistance from both the Swiss and the Scottish Highlanders had they been able to penetrate to well within Central and Western Europe mainly because of the various mountain redoubts, the hostile, very rugged and dangerous terrain of the Swiss Alps and the Highlands with their narrow passes, extremely tough climbs, and many defensive-friendly positions, and by the Swiss/Scottish deployment of such devastating guerilla tactics. Maybe they would have avoided those two areas all together? Though if such an encounter ever took place what a battle it would have been! For my money I'd go with the Swiss and the Scots basically because they would have this major, nearly insurmountable, advantage of launching these quick raids and and brutal ambushes on this less than vigilant Mongol cavalry. Though you be the judge. Also, speaking of Scottish ambushes, I forgot to mention the pivotal battle of Stirling in 1297, where William Wallace used superior tactics, mobility, positioning and timing as he led his fellow Scots Lowlanders in this utterly ferocious and unstoppable downhill charge into the somewhat disorderly and surprised ranks of English knights and other foot soldiers. The English were viciously slaughtered after Wallace waited for the right moment and opportunity to launch his attack at just the right time before the English buildup of strength on the other side of the Stirling Bridge facing the Scots became too great to overcome, as he signaled with his horn for the Scots, who were mostly armed with these 12 foot spears, to spring into action from behind this jumble of rocks and collectively charge downhill straight into their foes as furiously and fiercely as possible, which they did. And the result was complete carnage and this utter humiliation for an army that had previously regarded itself as invincible and unbeatable, especially when matched up to any rag-tag gang of outlaws who they believed would never face them in open battle. It was very similar to the Swiss ambush at Morgarten (though the Swiss were better trained and drilled soldiers than the Scots, who relied more upon the impetuosity and savagery of their attacks to carry them through to victory more so than the rigors of highly organized, disciplined mass assaults!) and William Wallace was knighted and proclaimed High protector and guardian of Scotland soon after. For like Bannockburn in 1314 the Battle at Stirling Bridge proved that the English could be defeated and routed, and Scottish morale and confidence also increased by these leaps and bounds. While Morgarten was the bloody genesis of the legendary and feared Swiss warrior the ambush at Stirling and the pitched/open terrain battle of Bannockburn became the genesis of the modern day American fighting man, mainly because this large percentage of Washington's Army and those who served in his cause were of Scottish descent, albeit Scotch-Irishmen, and they drew much of their inspiration, reasoning and motives from the victories of their ancestors in those far-off battlefields, victories which have resonated throughout history and in the mind of many an American soldier. For in those victories, as during the American Revolution, the very freedoms and liberties of those Celtic rebels were at stake, yet it was the success of those Scots at Stirling and Bannockburn that actually laid the true- spiritual/philosophical/Scottish/peasant fighting elan-foundation for their American descendants to follow and emulate. For the American rebels, much like those late 13th-early 14th century Scots, were this grass-roots, rag-tag army of citizen soldiers who fought for the same ideals and principles of this uniquely Democratic form of freedom that was born up in the Scottish glens, transported to the USA by millions of Scotch-Irishmen destined to form the sturdy backbone of the Continental and Confederate rebel Armies, and finally spread amongst all those other American nationalities destined to embrace the very same spirit and warrior ethos springing from that fiery notion of Celtic independence. The same type of Celtic independence that inspired those grass-roots, citizen soldier rebels on the fields of Bannockburn! So in many ways Bannockburn paved the way to the fight for American independence, establishing the very purpose, necessity and structural makeup of the modern day army of citizen soldiers.
i take it you have some guid scottish blood then ?
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  #51  
Old 23 Sep 08, 06:42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by captainsennef View Post
In the year 1302 the Flemish burgers from mainly Ghent and Bruges were able to defeat a French army of knights on horseback which the French King had sent north to Flanders in order to subdue them.
The Flemish were able to chose the battlefield and made good use of terrain features typical of the Low Countries (a marshy meadow crossed by two brooks, making a head-on cavalry charge against them an impossibility). In spite of this the French knights, dismissive of the rabble facing them insisted on their favorite tactic: the frontal charge, unsurprisingly they got bogged down in the marsh and the brooks.
Unencumbered by armour and armed with their famous 'goedendags' (approx. baseball bats with a spike on top) the burghers were able to move in swiftly and finish off the stuck plate armoured knights who had charged far ahead of their supporting infantry.
When the remainder of the French army saw that the shock force of knights on horseback was annihilated, they considered the battle lost and withdrew. They were however pursued by the burghers who, contrary to expectations, didn't plunder the battlefield and take the the knights prisoners for ransom, but instead killed all in front of them and continued to go after the French army. The French withdrawal turned into a rout and a massacre.

After the battle the burghers went home with the golden spurs they had taken off the bodies of the French knights. These golden spurs gave the battle its name.

A chronicler recorded the battle as a sheer impossibility and consequences of the victory of 'democratic' infantry over 'aristocratic' cavalry were noticed throughout Europe. They were not only military: it had happened before that infantry (Frisians, Scots, Swiss, see Taylor's posts ) had defeated knight-heavy armies;
this battle's outcome also had far reaching political consequences as commoners got a far bigger say in the way they were governed. In that regard the battle can be seen as another starting point of the long democratic tradition in the Low Countries.
This also one of my favourite battles, for much the same reasons as yourself . The Battle of Stirling Bridge is there also, not the Battle of Stirling bridge as shown in Braveheart but the real one with a bridge in it. Wallace was a true inspirational leader even the English like (but not then probably).

Another favourite, but relatively unimportant was Poitiers in 1358, just because the battle should have been a foregone conclusion for the French, and the mad flanking charge at the end. Brits including archers on horseback verses French on foot - whats going on!

The most important battles - probably - involve the Byzantines especially 1071 and 1453 due to the huge impact between Middle-East West relations, more so than anything the Mongols did, but thats just my opinion, and not too important really.
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  #52  
Old 23 Sep 08, 06:55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barbaross@ View Post



Battle scene from the Polish movie "Krzyzacy" (1960) by Aleksander Ford.
Know nothing of this battle or film before now.
Really enjoyed this, bad guys in white - Teutons?. Good guys in red, and the peasants turning the tide? - Soviet film any chance. Still thanks for the clip.
Gonna have to dig out Braveheart and have a wee dram
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  #53  
Old 19 Oct 08, 02:29
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My favourite battles are:

Falkirk: 1298
Halidon Hill: 1333
Dupplin moor: 1334
Nevilles Cross: 1346
Flodden: 1513
Cravant: 1423
Verneuil: 1424
Rouvray: 1429

Last edited by Dibble201Bty; 19 Oct 08 at 02:32..
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  #54  
Old 06 Dec 08, 11:51
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I think one of the most significant Medieval battle was the defend of Beograd (Nándorfehérvár in its contemporary Hungarian name) in 1456 The Hungarian and Serbian Allies defended Central Europe from the Ottomans. The Christian countries and the Pope promised to help, since stopping the Turks was the sake of all Christian Europe. But they lied like so many other times, and did not give any support.
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  #55  
Old 26 Dec 08, 05:13
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I would recommend

1. Battle of Yarmouk 636
First wave of Islamic conquest


2. The Battle of Talas in 751 CE was a conflict between the muslim arabs and the chinese over central asia.
"The eminent Sinologist L. Carrington Goodrich called it" one of the decisive battles of history," and the great Russian Orientalist and historian extraordinaire of Muslim Central Asia, Barthold, "declared that "this battle. . .determined the question which of the two civilizations, the Chinese or the Muslim, should predominate in the land (of Turkestan)." Yet few people have heard of the Battle of Talas"



3. Battle of Hastings 1066
Led to the century old conflict between France and England from the 12th century on…

4. Battle of Manzikert 1071
Byzantium loses Anitolian territory and Muslims advance further west ! Beginning of the end for Byzantium…



5. Battle of Hattin 1187
Holy land conquered by Muslims wich would lead to another 5 “crusades”…



6. Battle of Taraori 1192
Leads to the Delhi Sultanate and first Muslim state in India…



7. Battle of Leignitz 1241
Near end of Western civilization !

8. Battle of Lake Peipus 1242
Led to the final split between Christianity and Orthodoxy ! Russian nation becomes enstranged from the West !!!!

9. Battle of Ain Jainut 1260
First decisive defeat of Mongols, thereby ending their conquests westward !


10. Battle of Tannenberg 1410
Leads to Polish-Lithuanian superpower and end of Northern Crusades !!!!

11. Battle of Patay 1429
First decisive French victory over the English on the battlefield in almost a century, beginning of end of English dominated France and birth of French nationalism !



12. Fall of Constantinople 1453
Start of the Renaissance and Age of Exploration due to the fact that Muslims now control the “key” between East and West…
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  #56  
Old 26 Dec 08, 17:21
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My favorite (although biased since I am Swiss) are the battles at Murten, Grandson and Nancy, the three defeats Charles the Bold of Burgundy suffered in his last war.
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  #57  
Old 26 Dec 08, 17:54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick the Noodle View Post
Brits including archers on horseback verses French on foot - whats going on!
.
Hey Nick, Tell me more about English archery on horseback. Did they shoot from the saddle?

If they used their horses just as transport to ferry themselves around the battlefield, but fought on foot, it present the problem of what to do with your horse while you were fighting. The most important use of a horse is to get the hell out of trouble, so horsey needs to be close by, hence you need every fourth or fith man as a horse handler/groom. Any records about this?

On the same topic, the Bayeux tapestry features a man on horseback with a drawn bow. Is this just artistic license?
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  #58  
Old 04 Jan 09, 20:15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viktorious View Post
I think one of the most significant Medieval battle was the defend of Beograd (Nándorfehérvár in its contemporary Hungarian name) in 1456 The Hungarian and Serbian Allies defended Central Europe from the Ottomans. The Christian countries and the Pope promised to help, since stopping the Turks was the sake of all Christian Europe. But they lied like so many other times, and did not give any support.
I agree completely with its importance. Of course, it was also the battle that killed Janos Hunyadi, if memory serves correctly. As a medieval Hungarian re-enactor, who is currently the SCA's Black Raven Herald, I can't accept that as one of my favorites.
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  #59  
Old 06 Jan 09, 07:56
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I belong to the SCA too. My favorite period is the Hundred Years war thanks to Shakespeare and Henry V.

The battle of Castillon and John Talbot's death has always been a favorite.
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  #60  
Old 06 Jan 09, 09:39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chukka View Post
Hey Nick, Tell me more about English archery on horseback. Did they shoot from the saddle?

If they used their horses just as transport to ferry themselves around the battlefield, but fought on foot, it present the problem of what to do with your horse while you were fighting. The most important use of a horse is to get the hell out of trouble, so horsey needs to be close by, hence you need every fourth or fith man as a horse handler/groom. Any records about this?
A Poitiers 1358 the French had learned from Crecy and were marching up on foot. Many historians that the mile and a half walk or so to the British lines would have been fatiguing, but armour weight was pretty well distributed around the body in those days, and plenty of soldiers carry more kit into battle these days.

A series on British TV, Weapons That Made Britain included the following clip in the armour episode. What made this series great is that the narrator is both informed and enthusiastic about the subject, and will reconstruct actual weapons and armour pieces to see what really would have happened.

An Enlightening Clip



At Poitiers the French were marching up for a final push to defeat the Brits. Every Brit who could ride, whether knight, billman or archer who could nab a horse did so and they charged into the flank of the advancing column, capturing the French King John the Good in the process.

AFAIK longbowmen didn't fire from horseback in any battle.

One interesting, but useless, fact about John the Good, was that while in British captivity his accounts show he was afforded one pound of fresh ginger a day amongst many other luxuries, and only available from the Far East at that time! How much would that cost!
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