28 October 1940

[Achilles]

In 28 October 1940 Greece was the first neutral country (without the help of the Allies) to achieve a victory over the forces of AXIS.

What is interesting is the secret facts that no-one except very few know about what happened after the Greek victory over the Italians.

It is a very interesting story concerning the way that the GREEK prime minister METAXAS died 2 days after he ate with the British delegation, and while he was under treatment by a British doctor.

If the above doesn't ring any bells to your ears then here is ... some more of the UNTOLD history...

Prime minister METAXAS who was very close to National-Socialistic ideology (Nazism) and he was a friend of the Germanic culture was approached by Hitler's diplomats in order to stop the war against Italy (Greece was winning and had invaded the Greek northern lands in Albania.

The terms of the treaty were:

1. Peace with Italy,
2. Greece would keep under its control the conquered lands of south Albania.
3. Greece will then be again a NEUTRAL country.

As, you understand this was something very unpleasant for the British diplomacy and...

Just some more facts...

Greek Prime Minister Metaxas was the person who said NO to the Italian request for un-conditioned surrender of Greece to Italy
Hitler was preparing the Invasion to Russia and he didn't wish to lose time and resources in order to secure his south flanks.

Many weird assasiations on several Greek politicians happened in that specific period

Anyway, perhaps some day I will tell you the story...

[Karri]

I don't fancy conspiracy theories, but you're right at one point: the Greek struggle is mostly untold, though not unknown. Most people know Greece resisted, but that's about it...even less is known about it than from Winter War.

[dannybou]

Originally Posted by Achilles

In 28 October 1940 Greece was the first neutral country (without the help of the Allies) to achieve a victory over the forces of AXIS.

What is interesting is the secret facts that no-one except very few know about what happened after the Greek victory over the Italians.

It is a very interesting story concerning the way that the GREEK prime minister METAXAS died 2 days after he ate with the British delegation, and while he was under treatment by a British doctor.

If the above doesn't ring any bells to your ears then here is ... some more of the UNTOLD history...

Prime minister METAXAS who was very close to National-Socialistic ideology (Nazism) and he was a friend of the Germanic culture was approached by Hitler's diplomats in order to stop the war against Italy (Greece was winning and had invaded the Greek northern lands in Albania.

The terms of the treaty were:

1. Peace with Italy,
2. Greece would keep under its control the conquered lands of south Albania.
3. Greece will then be again a NEUTRAL country.

As, you understand this was something very unpleasant for the British diplomacy and...

Just some more facts...

Greek Prime Minister Metaxas was the person who said NO to the Italian request for un-conditioned surrender of Greece to Italy
Hitler was preparing the Invasion to Russia and he didn't wish to lose time and resources in order to secure his south flanks.

Many weird assasiations on several Greek politicians happened in that specific period

Anyway, perhaps some day I will tell you the story...

Is there any archival evidence to your assumptions that the British might be involved in the death of Metaxas?

[Achilles]

I have access to evidences... and its not only the death of METAXAS but also the death of other important persons involved in this story.
You know there isn't any way that someone commit suicide with two bullets in the chest (I have access of a photo taken in the morgue)...

Anyway today, I met with the grand-daughter of METAXAS in a special ceremony for the memory of METAXAS in their house in KIFISIA Athens, and we spoke about him and other issues concerning that period.

So... What would happen if Greece regained its NEUTRALITY like for example Spain, Switzerland and Turkey did? Would this had any effect in the war?

Concerning the war in Greece, Italy lost many men, material and moral and in the other hand Germany lost critical time and a lot of their Para troops (in Crete).

Italy attacked Greece without the authorization of Hitler and Greece wouldn't join the war if not attacked...

Hitler was very angry with Musollini when he learned that the Italians attacked Greece and he had to help him by creating a coalition of forces with the Italians and the Bulgarians in order to secure his flanks.

[dannybou]

Although I agree with you that committing suicide by shoting oneself twice in the chest is very highly unlikely so it would support a possibility of a murder. But by whom? Maybe the Brits did have a motive but that doesn't amount to evidence, unless the police reports of that time are still in existence...

[Achilles]

Originally Posted by dannybou

Although I agree with you that committing suicide by shoting oneself twice in the chest is very highly unlikely so it would support a possibility of a murder. But by whom? Maybe the Brits did have a motive but that doesn't amount to evidence, unless the police reports of that time are still in existence...

>>unless the police reports of that time are still in existence...

The police report (concerning this specific incident) speaks of a "suicide"... and this makes things more complicated; why should a murder be described (in an official report) as a suicide?

and this is not the only incident...

Anyway, can anyone speculate what would happen if Greece had regained its NEUTRALITY?

How many units (Italian, German & Bulgarian) would have reinforced the Africa front and the Soviet front?
Would the operation Barbarossa had begun earlier?

cheers,
Pyros

[The Purist]

Originally Posted by Achilles

[How many units (Italian, German & Bulgarian) would have reinforced the Africa front and the Soviet front?
Would the operation Barbarossa had begun earlier?

Bulgaria did not join the war against Russia until invaded by Russia in 1944.

German and Italian troops to Africa? Not likely, they could not supply the troops the did send adequately, thety were not about to send more.

Operation Barbarossa beginning early? Nope,...spring came late in 41 and the Germans could not attack in April or May due to swollen rivers and muddy fields in Poland and western Russia. Besides, German troop commitments to Greece were not all that heavy, the campaign was short, casualties light and all the troops borrowed were back in position for Barbarossa with plenty of time to spare.

Net result was that the Greek campaign was far more damaging for the allied cause than it was for the German/Italian. It gave the axis airfields in Crete that could harass the RN in the eastern Med and the Nile Delta..

[Double Deuce]

Originally Posted by Achilles

>>unless the police reports of that time are still in existence...

The police report (concerning this specific incident) speaks of a "suicide"... and this makes things more complicated; why should a murder be described (in an official report) as a suicide?

and this is not the only incident...

One can never completely rule out internal political rivalry. Would others in Greece benefit from this happening? If so who?

As to the effect on the Greece neutrality it would probably have had the most significant impact on the North Africa fighting. Not sure enough forces were tied down occupying Greece to have any effect on the eastern front.

[Weeble]

Originally Posted by The Purist

Net result was that the Greek campaign was far more damaging for the allied cause than it was for the German/Italian. It gave the axis airfields in Crete that could harass the RN in the eastern Med and the Nile Delta..

I totally agree with this viewpoint. The withdrawal of "Force W" from North Africa to assist the Greeks allowed Rommel to regain Cyrenaica, and virtually destroyed all the units involved. The presence of these units would, perhaps, have held the Afrika Korps at El Agheila.

W-Force OOB:

http://niehorster.orbat.com/017_brit.../_w-force.html

For German Troops operating out of Bulgaria:

"THE MILITARY-POLITICAL SITUATION IN THE BALKANS (October 1940-March 1941)"

http://www.army.mil/cmh-pg/books/wwi...n/20_260_1.htm

[C.M. Ansley]

Originally Posted by Achilles

and this is not the only incident...

Now I'm listening...

[Achilles]

ALEXANDROS KORIZIS

Alexandros Korizis (1885-1941) was a Greek Prime Minister briefly in 1941.
On January 29 when Ioannis Metaxas died, he became Prime Minister of Greece.

Less than three months later, on April 18, when Athens was placed under martial law, he committed suicide.



Timeline:

18/04/1941 The German 12th Army forces a crossing of the river Aliakmon between the Greek First Army and the British forces. Athens is placed under martial law. Greek Prime Minister, Alexandros Korizis commits suicide.
19/04/1941 The Germans attack south through Greece on a wide front. The Greek Government agrees that British forces should be evacuated. General Wilson plans to make a strong stand at Thermopylae, to cover the withdrawal of his troops to ports in the Peloponnese.


Another clue on what happened:

On the 18th of April 1941 the Greek prime minister Korizis is in a meeting with the Greek King George B and the British delegation. He disputes with the British for a very important reason and then he leaves the meeting for his house.
After 2 hours he is found dead with two bullets in his heart, official reason of death is suicide.

Also here is what I found concerning the German campaign on Greece:
copy/paste

It has been argued that the Balkan Campaign decisively delayed the German invasion of Russia. For example, during the Nuremberg trials after WWII, Hitler's Chief of Staff Field Marshall Keitel stated that "The unbelievable strong resistance of the Greeks delayed by two or more vital months the German attack against Russia; if we did not have this long delay, the outcome of the war would have been different in the eastern front and in the war in general, and others would have been accused and would be occupying this seat as defendants today". On the other hand, it may have been the Russian weather, not the contingencies of subsidiary campaigns, which determined Barbarossa’s launch date.

[Double Deuce]

Originally Posted by Achilles

ALEXANDROS KORIZIS

Alexandros Korizis (1885-1941) was a Greek Prime Minister briefly in 1941.
On January 29 when Ioannis Metaxas died, he became Prime Minister of Greece.

Less than three months later, on April 18, when Athens was placed under martial law, he committed suicide.

When you put the sequence of events together, the level of conspiracy theory suspicion rises dramatically.

[Achilles]

Here is someone who died with almost the same symptoms like METAXAS:

copy/paste from David Irving HITLER’S WAR

While even the overt relations between Germany and Italy were thus deteriorating, Hitler had continued patching up his defenses in the Balkans. King Boris of Bulgaria was invited for a two-day informal visit to the Wolf’s Lair. According to records kept by Hitler’s manservant, they lunched together for three hours on August 14 and again the next day before Hitler himself accompanied Boris to Rastenburg airfield. He had asked the king to provide two more Bulgarian divisions for security purposes in Greece, but Boris was reluctant in view of the potential risk to his country from Turkey ; besides, he wisely pointed out, the Greeks hated the Bulgars, so such a move might only increase the disturbances. Bulgaria’s military position was precarious : in return for rich territorial concessions from Hitler, she had declared war on the Allies but not on Russia ; but the Soviet Union was known to be grooming divisions in the Caucasus for an invasion of Bulgaria, and a powerful Communist movement was emerging in the land.

Two weeks later King Boris was struck down by a disease of mysterious suddenness. The German air attachÈ in Sofia provided immediate air transport for the king’s German physician, Dr. Seitz, on August 24 ; Seitz reported that the king was dying. Ribbentrop’s staff warned of the grave consequences to Bulgaria’s policies. “Without the king, the Bulgarian people would be leaderless and uncertain of themselves, and they might come under the influence of the Communist and pro-British opposition.” Seitz provisionally diagnosed a bladder disease, and Professor Hans Eppinger was summoned for consultation from Vienna. Complications set in, and the famous neurologist Professor Maximilian de Crinis was flown in from Berlin on the twenty-eighth ; but at 4:zo P.M., the king died. The government communiquÈ spoke of angina pectoris. Upon the doctors’ return, Hitler instructed his minister of justice to discharge them from their oath of secrecy and to question them ; they were unanimous that the cause of death was not angina pectoris but an exotic snake-poison. It was the characteristic “Balkan death,” as Eppinger put it.

Hitler was disconsolate at the loss of this stabilizing influence in Bulgaria. Enemy radio broadcasts rejoiced at Boris’s death. He ordered a powerful delegation to attend the state funeral, including Admiral Raeder, Keitel, and an impressive assembly of army generals. His instinct told him that the House of Savoy lay behind the murder : rumor had it that Boris’s queen—Giovanna, third daughter of the king of Italy—was a leading figure in the Bulgarian underground ; and was it not suspicious that Princess Mafalda, her sister, the wife of Prince Philipp of Hesse and “blackest carrion in the Italian royal house” (as Hitler luridly described her), had spent some weeks in Sofia quite recently ? Curiously, while the Bulgarian government had agreed to allow the German doctors to perform a postmortem, the king’s own family had refused. Gradually the pieces of Hitler’s crossword puzzle were clicking into place. From the Forschungsamt he learned that Prince Philipp had recently dictated groups of ciphers over the telephone to Mafalda, evidently employing some private code. But to arrest him would be to alarm the Italian monarchy too soon. So Hitler invited the prince to be his guest at headquarters, treated him with continued hospitality—and told his guards not to let him out again.

[tigersqn]

Originally Posted by The Purist

Net result was that the Greek campaign was far more damaging for the allied cause than it was for the German/Italian.

I would argue this point.

By the time the British sent troops to Greece, they would possibly have been in a position to capture Tripoli. The move to Greece greatly weakened the British in North Africa.
This allowed the Axis to retain Tripoli (with the inclusion into the NA theatre of the Afrika Korps), allowing the Allies a non-critical theatre with which to learn HOW to fight the war and weed out those commanders unsuitable for the modern way of war.

[tigersqn]

Hmmm. I tried to delete my first post but it wont even let me edit it ??????