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| American Age of Formative Expansion 1789-1830 To begin with the 1st US President & extend through the Whiskey Rebellion, Quasi War with France, War of 1812, & southeastern Indian wars, |
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01 Apr 05, 16:08
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Real Name: Brian Denison
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 227
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eyewitness at the battle of Trafalgar, another great read
www.nelsonsnavy.co.uk/Trafalger.html |
01 Apr 05, 17:03
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Real Name: Mim
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Oz
Posts: 1,421
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Really interesting links Brian ! Looking forward to reading those  Eyewitness accounts are extra fascinating. Cheers ! |
01 Apr 05, 18:05
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Real Name: Lance Williams
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Herndon, Va
Posts: 7,966
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In a one on one battle in 1812 there was no frigate in the world that could slug it out with a Joshua Humphrey's designed U.S. 44-gun "super frigate", that had more guns of a heavier caliber and greater range. Once the HMS Macedonian was with in range it was almost a foregone conclusion..........even if she had wanted to flee the USS United States was faster too.........
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Lance W.
Peace through superior firepower.
Last edited by Lance Williams; 01 Apr 05 at 18:10..
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01 Apr 05, 21:21
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ACG Forums Commanding Officer
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Real Name: Wes Harrison
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Quivera
Posts: 11,622
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I concur!
Of the 6, United States was well known to be the fastest of the vessels built to Joshua Humphreys design.
Pretty amazing for vessels framed based upon the structural elements of a particular type of barn that was then in use in the States.
Last edited by Admiral; 21 Dec 08 at 12:43..
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02 Apr 05, 12:39
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Real Name: Lance Williams
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Herndon, Va
Posts: 7,966
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Admiral
Of the 6, United States was well known to be the fastest of the vessels built to Joshua Humphreys design.
Pretty amazing for vessels framed based upon the structural elements of a particular type of barn that was then in use in the States.
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Admiral, I have never seen the claimed speeds for these ships. I would guess 12-13 knots in a stiff breeze. Am I in the ballpark?
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Lance W.
Peace through superior firepower.
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02 Apr 05, 14:57
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ACG Forums Commanding Officer
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Real Name: Wes Harrison
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Quivera
Posts: 11,622
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I must correct myself...
President was known to be the fastest.
Not United States.
Doh!
In 1815 she was also captured by a British Squadron - after conclusion of peace with England.
Last edited by Admiral; 20 Jul 08 at 06:26..
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02 Apr 05, 18:43
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Real Name: David
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Where you least expect
Posts: 3,551
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Admiral
President was known to be the fastest.
Not United States.
Doh!
In 1815 she was also captured by a British Squadron - after conclusion of peace with England.
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Did the Brits give her back?
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MountainMan: Political hypocrisy has been alive and well since the first politician emerged from the primordial slime and failed to evolve.
Bartholomew Wright, Carpenter extraordinaire
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02 Apr 05, 19:50
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ACG Forums Commanding Officer
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Real Name: Wes Harrison
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Quivera
Posts: 11,622
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No. American vessels of Live Oak were highly coveted by the British.
She sailed from New York on January 18, 1815, under Capt. Stephan Decatur, and the next day was captured by a squadron consisting of HMS Endymion, HMS Majestic, HMS Pomone, and HMS Tenedos.
USS President was taken by the Royal Navy, her lines drawn, and was eventually broken up at Portsmouth, England, in 1817 or 1818. Her fittings & timbers were wastefully scattered to the winds.
USS Chesapeake also suffered a similar fate following her defeat following a formal challenge by Captain Philip Broke of HMS Shannon. The term "Don't give up the ship" was coined by Captain Lawrence as he lay dying aboard USS Chesapeake - a victim of sharp shooters wisely placed in HMS Shannons tops. She did serve for a time, her lines were also drawn & then eventually she was sold & scrapped at a yard in Gosport, England in 1820. Her live oak was used to rebuild a flour mill in Wickham, a town approximately eight miles from Portsmouth. Today her timbers are still there in the Chesapeake Mill.
Their nominal speed was said to be 14 knots.
Last edited by Admiral; 02 Apr 05 at 20:04..
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03 Apr 05, 00:58
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Real Name: Brian Denison
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 227
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does any one know what the fate was to HMS Macedonian after we took her?
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03 Apr 05, 09:02
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ACG Forums Commanding Officer
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Real Name: Wes Harrison
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Location: Quivera
Posts: 11,622
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As a prize, she was purchased into the US Navy
She became USS Macedonian & served on until 1828 when she was broken up.
Following the battle with USS United States, the 2 ships lay alongside each other for more than 2 weeks while she was made sail worthy.
HMS Macedonian(38) was out weighed in broadside in the match having a broadside weight of 528 pounds to USS United States(44)864 pound broadside. Decatur had the advantage in range as well. 24 pounders to HMS Macedonians 18 pounders
She was dismasted - 3 - in the battle and suffered 104 casualties to 12 in her adversary. USS United States was by most description unscathed. Her worst damage - a small spar - was from the first salvo recieved from HMS Macedonian.
Last edited by Admiral; 03 Apr 05 at 09:22..
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03 Apr 05, 13:43
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Real Name: Lance Williams
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Herndon, Va
Posts: 7,966
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Admiral
She sailed from New York on January 18, 1815, under Capt. Stephan Decatur, and the next day was captured by a squadron consisting of HMS Endymion, HMS Majestic, HMS Pomone, and HMS Tenedos.
USS President was taken by the Royal Navy, her lines drawn, and was eventually broken up at Portsmouth, England, in 1817 or 1818. Her fittings & timbers were wastefully scattered to the winds.
USS Chesapeake also suffered a similar fate following her defeat following a formal challenge by Captain Philip Broke of HMS Shannon. The term "Don't give up the ship" was coined by Captain Lawrence as he lay dying aboard USS Chesapeake - a victim of sharp shooters wisely placed in HMS Shannons tops. She did serve for a time, her lines were also drawn & then eventually she was sold & scrapped at a yard in Gosport, England in 1820. Her live oak was used to rebuild a flour mill in Wickham, a town approximately eight miles from Portsmouth. Today her timbers are still there in the Chesapeake Mill.
Their nominal speed was said to be 14 knots.
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I wonder how the British could justify taking the ship during a time of peace? I guess they were looking for anything to sooth the ass whipping they got at the Battle of New Orleans........
__________________
Lance W.
Peace through superior firepower.
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03 Apr 05, 14:53
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ACG Forums Commanding Officer
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Real Name: Wes Harrison
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Quivera
Posts: 11,622
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Somewhat tongue in cheek...
What were we to do about it?
Defeat President & take her back?
An intersting dilema, har!
Her distruction so soon might have been diplomatically sound.
As much as is plain, They did not fit into the British Naval "Establisment Standards". Due their unique elements, fittings, size, ... logistic maintainance... they could not be repaired or maintained from the logisticaly standard supply of spares and stocks on station.
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05 Apr 05, 14:13
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Real Name: Lance Williams
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Herndon, Va
Posts: 7,966
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Admiral
What were we to do about it?
Defeat President & take her back?
An intersting dilema, har!
Her distruction so soon might have been diplomatically sound.
As much as is plain, They did not fit into the British Naval "Establisment Standards". Due their unique elements, fittings, size, ... logistic maintainance... they could not be repaired or maintained from the logisticaly standard supply of spares and stocks on station.
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Did the British incorporate any of the design features in any of their subsequent ships?
__________________
Lance W.
Peace through superior firepower.
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10 Apr 05, 10:34
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ACG Forums Commanding Officer
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Real Name: Wes Harrison
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Quivera
Posts: 11,622
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Rather than disrupt the "Naval Establishment"...
...and the lead time involved in naval planning & design, it is safe to say that they made at least a small wave in regard to naval tought. (future design)
I'm quite sure that when they kicked the tires & popped the bonnet on her... they found a few nuts & bolts that were of more immediate use, utility & easily manufactured by ships company.
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We must discuss John Wharton / Joshua Humphrey sometime!
Last edited by Admiral; 10 Apr 05 at 10:37..
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