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Weapons of War The machinery of warfare. .

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  #3511  
Old 21 Jul 09, 11:39
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Ok, here's a challenge.

The picture below does of course illustrate the Rheinmetall 120mm L/44 and L/55 tank guns. For Rheinmetall this gun has been extremely successful and exported far and wide. Some nations have simply taken the gun as it is and used it for their MBTs. Others have used this gun as a template from which to develop their own tank gun. The question now is how many tanks, both production and prototype tanks, can we name that use either Rheinmetall gun or a derivative thereof. So far I have found 14 tanks (though I'm not 100% on all of them) for the L/44 and 3 for the L/55.

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File Type: jpg name that tank.JPG (28.4 KB, 4 views)
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Last edited by AEP; 21 Jul 09 at 11:41..
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  #3512  
Old 21 Jul 09, 17:32
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Definately Leopard 2 to Leopard 2 A5 top; Leopard 2 A6 bottom.
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  #3513  
Old 21 Jul 09, 18:07
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cougar1 View Post
Definately Leopard 2 to Leopard 2 A5 top; Leopard 2 A6 bottom.
That's the easiest ones out of the way.

For the Leo 2 with L/44 I would count all variants up to and including Leo 2A5 the Strv 122, Leo 2 PSO, and Leo 2A5 DK.

Under the Leo 2A6 I would include the 2A6M, Leo 2 HEL, Leo 2E, Leo 2A6EX.


So far, the score simply looks like this:

L/44: Leo 2A5

L/55: Leo 2A6

But of course there's many more to go
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  #3514  
Old 21 Jul 09, 18:17
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Rheinmetall's L/44

Austria, Canada, Chile, Denmark, Finland, Greece, Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, Turkey.

M256

Australia, Egypt, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia.

KM256

Sth Korea.

Type 90

Japan.

Rheinmetall's L/55

Canada, Greece, Netherlands, Portugal, Spain.

World Industries Ace L/55

Sth Korea.

The Challenger II may also get the L/55 version one day, two have trialed it.....
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  #3515  
Old 21 Jul 09, 18:39
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Originally Posted by Achtung Baby View Post
Rheinmetall's L/44

Austria, Canada, Chile, Denmark, Finland, Greece, Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, Turkey.

M256

Australia, Egypt, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia.

KM256

Sth Korea.

Type 90

Japan.

Rheinmetall's L/55

Canada, Greece, Netherlands, Portugal, Spain.

World Industries Ace L/55

Sth Korea.

The Challenger II may also get the L/55 version one day, two have trialed it.....
Nice list

So in addition to the 2A5 and 2A6 I presume you are referring to the M1, K1A1, Type 90, K2 and Challenger 2. Any others you'd like to add that list
Don't forget that there are tanks that use Rheinmetall derived guns as well (incl. prototypes).


Updating the tally so far:

L/44: Leo 2A5, M1, K1A1, Type 90

L/55: Leo 2A6, K2, Challenger 2
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  #3516  
Old 21 Jul 09, 20:52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AEP View Post
Challenger 2
Not so sure that should count. The Chally2's weapon is basically L30 with a smooth bore barrel taken from the L/55. The trouble is the L30 has a very compact breach compared to the German gun. So there's insufficient space for the Rheinmetall 120mm. Add in the two piece ammo storage currently installed and you'd need an entirely new turret.

The initial problems was that when it fired the signature was too intense. By all accounts they've now fixed that issue.
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  #3517  
Old 22 Jul 09, 03:47
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- Do we count IMI 120mm gun, found on israeli Merkava tank, and M60T Sabra upgrade?

- Italian Ariete tank (L44)

- prototype of turkish Altay
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  #3518  
Old 22 Jul 09, 07:24
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Originally Posted by Listy View Post
Not so sure that should count. The Chally2's weapon is basically L30 with a smooth bore barrel taken from the L/55. The trouble is the L30 has a very compact breach compared to the German gun. So there's insufficient space for the Rheinmetall 120mm. Add in the two piece ammo storage currently installed and you'd need an entirely new turret.

The initial problems was that when it fired the signature was too intense. By all accounts they've now fixed that issue.
You are right, the 120mm L/55 has not of course been adopted across the Challenger 2 range. IIRC firing trails with two vehicle using the German gun began in Jan '06. Though I do not know what the final verdict of these tests is...

However, my intention here is to try and illustrate how ubiquitous the Rheinmetall guns have become. Even if they are not adopted on a particular tank, they represent a benchmark that is difficult to ignore. So for the purposes of this exercise I want to not only mention the production versions, but also include trial applications of the Rheinmetall guns.
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  #3519  
Old 22 Jul 09, 07:40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vathra View Post
- Do we count IMI 120mm gun, found on israeli Merkava tank, and M60T Sabra upgrade?

- Italian Ariete tank (L44)

- prototype of turkish Altay
Yes, I would count these as well since they all have their roots in the Rheinmetalls. Each does nonetheless have notable differences. The IMI 120mm gun is for example more compact and uses a different recoil system. The Oto Melara 120mm L/44 on the C1 Ariete for example has an identical gun chamber but slightly different barrel layout.


The tally so far:

L/44: Leo 2A5, M1, K1A1, Type 90, Merkava III/IV, C1 Ariete, M60T Sabra

L/55: Leo 2A6, K2, Challenger 2, presumably Altay

I know of at least of 4 more tanks that have dressed up in a Rheinmetall 120mm L/44 and 2 more of which I'm not entirely certain of the heritage but suspect Rheinmetall involvement.
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Last edited by AEP; 22 Jul 09 at 07:47..
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  #3520  
Old 22 Jul 09, 08:40
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Indian Arjun tank had tests with Rheinmetal gun.
Ukraine T84 Yatagan has some 120mm smoothbore gun, capable of firing NATO standard rounds.
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  #3521  
Old 22 Jul 09, 12:29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AEP View Post
You are right, the 120mm L/55 has not of course been adopted across the Challenger 2 range. IIRC firing trails with two vehicle using the German gun began in Jan '06. Though I do not know what the final verdict of these tests is...

However, my intention here is to try and illustrate how ubiquitous the Rheinmetall guns have become. Even if they are not adopted on a particular tank, they represent a benchmark that is difficult to ignore. So for the purposes of this exercise I want to not only mention the production versions, but also include trial applications of the Rheinmetall guns.
I can tell you how the program went. CLIP (Challenger lethality improvement Program) is dead. It costs money which the armed forces just don't have. As I said its just the barrel off the L/55, not the gun its self, those come off the L30.
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  #3522  
Old 22 Jul 09, 12:43
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I haven't seen it listed yet but the M1 Abrams has it as well.

Oh my bad i see it now.
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  #3523  
Old 22 Jul 09, 16:29
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Lets add prototypes of:
- Leopard 1A6 prototype
- South African Olifant (Centurion)
- Jordanian M48 upgrade AB9B1
- Italian Centauro (wheeled vehicle)

And of course german version of MBT-70

Last edited by vathra; 22 Jul 09 at 16:35..
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  #3524  
Old 22 Jul 09, 18:26
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Quote:
Lets add prototypes of:

- Italian Centauro (wheeled vehicle)
Actually wheeled AT destroyer for light to medium resistance.
And introduced to Italian army,so it not any more a prototype.
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  #3525  
Old 22 Jul 09, 18:47
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Originally Posted by nikolas93TS View Post
Actually wheeled AT destroyer for light to medium resistance.
And introduced to Italian army,so it not any more a prototype.
It is in italian army with standard 105mm gun.
Version with 120mm gun is probably ordered by Oman, 6 vehicles. (haven't seen one)
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