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Weapons of War The machinery of warfare. .

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  #1  
Old 20 Jun 05, 17:34
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The Forgotten Weapons Of War...

I was reading the exellent Flight Journal magazine, and two articles from different issues took my attention.

These exellent jets were forgotten to my generation (I was introduced to our world in 1970).

First was the US Navy's answer to the SAC dominance in the fifties, the A 3 DOUGLAS SKYWARRIOR, or the 'Whale' as it was called by the men who fought and maintaned it.

Originally planned as a nuclear bomber of similar proportions to the RAF v bombers, it was suddenly out of a job in the nuclear game when the polaris submarines came to play in the early sixties.

Still a great all weather performer, it was not to be wasted as some 200 were manufactured, with some 30 additional recon jets and about two dozen electronic warfare models in operational status, the navy put them into use during rolling thunder, as bombers.

I had never heard of this plane, only the A 4 Skyhawk, and the later A 7 & A 9 along with the Phantom's were my picture of Vietnam era carrier bourne jets.

Well from 65 to 67, the Skywarrior did many a bombing mission from both Dixie and Yankee stations.

The Dixie cas planes didnt have sights, but still were reconed to be the most effective ground support planes by the GI's on the ground, only when Westy saw them in action and although appreciated the good results, when heard that no sights were installed onto these originally nuke bombers, he couldnt have the press get onto this, and they were pulled off.

They still gave good service as fuelling planes, and the recon/electronic warfare models kept on warring until 72 I belive (please correct me if I got the year wrong).

The USAF had it's equivalent, in the Korean war, the very good fighter bomber of the designation of> F 84 Thunderjet, modelled like a Sabre with two engines one on each wing, it could go deep penetration with either two 500 pound bombs, or two 1000 pounders for anti aaa work, where the fuse was set for blasting in the air 50 to 100 meters above the ground.

They found chocke points and even did some night bombing where they followed the rail lines from their reflection in the moonlight, and if the reflections stopped, that meant there was a train there, and boom!

Also, when the enemy jumped them with much more agile and faster mig/15 jets, they would drop ordnance and sometimes even shoot down a mig, although evasion and escape was the norm.

Both of these cold war warriors were completely unknown to me, and I enjoyed reading about them from the exellent mil aviation mag FLIGHT JOURNAL which I now have subscribed. (ACG, TIME FOR AN AIR STRATEGY ARTICLE EH)

Anyway, I remember a fading story of nuclear air to air missiles, cruise missiles launched form subs in the fifties, some weird and wonderful infantry weapons, and forgotten Soviet hardware. (I still am in the dark about the fifties and sixties Shukoi series, which was extencive, infact more Shukoi models were produced than Migs)!

also, tanks like the T/54 seem interesting, I know the t/55, it's a classic prototype for the t'62, 72 and the 80, and possibly even the t'90, although that tank has features miles away from the t'55, but what was the 54???

Unfortunately I am at my relatives in Britain, so I cant look at the net for pictures of these 'forgotten cold warriors' on this pc, but please give more examples, and pictures on anything, from pistols, to nuclear missiles.

Mr Poundr.
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  #2  
Old 20 Jun 05, 19:42
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I have been subscribe to Flight Journal for years and I have to re-subscribe again in few weeks while I'm saving up some money for few magazine subscribe like ACG, Air Classic, Warbirds International, and Aviation History. I still enjoy reading Flight Journal, including Flight Journal Special Issue.

Anyway, there is a quite few fighters/bombers (Propeller to Jets, Biplanes to Missiles) that remained forgotten today and it's a shame that most Military aircraft (Past to Present) remained forgotten.

For more information about Douglas A-3 Skywarrior:

http://www.a3skywarrior.com/
http://www.globalsecurity.org/intell/systems/ea-3.htm
http://www.air-and-space.com/skywarrior.htm (Images)

About Republic F-84 Thunderjet....

The Thunderjet fighter does not have two engine and just only one (Allison J35 4,900 Ibs thrust). Unlike the Sabre fighter, it was used primarily for low-level interdiction missions. During in Korean Conflict, the Thunderbolt attacked enemy railroads, bridges, supply depots and troop camps with bombs (2,000 Ibs), rockets (8 x 5 Inches) and napalm.

What's so special about Republic F-84 Thunderjet?

The Thunderjet became the first USAF jet fighter able to carry a tactical atomic weapon.

For more information about Republic F-84 Thunderjet:

http://home.att.net/~jbaugher1/p84.html
http://www.strategic-air-command.com...thunderjet.htm

Hope you enjoy look these site, Nelson.
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  #3  
Old 22 Jun 05, 11:23
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Like anything else, the photos, the articles and the history references go to the military nmachines with the highest "Hollywood" factor, the most dashing and glamorous.

Lots of early and interim fighting machines that gave excellent service sit quietly in the forgotten corridors of history, remembered only by those who served in them.
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  #4  
Old 22 Jun 05, 15:20
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The A-3 was another Ed Heinemann design.
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Old 23 Jun 05, 18:38
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Thanks a lot mountainman! great sites! I just love those old planes, just like the early Shukois, or the De Havilland Vampire, and Victory, all of Britains V nuclear deterrent from the fifties.

By the way, what else did this man design???

Was he the legendary man who designed the P-38, then the Shooting Star (was that the F-80)?, Then I'm not shure but he was instrumental in the Blackbird, the fastest in regurlar use jet even today!

And capped off his career, as one of the first guys who figured out the f-117 stealth figher in the seventies before retiring!

Amazing career, and seconded only in Britain by Sidney Camm, who started on a biplane, and got it just right in time for the Hurricane wich was instrumental in the Battle of Britain as two thirds of the RAF fighers in that most crucial of battles.

Went on to have a hand in at least the somewhat forgotten late war RAF figher the Tempest, a plane that was amongst the fastest prop fighers in ww2, then did some early jet desings, and his swan song was the sixties work on the Harrier, which is still among us.

I know there was a similar man in the USA, who's work I already listed, but if it's the same man as you mentioned I just cannot remember.

Anyway, seminal men all of them, truely heroic designers the lot!
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  #6  
Old 15 Jul 05, 17:46
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one of the forgoten wepon is the 45
so i think
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Old 15 Jul 05, 18:08
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What differences exist between different A-3 models other than the bodies?
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Old 15 Jul 05, 19:38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by C.M. Ansley
What differences exist between different A-3 models other than the bodies?
Most of the differences are internal depending on the role. The most obivious A-3 body is the the ECM bird.

Here is the RA-3


The KA-3 had a belly refueling probe.



The TA-3 was used to train ECM officers.


And the Orginal vanilla Whale.


Hopes this helps!
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Old 15 Jul 05, 19:51
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Mr Pounder, might you be thinking of Kelly Johnson of U2, A12/SR71 fame?


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Old 18 Jul 05, 15:57
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Many weapons systems appeared on the radar screen all too briefly and then faded away - some due to their inferior performance, others because they were obsolescent or obsolete at the time of their IOC or shortly after, others because of the appearance of countermeasures soon after IOC.

B-36 Peacemaker

B-47 Stratojet

B-58 Hustler

B-1B Lancer

Though the B-1 has, in fact been used in operational service, its service life has been plagued by a multitude of problems, including problems with FOD (foreign object damage) with its low-slung engines, and various issues with its avionics suite. Also, as originally built, the B-1 was configured for nuclear weapons carriage only, a shortcoming that kept it out of the first Persian Gulf War. A later, and quite expensive, retrofit addressed this issue. A current debate of the B-1's future is ongoing, and it is likely that it will be retired before the B-52, more than 20 years its senior.

M-31/50 Honest John SSM

Though it did see nearly a 30 years service life, the Honest John was a product of the era which saw Mutually Assured Destruction (MAD) as a viable nuclear doctrine, and tactical nuclear weapons as desirable weapon systems. It is worth noting that, in some cases, the blast radius of some weapons was greater than their range!!

M-247 Sgt York DIVAD

A poster child for cost overrun and deficient functionality, the M-247 was obsolete almost from the time it was on the drawing board. The most glaring deficiency was the DIVAD's inabilitiy to track low0flying targets. Intended to replace the M-163 Vulcan AA gun system and the M-48 Chapparal SAM, the system was cancelled in 1986, after 50 vehicles had been built.
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Old 18 Jul 05, 16:03
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Any one have pictures of the B-36 and B-47?
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Old 18 Jul 05, 23:20
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Here you go, Charlie (CM)

B-36 Peacemaker



B-47 Stratojet



http://www.edwards.af.mil/gallery/im.../b47-1_300.jpg - Big Image of B-47 take off.
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Old 18 Jul 05, 23:33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by C.M. Ansley
Any one have pictures of the B-36 and B-47?
My Grandfather was a B-36 and B-47 Pilot, I need to scan some of the pictures he gave me, I sot some of them being Intercepted near their Fail Safe point by Soviet intercepters, and a bunch of ones of B-47s at Homestead and in Lybia.

I come from a long line of SAC warriors (well 2) I mean I learned to read at Loring AFB and I graduated high school from Minot High, you don't get more SAC then that

And I had to go off and be a M1 Tanker....
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Old 18 Jul 05, 23:42
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I'd have to say one is the M60A2 "Patton Spaceship" It is quite possibly the worst Tank the US produced ever, and defenetly of the Cold War. My very first 1SG in the Army had the misfortune of being a crewman on one of those god awful tanks. He would tell the company story after story if someone ever complained about their M1A1 fire control system breaking.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...ound/m60a2.htm
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Old 19 Jul 05, 06:12
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Stryker,

I wonder if some escaped the scrapyard? I have seen them used on military displays a few years back. The main trouble was the Shillelagh missile system. The Cannon fired the missile and a 152 mm cannon shell. The M409 Heat round only reached out to 1000 yards, but the missile had a minimum range of 1250 yards. This created a dead zone of 250 yards where you could not defend yourself. The missile also dropped from line of sight until it got to 1250 and you could not see it to guide it.

On Sheridans the main gun round would destroy the gun missile guidance system about every third round and the laser range finder everytime. I sincerely hope there was not a similar problem on the M-60, but maybe your old Ist Sargeant knows?

Pruitt
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